There are several aspects of vitamin K’s biochemistry that suggest high doses could have adverse effects on our health:
- Vitamins E and K are broken down in similar pathways (Shearer, 2008). High doses of either one elicit an increase in these catabolic pathways by activating a common receptor known as the steroid and xenobiotic receptor (SXR) or the pregnane X receptor (PXR). As a result, high doses of one will elicit the destruction of the other. Thus, high-dose vitamin K could contribute to vitamin E deficiency.
- Second, a small portion of vitamin K is broken down to a compound known as menadione (Thijssen, 2006). Some of the menadione is used to synthesize MK-4, but high concentrations are toxic. We therefore conjugate a portion of the menadione to glutathione, the master antioxidant and detoxifier of the cell, and excrete the complex into our urine. High doses of vitamin K could therefore deplete glutathione. This would impair detoxification, and along with vitamin E depletion it would hurt antioxidant activity.
- High doses of vitamin K can inhibit bone resorption, which is probably the mechanistic basis by which 45 mg/day reduce fracture risk (Iwamoto, 2013). While bone resorption sounds like a bad thing, we need to use it every day to help our bones remodel themselves and adapt their structures to our lifestyles, and to keep blood levels of calcium within a precisely controlled range. We also use bone resorption to release osteocalcin into the blood, where it acts on multiple tissues to improve our metabolic and hormonal health (Ferron, 2007; Oury, 2013). Ironically, one of the benefits of vitamin K2 is to support proper production of osteocalcin, but high doses of the vitamin could hypothetically prevent us from using it. That would be expected to hurt blood sugar control, insulin sensitivity, our metabolic rate, and, in males, testosterone production.
I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that it is very dangerous and that one must drop all MK-4 supplementation.this is some extremely scary stuff, and many are using or recommending several milligrams of K2 (thousands of percent of the RDA) and same with vitamin E. do you think these supplements, along with even zinc and magnesium supplements should be totally eliminated? what about D3 supplements
Vitamin E and K interactions – a 50-year-old problem (Vitamin E and K interactions – a 50-year-old problem)
If I train monday wednesday friday, should I take k2 on training days and e on non-training days. How should I take them to avoid issues. I also take the other fat solublesI don't understand how you came to the conclusion that it is very dangerous and that one must drop all MK-4 supplementation.
The RDA is usually for the MK-7 form, which is in the microgram range.
One generally shouldn't supplement Vitamin E anyway and I don't know where you heard it being recommended multiple times on here.
Besides the study is from 2008 when a lot of understanding on it was not formed, and it is mostly hypothetical. I think a more modern study would be more relevent in showing the dangers.
Maybe just not taking Vitamin E and K2 on the same day. That's it.
I don't think Vitamin E supplementation is physiological honestly.
Eat it with a meal that has fat. Vitamin K in-general requires the most Fat, Vitamin E is second, Vitamin D is third and Vitamin A is last in-terms of fat needed for absorption and utilisation. So take K2 with a meal that has some fat.If I train monday wednesday friday, should I take k2 on training days and e on non-training days. How should I take them to avoid issues. I also take the other fat solubles
Can I take it with a meal that has 180g carbs, 75g fat, 72g protein? Do you think the randle cycle would be a problem here, I am 17? Should it be taken orally, I have heard of some people taking it topically? Also have you used gonadin?Eat it with a meal that has fat. Vitamin K in-general requires the most Fat, Vitamin E is second, Vitamin D is third and Vitamin A is last in-terms of fat needed for absorption and utilisation. So take K2 with a meal that has some fat.
Take it whenever you want, but I think on training days is a bit more useful for gains. (K2)
You don't need to take other fat solubles IMO
Several milligram doses of Vitamin K are typically used for therapeutic purposes. Masterjohn didn’t define what he meant by high doses but in that guide he previously talked about high dose as 45 mg as used in some clinical trials.this is some extremely scary stuff, and many are using or recommending several milligrams of K2 (thousands of percent of the RDA) and same with vitamin E. do you think these supplements, along with even zinc and magnesium supplements should be totally eliminated? what about D3 supplements
then share these new papers about about Vitamin K research.
CONCLUSIONIn summary, vitamins E and K appear to share the same metabolic pathways; the side chain of both are ω-hydroxylated, then undergo β-oxidation. Hypothetically, MK-4 is decreased in response to high hepatic α-tocopherol and, therefore, the most active form of vitamin K, MK-4, is depleted.
There are various possible mechanisms that could account for the decreased MK-4 concentrations. Vitamin E may interfere with formation of MK-4 from K1. K1 must be converted to MK-4 by truncation of its side chain to form menadione, followed by tail replacement with geranylgeranyl to form MK-4. The mechanism for the conversion of K1 to menadione is unknown, despite the recognition that menadione is an intermediate in the conversion of K1 to MK-4. Vitamin E may increase metabolic pathways and deplete all vitamin K forms. Clearly, more studies are needed.
The paper is from 2008 when a lot of things were still unknown about MK-4 conversation etc. as stated in the beginning of the paper.
But Vitamin K is?Maybe just not taking Vitamin E and K2 on the same day. That's it.
I don't think Vitamin E supplementation is physiological honestly.
I just comment never contributethen share these new papers about about Vitamin K research.
Manageable. and beneficial if K2 MK-4, Quinones are a bit different and often useful if supplemented or eaten. Vitamin E is kinda meh, haven't really found a reasonable source aswell outside of Nuts and Avocado.But Vitamin K is?
Have you used gonadinI just comment never contribute
Manageable. and beneficial if K2 MK-4, Quinones are a bit different and often useful if supplemented or eaten. Vitamin E is kinda meh, haven't really found a reasonable source aswell outside of Nuts and Avocado.
Why does the meal have so much Fat?Can I take it with a meal that has 180g carbs, 75g fat, 72g protein? Do you think the randle cycle would be a problem here, I am 17? Should it be taken orally, I have heard of some people taking it topically? Also have you used gonadin?
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