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kiran said:I think he has, but I can't remember where exactly.
IIRC, He believes that there's no such thing as a placebo effect, and the sugar/salt which are usually used as placebo are actually beneficial of their own right. Hence cures due to "placebo".
kiran said:I think the idea is that using an isotonic salt injection can be beneficial in and of itself. Hence placebo can make people feel better. If it were a sugar pill, the sugar itself can have benefits and so on.
Well, sham surgeries would likely increase stress hormones which can have beneficial effects(at a cost).Rayser said:So I agree that the placebos themselves might have beneficial effects (I remember Ray Peat saying so, too). But that would not explain (for instance) sham surgeries.
In one study (1), the response to a placebo increased from 44% to 62% when the doctor treated the patients with "warmth, attention, and confidence." Expectancy effects have been found to occur with a range of substances. Those that think that a treatment will work display a stronger placebo effect than those that do not, as evidenced by a study of acupuncture.(2)
...
When you think about it this way, the placebo effect is nothing more than proof of the power of our mind. I think that was the point Ray Peat wanted to make: That to treat the body and neglect the mind would be neglecting human (or animal) nature.
Rayser said:How would surgery have beneficial effects?
Apart from anesthetics and the fact that 80% oxygen are used during most surgeries, you have a tissue trauma to heal, muscle loss from the recovery time and the higher infection risk in a hospital.
I don't see any physiological reason for that idea.
Am I missing something?
Rayser said:How would surgery have beneficial effects?
Apart from anesthetics and the fact that 80% oxygen are used during most surgeries, you have a tissue trauma to heal, muscle loss from the recovery time and the higher infection risk in a hospital.
I don't see any physiological reason for that idea.
Am I missing something?
j. said:Rayser said:How would surgery have beneficial effects?
Apart from anesthetics and the fact that 80% oxygen are used during most surgeries, you have a tissue trauma to heal, muscle loss from the recovery time and the higher infection risk in a hospital.
I don't see any physiological reason for that idea.
Am I missing something?
Stresss in some situations can have beneficial effects for unexplained reasons. The stress of life, the book by Hans Selye gives many historical examples. He believes it mobilizes the body's defenses and can benefit, but it can also backfire, and in the long run continuous stress is always bad.
kiran said:For example, corticosteroids like prednisone are used to treat allergic reactions, cancer, etc. Adrenaline is used to treat asthma.
No doubt even a sham surgery would raise a lot of stess hormones, and can potentially treat some conditions.
Asimov said:I think the best way to think of a placebo is a treatment unto it's self with a very high rate of biological return for a very low rate of chemical interaction, probably meditated by the mind/body interaction in the patient's own body. If .001 gram of sugar in a "sugar pill" is making someone self report 30% increase in mood......then we've got a helluva return on investment there. Let's just shut our mouth's and wait til the luck runs out.