Does Methylene Blue Increase Methylation?

[PakPik]

Hello!
I wonder if anyone knows if methylthioninium chloride (A.K.A methylene blue) increases methylation, and if so, at what dosages it would exert that effect. I read someone claiming methylene blue donates methyl groups and increases methylation, that's why I would like to have some clarification on this (I'm trying to avoid overmethylation). Thank you.

Using Methylene Blue As A Brain Fog Treatment
"You must understand that methylene blue, apart from all its other wonderful healing effects, directly effects the body's methylation cycle in a very positive way. That means that it will improve glutathione production thereby improving the body's detox capabilities, increases methyl transferase production, regulates dopamine and norepeniphrine, regulates homocysteine, works as a primary antioxidant, helps to prevent aberrant gene mutations, increases energy and does a whole host of other critical jobs in the body. MB works this way because it increases methyl groups in the body. The methyl group is the key organic molecule that is the primary building block for all organic life forms.

When I had a quick look at the Methylene Blue molecule I saw that it had not one but three methyl groups on its outer ring. It also contains sulfur, always useful for the body. That also makes methyene blue a prime donator of methyl groups in the body. This is hugely important. Most people know how important certain nutrients are like Vitamin C, B Vitamins, bioflavinoids, minerals etc. But few people really understand the detrimental effects of both under- or over-methylation in the body."

"If you take too much MB and this causes you anxiety or you cannot sleep then just take larger dose niacin -- 500 mgs. The niacin is a methyl sink that will remove any excess methyl groups from the body and relax you whenever this is needed. Niacin, at higher dosage, has also frequently been used for anxiety disorders and mental disorders for similar reasons due to over-methylation problems or due to blocked methylation pathways."​

 

[nullredvector]

In my experience it has extremely similar effects as methylfolate

 

[kiran]

@nullredvector How much are you taking.

 

[nullredvector]

@nullredvector How much are you taking.

I was taking up to 32mg at one point. I couldn't afford to continue, and I'm glad I found methylene blue did about the same thing. If I could I might try again.

 

[StrongMom]

Hello!
I wonder if anyone knows if methylthioninium chloride (A.K.A methylene blue) increases methylation, and if so, at what dosages it would exert that effect. I read someone claiming methylene blue donates methyl groups and increases methylation, that's why I would like to have some clarification on this (I'm trying to avoid overmethylation). Thank you.

Using Methylene Blue As A Brain Fog Treatment
"You must understand that methylene blue, apart from all its other wonderful healing effects, directly effects the body's methylation cycle in a very positive way. That means that it will improve glutathione production thereby improving the body's detox capabilities, increases methyl transferase production, regulates dopamine and norepeniphrine, regulates homocysteine, works as a primary antioxidant, helps to prevent aberrant gene mutations, increases energy and does a whole host of other critical jobs in the body. MB works this way because it increases methyl groups in the body. The methyl group is the key organic molecule that is the primary building block for all organic life forms.

When I had a quick look at the Methylene Blue molecule I saw that it had not one but three methyl groups on its outer ring. It also contains sulfur, always useful for the body. That also makes methyene blue a prime donator of methyl groups in the body. This is hugely important. Most people know how important certain nutrients are like Vitamin C, B Vitamins, bioflavinoids, minerals etc. But few people really understand the detrimental effects of both under- or over-methylation in the body."

"If you take too much MB and this causes you anxiety or you cannot sleep then just take larger dose niacin -- 500 mgs. The niacin is a methyl sink that will remove any excess methyl groups from the body and relax you whenever this is needed. Niacin, at higher dosage, has also frequently been used for anxiety disorders and mental disorders for similar reasons due to over-methylation problems or due to blocked methylation pathways."​

What are over methylation symptoms? Anxiety? Anything can cause anxiety. When I take MB, it increases my appetite. If you do not take it with food, it might make you anxious or give you insomnia.

 

[PakPik]

What are over methylation symptoms? Anxiety? Anything can cause anxiety. When I take MB, it increases my appetite. If you do not take it with food, it might make you anxious or give you insomnia.

I was planning to include methylene blue in my treatment plan but since it probably increases methylation, I've changed my mind -that's why I'd like to have some clarification on the issue-. This doesn't have anything to do with food or symptoms, just trying to avoid excess methylation.

