Does coconut oil kill bacteria or not?

Dr. B

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Ray cautions against proteins and rightly so, but that shouldn't keep one from trying things he cautions against. If I heeded every caution and deprive myself of the intake of some of these substances, I may deprive myself of the benefits they offer. Peanuts as potentially allergenic and anaphylaxic isn't keeping me from enjoying peanuts - only because I know I don't have those reactions.

Ray Peat may also be a person prone to allergies to proteins in plants, and so he is disposed to be cautious about them and to tell people to exercise more caution than I would practice myself.

For example, he cautions coconut milk for its protein content, but I've been eating coconut curry for a long time, and I've been eating grated mature coconut meat to accompany native Filipino desserts, and I haven't experienced any allergy. Then again, my ancestors may have gotten used to it, or I may have become adapted to it by being acculturated to it growing up.

But it could be I came from a time and place where my immune system isn't as much tampered with my vaccines that make a lot of Americans, millenials down, hypersensitive.

how often do you enjoy peanuts and why? I dont personally enjoy peanuts. I like peanut butter, and even that, I like mixed with chocolate, a PB ice cream, pb jelly sandwich etc.
are you saying you didnt use many vaccines so your immune system is tampered with?
also it just seems to be that basically all of the so called allergic substances, still cause some level of inflammation in people who arent allergic to them. milk and eggs are on the list but i think its due to them being fed allergens or grain foods. like peanuts, and soy have phytoestrogens. corn has inflammatory issues... wheat has its issues along with the nuts...
 

Dr. B

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What about the talk that the long chain fats can reduce tight junctions and compromise gut health?
Some say if you are TH2 dominant, you should not use coconut oil, that it will increase allergies. Apparently, there are some studies out there. Actually, coconut allergy, per se, is rare, but the way it affects the gut is the controversy.
i have seen some people claim its the isolated strains of coconut oil like MCTs that cause gut issues. ive seen others claim the coconut oil gut issues are actually bacterial die off in the gut. im not sure what the truth is. is coconut oil beneficial if you have a low pufa diet...? peats article seemed to imply he actually lost weight even though he added a tablespoon or more coconut oil a day!
 

yerrag

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how often do you enjoy peanuts and why? I dont personally enjoy peanuts. I like peanut butter, and even that, I like mixed with chocolate, a PB ice cream, pb jelly sandwich etc.
are you saying you didnt use many vaccines so your immune system is tampered with?
also it just seems to be that basically all of the so called allergic substances, still cause some level of inflammation in people who arent allergic to them. milk and eggs are on the list but i think its due to them being fed allergens or grain foods. like peanuts, and soy have phytoestrogens. corn has inflammatory issues... wheat has its issues along with the nuts...
I dont seek out peanuts but eat them and get addicted once I begin eating.

I've been vaccinated but not to the extent that post-Reagan American children have been increasingly poisoned with over the years.

It matters that we avoid the food that have been altered that the body doesn't take to well. Wheat and corn has been changed to make it more commercially viable but cause them to more allergenic. Still, we become more sensitive to these allergenic substances when our metabolism is low and we have less energy to overcome them.
 

Dave Clark

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The article you linked to lambasts coconut oil and long chain saturated fats and extols PUFAs. How credible could that author be?
There are other articles and studies about that coconut oil issue. I honestly just grabbed the first article I could find addressing it, and didn't read through it. If they think PUFAs are good, then they are certainly mistaken on that subject. I am not necessarily a big fan of her, but this is comprehensive info regarding the subject:
 

Dr. B

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I dont seek out peanuts but eat them and get addicted once I begin eating.

I've been vaccinated but not to the extent that post-Reagan American children have been increasingly poisoned with over the years.

It matters that we avoid the food that have been altered that the body doesn't take to well. Wheat and corn has been changed to make it more commercially viable but cause them to more allergenic. Still, we become more sensitive to these allergenic substances when our metabolism is low and we have less energy to overcome them.
im not sure what ray thinks of sprouted wheat flour but the only starch he likes is nixtamalized corn! he said potatoes are allergenic but have very good protein.

There are other articles and studies about that coconut oil issue. I honestly just grabbed the first article I could find addressing it, and didn't read through it. If they think PUFAs are good, then they are certainly mistaken on that subject. I am not necessarily a big fan of her, but this is comprehensive info regarding the subject:

why does coconut oil cause leaky gut is this something all saturated fats do? how do PUFA/MUFA impact leaky gut... do they improve it or worsen it?
 

Rasaari

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C8, C10 and C12 have all potent antimicrobial properties. For example google "lauric acid antibacterial" and you will find many studies.

