Does it have to be orange juice?

Dr. B

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the thing is, nothing compares nutritionally to orange juice. like compare 4 cups of OJ to 4 cups of apple juice on cronometer. it's not even close. other fruit juices are fine but it becomes harder to get all your vitamins and such unless you make a good effort to do so
it seems tough to get folate without OJ, milk and liver. vitamin C is also tough
 
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it seems tough to get folate without OJ, milk and liver. vitamin C is also tough
Leaves can be high in folate and provide some vitamin C too. Spinach and mustard greens are my main sources right now. They come with a hefty dose of vitamin K as well.

the thing is, nothing compares nutritionally to orange juice. like compare 4 cups of OJ to 4 cups of apple juice on cronometer. it's not even close. other fruit juices are fine but it becomes harder to get all your vitamins and such unless you make a good effort to do so
True. Apple juice sadly doesn't have much nutrition. It's still good for calories and antioxidants. Grape juice is nice, but organic grape juice is ultra expensive, and the non- organic one has very concerning levels of fluoride. It makes fluoridated water pale in comparison.
 

Nomane Euger

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Leaves can be high in folate and provide some vitamin C too. Spinach and mustard greens are my main sources right now. They come with a hefty dose of vitamin K as well.


True. Apple juice sadly doesn't have much nutrition. It's still good for calories and antioxidants. Grape juice is nice, but organic grape juice is ultra expensive, and the non- organic one has very concerning levels of fluoride. It makes fluoridated water pale in comparison.
Hi Rafael,did you notice any difference in any aspect of your health eating leaves?
 

Nighteyes

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I have been making fresh melon juice from Honey dew melons lately. It is quite nutritious and a great alternative to orange juice. It doesnt have that acidic feeling orange juice has and hence probably much more gentle on the teeth. Great stuff
 

Mauritio

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I consume big amounts of apple juice. Especially when I have gut problems I tolerate it much better than orange juice .
When I have sinus issues I feel OJ makes it worse , apple juice not.
 

Dr. B

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Leaves can be high in folate and provide some vitamin C too. Spinach and mustard greens are my main sources right now. They come with a hefty dose of vitamin K as well.


True. Apple juice sadly doesn't have much nutrition. It's still good for calories and antioxidants. Grape juice is nice, but organic grape juice is ultra expensive, and the non- organic one has very concerning levels of fluoride. It makes fluoridated water pale in comparison.

oh yes i forgot spinach has a lot of those nutrients. the K is all K1 right. i think they are high in beta carotene as well. think Ray said leaf protein and nutrients are similar to milk just not as bioavailable for humans
 

michael94

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oh yes i forgot spinach has a lot of those nutrients. the K is all K1 right. i think they are high in beta carotene as well. think Ray said leaf protein and nutrients are similar to milk just not as bioavailable for humans
I think even the oxalate in spinach can have a "calcium toning" effect. Very unscientific I know. Ray is mainly against greens because he put them in a bag to test out how they putrefy. It might be ok to eat some (not just the broth) if your appetite for them is significant and they will be digested relatively well. Then they wont be sitting around for too long. its not like milk is always perfect either
 

Nomane Euger

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I think even the oxalate in spinach can have a "calcium toning" effect. Very unscientific I know. Ray is mainly against greens because he put them in a bag to test out how they putrefy. It might be ok to eat some (not just the broth) if your appetite for them is significant and they will be digested relatively well. Then they wont be sitting around for too long. its not like milk is always perfect either
can you expand on ray experience with greens ?and what did you mean by "calcium toning effect"?
 

michael94

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can you expand on ray experience with greens ?and what did you mean by "calcium toning effect"?
He put lettuce in a bag and it putrefied really nasty, I guess in comparison to other things. So hes not a big fan of raw salads. I have noticed similar with bagged Kale I left in the fridge for too long
 

Nomane Euger

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He put lettuce in a bag and it putrefied really nasty, I guess in comparison to other things. So hes not a big fan of raw salads. I have noticed similar with bagged Kale I left in the fridge for too long
So he assumed that it will putrefied as nasty in our guts?and what about your « calcium toning »feeling/experience?
 

Dr. B

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I think even the oxalate in spinach can have a "calcium toning" effect. Very unscientific I know. Ray is mainly against greens because he put them in a bag to test out how they putrefy. It might be ok to eat some (not just the broth) if your appetite for them is significant and they will be digested relatively well. Then they wont be sitting around for too long. its not like milk is always perfect either
i thought he is against them due to the anti nutrients present, and maybe the fiber and digestion but didnt he recommend boiling greens in a pot, and then drinking the water from them but tossing the greens? for magnesium and other nutrients. also in one of his articles he said leaf protein is some of the best but humans just cant properly digest it like cows do.
 