 

[Elephanto]

Why does this person know all these "attributes" about methylene blue that have never been proved in studies or cited in textbooks ? People can say what they want on the internet, you should question everything especially when a bunch of "new" information never shown elsewhere appear in a single paragraph.

edit : Especially people that believe in the over/under methylation theory tend to rationalize everything to this one aspect as a mean of self validation. I think this is the case with this person's take on methylene blue but I remain open if there is any proof of all these attributes.

 

[Dasgeistes]

Hello, That is a question I come bearing for long time
Does MB increases methylation?

After more than a year of experimenting with this compound I tend to say YES.
For example MB gives me some side effects, it produces me dysuria and if I take a dose of 60 mg (a normal dosage according to the 0.5 - 4 mg/kg schedule) it produces me a continous and painful erection when I'm sleeping, the erection goes away only after going to pee (blue pee of course).

However in the past, the first doses or after a long time of not taking the compound, MB produces a wonderful effect of oxgyneation, happines and energy.

So whats my hypothesis?... well I don't have genetic testing, but perhaps I've a tendency to "hypermethylation", and MB when accumulates in my body it changes the methylation pattern to a more hypermethylation state, so it intensifies an overmethylation condition, and If I understood well, overmethylators tend to have some genes switched off... so I think that if you are an overmethylator, MB will increase that condition and it will not produce good effects because some important genes that MB activates will be off.

So whats the solution? a medium Niacin dose of 500 mg could be a good way for start with this....
Another interesting anecdote is that when I take MB with alcohol, the effects of MB are better and I tend to have less side effects... but why? well alcohol reduces methylation.

I will start to take MB with 200 mg of Niacin in a glass of Red Wine :).

If some person that is reading this post has a genetic test result, well try to experiment with this, I'm not in USA and in my country genetic testing is so expensive, but I've the intuition that MB works so weird in me for a methylation condition...

What could be another "DIY" test for methylation problems? 50 mg of Niacin does not produces me a flush.... Could SAM-e works for methylation DIY test?

 

[PakPik]

Thanks for your input @Dasgeistes . I still am avoiding methylene blue due to that possible risk, that's why I wished someone versed in biochemistry would clarify. I have been working on normalizing excess methylation, so I try to be careful.

 

[Such_Saturation]

lol everytime something has "methyl" in its name, this pops up. By the way, red wine has tyramine and methylene blue is a monoamine-oxidase inhibitor.

 

[Travis]

Apparently methylene blue does leave a few methyl groups behind as it leaves the body:

MB is excreted in the urine as a mixture of MB, leucoMB and demethylated metabolites, e.g., azure B and azure A

Article: Lest we forget you — methylene blue . . . Neurobiology of Aging Journal

Azure B is monodemethylated, and azure A is didemethylated. Another interesting quote from the article:

Among other things, they found that, in contrast to MB, azure B was capable of protecting 10 out of 10 mice from experimentally-induced endotoxic shock

Interesting. We all want to avoid endotoxic shock!

As an aside, while I was reading about the redox potential of methylene blue, I wondered if it could differentially stain cancer cells, since cancer cells supposedly have an aberrant electron transport chain. I did a search and found this:

Staining should be performed in a darkened room. If all due precautions are observed, normal tissue appears blue, malignant tissue red.

Differential Cytophysiological Diagnosis of Cancerous and Normal Tissues

That pretty much proves that the Szent-Gyorgi theory of cancer is true IMO. Not that I would doubt that Nobel Prize winner that discovered Vitamin C, and basically mapped most of the Citric Acid Cycle.

 

[PakPik]

Thanks @Travis ! I appreciate your taking the time to share your findings. Although I don't know if taking methylene blue on smallish doses like just a couple of milligrams would donate a significant amount of methyl groups, I am erring on the side of caution. Of the many supplements I have successfully tried (even at huge doses), methylene blue is one of the few that doesn't convince me (for healing purposes, that is; it may be good for acute/brief situations or certain infections like malaria, etc...). When I've used it it feels it is more damaging than healing; it may or may not have to do with epigenetics, I am not really sure.

Regarding its potential for the treatment of shock, I have come across papers where it either helps or worsens the outcome of sepsis. Some authors concluded that depending on which stage of the sepsis process the methylene blue is administered, it can be beneficial or detrimental. I think this is important to keep in mind.