For example:

Measuring the Antimicrobial Activity of Lauric Acid against Various Bacteria in Human Gut Microbiota Using a New Method​

"showed that LA has low antimicrobial activity against lactic acid bacteria, but not Bacteroides and Clostridium. These results suggest that LA might contribute to intestinal health, as confirmed by the proposed method. "

Antibacterial activity of Lauric Acid on Some Selected Clinical Isolates
"This study establishes the fact that lauric acid has antibacterial effect on Gram positive bacteria more compare to the Gram-negative bacteria. This however recommends that lauric acid beneficially be used in treating some of the microbial infections caused by some gram positive bacteria."

The 1-monolaurin inhibit growth and eradicate the biofilm formed by clinical isolates of Staphylococcus epidermidis

"The 1-monolaurin can inhibit growth and eradicate the biofilm formed by clinical isolates of S. epidermidis, however, it has neither inhibit nor kill planktonic cells of S. epidermidis."

Highly enhanced bactericidal effects of medium chain fatty acids (caprylic, capric, and lauric acid) combined with edible plant essential oils (carvacrol, eugenol, β-resorcylic acid, trans-cinnamaldehyde, thymol, and vanillin) against Escherichia coli O157:H7​


If you combine olive oil with essential oil, such as oregano oil, you can get pretty potent antibacterial effects, if you are able to get it to the bacteria. Some shredded carrots mixed with tsp of olive oil and 2-4 drops of oregano oil is quite potent in my experience, at least for small intestine. Lauric acid seems to outweigh the effect of carvacrol in this last study while caprylic and capric acids seem to enhance it.
 

yerrag

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There are other articles and studies about that coconut oil issue. I honestly just grabbed the first article I could find addressing it, and didn't read through it. If they think PUFAs are good, then they are certainly mistaken on that subject. I am not necessarily a big fan of her, but this is comprehensive info regarding the subject:

So she's saying that LPS increases in the blood after taking coconut oil. And she says that this could be because coconut increases gut permeability, allowing more LPS into the blood stream.

Maybe.

But I also think that if I took a strong antibiotic and that antibiotic does an effective job of destroying gram negative bacteria in the gut, a lot of LPS would end up also in the blood stream. But does this mean that the gut has become more permeable because of the increase in serum LPS?

I suspect the ghost writers for the medical-industrial complex are behind this sleight-of-hand. Anything they can do to muddy up the pig sty further.
 

Dr. B

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So she's saying that LPS increases in the blood after taking coconut oil. And she says that this could be because coconut increases gut permeability, allowing more LPS into the blood stream.

Maybe.

But I also think that if I took a strong antibiotic and that antibiotic does an effective job of destroying gram negative bacteria in the gut, a lot of LPS would end up also in the blood stream. But does this mean that the gut has become more permeable because of the increase in serum LPS?

I suspect the ghost writers for the medical-industrial complex are behind this sleight-of-hand. Anything they can do to muddy up the pig sty further.
didnt someone else post on here saying all saturated fats increase LPS/endotoxin? maybe due to this anti bacterial effect?
 

Dave Clark

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didnt someone else post on here saying all saturated fats increase LPS/endotoxin? maybe due to this anti bacterial effect?
That was what I had seen myself. I just wonder if the whole coconut oil/saturated fat thing regarding gut permeability is dependent on the amounts consumed. When the whole coconut oil craze blew up, people are gobbling multiple tablespoons/day, and I just wonder if that is not the problem. As opposed to consuming coconut oil by cooking with it, and/or eating it by means of consuming coconut food itself. Even Ray says, I believe, that he doesn't eat coconut oil straight, but cooks with it. And, then you have the bullet proof coffee craze and body builder craze where people are putting MCT oils into everything, treating them like a carbohydrate food. I believe there may be some truth to these studies, but I think there are variables where coconut oil does not have to be a problem if used judiciously. There are many good things about coconut oil, otherwise Ray would not be so big on it, but we have to use it wisely I think. Not much different than other saturated fats, don't go overboard.
 

reaching

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Ray was asked about monolaurin in an interview but it has since been taken down. Does anyone remember what he said?
 

yerrag

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That was what I had seen myself. I just wonder if the whole coconut oil/saturated fat thing regarding gut permeability is dependent on the amounts consumed. When the whole coconut oil craze blew up, people are gobbling multiple tablespoons/day, and I just wonder if that is not the problem. As opposed to consuming coconut oil by cooking with it, and/or eating it by means of consuming coconut food itself. Even Ray says, I believe, that he doesn't eat coconut oil straight, but cooks with it. And, then you have the bullet proof coffee craze and body builder craze where people are putting MCT oils into everything, treating them like a carbohydrate food. I believe there may be some truth to these studies, but I think there are variables where coconut oil does not have to be a problem if used judiciously. There are many good things about coconut oil, otherwise Ray would not be so big on it, but we have to use it wisely I think. Not much different than other saturated fats, don't go overboard.
I think people who overdose on anything are just dumb. After all, anything good becomes bad. Even drinking too much water will cause hyponatremia, although I won't call marathon runners dumb the first time they go into hyponatremia. But those who overdose on VCO -yes.