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Hi Rafael,did you notice any difference in any aspect of your health eating leaves?
Hi, Nomane.

Yes, I noticed that my hip joint is feeling a lot better. It would crack and kinda of dislocate a little, especially after walking a lot. I've had this problem for a long time( since I was a child), but after I started eating leaves( focusing on the ones that have a lot of vitamin K, like spinach, over the ones that have little of this vitamin, such as chinese cabbage), the hip joint is feeling much more stable. It barely cracks now, and I don't feel it dislocating anymore. I guess I've been deficient in vitamin K for a long time, that's why I noticed a big improvement like that.

Another evidence that I was very deficient is that I would bleed a lot after getting a cut or after eating something that was rough for the intestines. Now, any bleeding quickly coagulates.

The only side-effects is I'm a bit more bloated, but if I cook the leaves well, they don't worsen the bloating that much. Anything makes me bloated anyway. I have no complaints in terms of leaf digestion though. They are quite easy to digest if they are cooked( outside of kale, which for some reason I cannot digest well at all). Also, I noticed that too much spinach( much more than 200 grams a day) gives me a burning sensation in my cankle, which I think is caused by oxalates. So I try to keep the spinach at ~100 grams per day, and the rest is usually mustard greens, and that works well.

oh yes i forgot spinach has a lot of those nutrients. the K is all K1 right. i think they are high in beta carotene as well. think Ray said leaf protein and nutrients are similar to milk just not as bioavailable for humans
Yes, it's all K1( phylloquinone). There was a thread with an interesting discussion with regards to whether or not it is good( K2 Mk4 Or Mk7? ). I believe Ray himself thinks vitamin K in general is good, whether from liver or leaves or fermented foods( cheese). And yeah, the protein in them is of good quality, but it's very hard to use it as a source of protein( 2 or 3 pounds a day to get a significant amount of protein).

The beta- carotene content is indeed high, and some people have trouble with ingesting a lot of carotene, especially if the conversion to retinol isn't very good. There are other leaves that have less carotene, like amaranth leaves and dandelion greens, I just don't eat them because those aren't common where I live.

He put lettuce in a bag and it putrefied really nasty, I guess in comparison to other things. So hes not a big fan of raw salads. I have noticed similar with bagged Kale I left in the fridge for too long
I noticed this with mustard greens. They tend to go bad pretty easily, but arugula and spinach last much longer without smelling IME.
 

michael94

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i thought he is against them due to the anti nutrients present, and maybe the fiber and digestion but didnt he recommend boiling greens in a pot, and then drinking the water from them but tossing the greens? for magnesium and other nutrients. also in one of his articles he said leaf protein is some of the best but humans just cant properly digest it like cows do.
Yes he recommends making a broth from the greens for the calcium/magnesium etc. Ive done so with Kale several times but never tried it with Spinach. The broth felt like too much liquid for me at the time
 

gaze

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@michael94 @Rafael Lao Wai any idea if vitamin k gets into the broth water? the obvious answer would be no because it's fat soluble, but if the fats are liquid at high temperatures, is it possible the small amount gets into water?
 
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@michael94 @Rafael Lao Wai any idea if vitamin k gets into the broth water? the obvious answer would be no because it's fat soluble, but if the fats are liquid at high temperatures, is it possible the small amount gets into water?
One study about boiling spinach to lower oxalate content said the amount of vitamin K didn't change in the leaves after it was boiled( for 10 minutes). The spinach did get smaller because it lost water and that's why cooked spinach has more K than the same amount of uncooked spinach. I don't know if lengthy boiling could extract a significant quantity of it into the water.

One interesting thing is that I do see some fat globules on top of the water I used to cook my greens. Ray said he tries to skim this bit of fat off his vegetable broth, since it's mostly PUFA. You would think the vitamin K would be contained in this fat that comes out, but, considering that cooked greens have more of it than uncooked ones, I guess the loss into the water is minimal.
 

Dr. B

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@michael94 @Rafael Lao Wai any idea if vitamin k gets into the broth water? the obvious answer would be no because it's fat soluble, but if the fats are liquid at high temperatures, is it possible the small amount gets into water?

thats K2 which is fat soluble. im not sure K1 would be fat soluble. because K1 is found in high amounts in mostly zero/very low fat foods... whereas K2 MK4 is found in animal fats. K2 MK7 i believe is in fermented foods. i think when people are talking fat soluble its only referring to K2 MK4. K1 probably isnt fat soluble and MK7 may not be fat soluble either. maybe eating with more fats would encourage conversion of K1 to K2? not sure
 

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