 

[Dasgeistes]

Methylene Blue in the low dose range (0,5 - 4 mg/kg) does not produce a significant inhibition to MAO-A, not like old anti-depressants.

Well, MB is a strange compound, it apparently accumulates in tissue, if I take it for 3 days, and then stop it, my urine will be blue/green for other two days.

If some has a genetic test for methylation, and is sure that is undermethylator, MB should improve the symptoms, with overmethylation MB should be detrimental.

This is my secod day of MB with red wine and 200 mg of Niacin, results:
I feel my circulation is working better.
In recent weeks I felt some pain in the legs, and legs too cold, now I feel better, corporally I feel good, much less pain.

This could be just placebo, I will continue testing to see if I feel better I'm taking a glass of wine with 30 mg of MB and 200 mg of Niacin.

 

[Dasgeistes]

So if you methylation problems its better to take Azure B?

 

[Travis]

I came across a passage in my Gilbert Ling book today about methylene blue:

Similarly, dyes like eosin and methylene blue adsorb onto deoxyribonucleic acid, bringing about a sharp change in viscosity on exposure to light.

And so I read this too: Cellular and Molecular Actions of Methylene Blue in the Nervous System, which provides a good summary on methylene blue.

I would dismiss out of hand any in vitro study on methylene blue that wasn't carried out with filtered light or in the dark. Methylene blue absorbs light at 665 nm and undergoes photoexitation into single and triplet states. Any study of this compound under normal light will lead to chemical reaction that would otherwise not occur. Oncologists are recently learning how to exploit this fact. They inject methylene blue into a tumor and then irradiate it with light, exiting methylene blue and leading to uncontrolled electron transfer. See
Methylene blue-mediated photodynamic therapy enhances apoptosis in lung cancer cells.

But in the absence of light, it doesn't have such extreme reactivity of course. It has been used successfully in the treatment of malaria, the restoration of mitochondrial respiration in cyanide poisoning, and as the go-to treatment in Methemoglobinemia; a condition in which the iron atom in hemoglobin is missing an electron and binds oxygen too tightly, preventing its' efficient utilization.

 

[haidut]

lol everytime something has "methyl" in its name, this pops up. By the way, red wine has tyramine and methylene blue is a monoamine-oxidase inhibitor.

I know, right? And people forget that pretty much all steroids that Peat write about favorably have a few methyl groups in the molecule. Just because something has a methyl group does not mean it will donate it. Caffeine is another methyl-rich molecule and I am not aware of any reports that it increases methylation.

 

[Ras]

For anyone seeking Azure B: nyles7.

 

[PakPik]

lol everytime something has "methyl" in its name, this pops up.

I know, right?

Frequently, out of the dumbest of the questions asked come the most valuable insights and learning.

This is my secod day of MB with red wine and 200 mg of Niacin, results:
I feel my circulation is working better.
In recent weeks I felt some pain in the legs, and legs too cold, now I feel better, corporally I feel good, much less pain.

I'm glad you're feeling better. I personally have experienced great vascular and general benefits from Vitamin B3 (the niacinamide form).

But in the absence of light, it doesn't have such extreme reactivity of course.

Thanks for the observation. I am not versed on those topics, but I'm aware that light interacts very powerfully with methylene blue. I avoid sunlight when I have applied topically.

 

[haidut]

Frequently, out of the dumbest of the questions asked come the most valuable insights and learning.


I'm glad you're feeling better. I personally have experienced great vascular and general benefits from Vitamin B3 (the niacinamide form).


Thanks for the observation. I am not versed on those topics, but I'm aware that light interacts very powerfully with methylene blue. I avoid sunlight when I have applied topically.

Agreed, I did not mean to sound like I am mocking the questions. It was more of a surprise at the knee-jerk reaction a lot of people seem to exhibit when they hear about methylated compounds. I think the heavy promotion of the methylfolate and that gene test for over/undermethylation is partially responsible.

 

[PakPik]

I did not mean to sound like I am mocking the questions.

The way you responded to the other poster sounded exactly like that -since his immediate response was a LOL-. But thanks for clarifying. We're free to answer how we deem it appropriate.