But that aside, it would be very deceptive for experts and journalists to miscast a healthful product by intentionally misleading people into becoming afraid of using a substance by not presenting cause and effect relationships in its entire context. If they're honest, they can say that VCO shouldn't be taken in excess because while it kills bacteria in the gut, the effect of the LPS from the dead bacteria could become very high and would lead to endotoxemia.

Even without endotoxemia, too much VCO may have other effects as well. I only base this on my observation in my koi pond, but my suspicion that too much coconut oil could lead to fungal problems got stronger last week when a koi would die of fungal infection. My initial suspicion was from seeing pieces of coconut flesh beside the pond become moldy, and since I feed my koi coconut flesh, I began to think that maybe I should lessen the amount of coconut flesh fed, or clean the pond more often (I had began to not clean my pond filter, and found that because I don't feed carbs anymore, the pond and filter doesn't require much mechanical cleaning). But I must have reached a limit in my laxity in pond cleaning, and the accumulated waste, while not causing any bacterial infection, was now starting to show signs that it may usher in a fungal infection stage. But I'm just saying this to underscore the need to not go into excess with anything, no matter how good you think it is.

I learned about the bad effect of carbs accumulating in my pond filter - bacterial infection. I was able to apply what I learned to my colon, making an analogy of my pond filter to my large intestine. And it made me understand more why I don't want to feed my gut with too much carbs, and with too much fiber for microbes to grow fast on, and for needing to have fast transit times. I've also learned that the coconut flesh that becomes part of the bottom waste in my filter keeps the waste from developing a bacterial colony. I think that it has a lot to do wit the antibacterial effect of coconut oil that is in the coconut flesh. However, I felt there is an element of "this is too good to be true" going on, so I was already ready to see some downside. And the downside came in the form of an developing fungal growth in the pond.

This is "Perceive. Think. Act" at work. Truly, we have to do this to better our health, More so than relying on experts to make conclusions for us from billion dollar experiments that have less of our health in mind than the profits of their sponsors.
 

Dave Clark

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I think people who overdose on anything are just dumb. After all, anything good becomes bad. Even drinking too much water will cause hyponatremia, although I won't call marathon runners dumb the first time they go into hyponatremia. But those who overdose on VCO -yes.

But that aside, it would be very deceptive for experts and journalists to miscast a healthful product by intentionally misleading people into becoming afraid of using a substance by not presenting cause and effect relationships in its entire context. If they're honest, they can say that VCO shouldn't be taken in excess because while it kills bacteria in the gut, the effect of the LPS from the dead bacteria could become very high and would lead to endotoxemia.

Even without endotoxemia, too much VCO may have other effects as well. I only base this on my observation in my koi pond, but my suspicion that too much coconut oil could lead to fungal problems got stronger last week when a koi would die of fungal infection. My initial suspicion was from seeing pieces of coconut flesh beside the pond become moldy, and since I feed my koi coconut flesh, I began to think that maybe I should lessen the amount of coconut flesh fed, or clean the pond more often (I had began to not clean my pond filter, and found that because I don't feed carbs anymore, the pond and filter doesn't require much mechanical cleaning). But I must have reached a limit in my laxity in pond cleaning, and the accumulated waste, while not causing any bacterial infection, was now starting to show signs that it may usher in a fungal infection stage. But I'm just saying this to underscore the need to not go into excess with anything, no matter how good you think it is.

I learned about the bad effect of carbs accumulating in my pond filter - bacterial infection. I was able to apply what I learned to my colon, making an analogy of my pond filter to my large intestine. And it made me understand more why I don't want to feed my gut with too much carbs, and with too much fiber for microbes to grow fast on, and for needing to have fast transit times. I've also learned that the coconut flesh that becomes part of the bottom waste in my filter keeps the waste from developing a bacterial colony. I think that it has a lot to do wit the antibacterial effect of coconut oil that is in the coconut flesh. However, I felt there is an element of "this is too good to be true" going on, so I was already ready to see some downside. And the downside came in the form of an developing fungal growth in the pond.

This is "Perceive. Think. Act" at work. Truly, we have to do this to better our health, More so than relying on experts to make conclusions for us from billion dollar experiments that have less of our health in mind than the profits of their sponsors.
Something I found interesting, if not disheartening, is that coconut and coconut oil is something that is supposed to be anti-fungal, I am guessing due to the caprylic and lauric acid, yet I have experienced coconut getting moldy, and one time I actually opened a jar of coconut oil that had mold growing on it {the jar was well within expiration date}. If the anti-fungal effects are real, then why would coconut even get moldy. I read somewhere on here where Ray said that he didn't prefer coconut flour because some products were known to have mold/mycotoxins, etc. So, I am not so sure I believe the anti-fungal claims of coconut/oil. I go to oil of oregano to treat fungus or mold, very effective for that issue. I still use and love coconut oil, but I have leaned more to grass-fed butter, olive oil, macadamia nut oil, cacao butter, etc., and I limit the amount of coconut I use.
 

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