Does Cascara Suppress The Immune System?

Regina

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
6,511
Location
Chicago
That's a good point too. I was hoping that Theranos (or a similar company) would launch their fingerprick tests nationwide and then I could run a lot of these tests on myself. I have always wanted to see the effects of some foods, alcohol, herbs, vitamins, etc on some biomarkers within the first 24 hours of exposure. But that hope has been dashed, so not sure what else can be done to see the real effect of emodin on the immune system. If anybody has suggestions I'd love to hear them. Again, I think that if emodin is not effecting somebody in a good way then they should stop taking it. No need to "push through" because a study says some stuff is always good for you. There are certainly cases where emodin can be dangerous. Since it is a powerful 11b-HSD1 inhibitor, in people with low cortisol it can drive it low enough to trigger fainting or even seizure (both due to hypoglycemia). But I am hoping those cases are rare on the forum.
Once again, thank you so much for your responses Haidut!!!
I don't think my rat is having negative responses to taking the cascara capsules.
It sure would be great to be able to track the various pro and anti-metabolic markers as we learn from our rat's experiences.
I am keeping a neutral mind about how to think about cold/flu-like symptoms.
I put 4 drops of metergoline on my rat since I last posted and had her take an aikido class. She coughed a few times but enjoyed class and had a lot of mat energy. She sang along in the car home feeling worked out but refreshed and liking her new training environment. Indeed, one of the rat's partners said , "whoa, maybe a little less caffeine before training?!?" He was laughing; it wasn't snarky.
This same rat had gone to bed last night with the idea that it caught the cold/flu bug going around Chicago. The rat slept in and felt sorry for itself most the day. But such_saturation's brief missive re serotonin perked her experimental curiosity to snap out of it. C'mon rat, how would you feel with less serotonin?
ha, well for whatever that update was worth....:think: :mytwocents (maybe less) :drinkingbuddies

I find I am guilty of thread bleed (cascara => metergoline) but, at the same time, everything seems to be pointing to the same thing. I apologize for getting off-topic.
 
Last edited:
B

Braveheart

Guest
By all means, emodin can cause side effects. Not disagreeing at all with this. In fact, St. Gyorgi has a quote somewhere on this forum that quinones are too powerful to be used for regular respiration and plants use them mostly ad anti-bacterial and anti-parasitic compounds. So, using a compound like that when a person has an infection can certainly cause side effects. I think this can be seen on most people taking antibiotics - they all seem to get some level of Herzheimer reaction:
Jarisch–Herxheimer reaction - Wikipedia

So, emodin, like all powerful chemicals/drugs needs to be used with caution and if the person does not feel it is helping then it should not be used. But it is important to know if it is emodin causing immune issues and that is why I suggested the WBC test.

Emodin can cause irritation to the intestine but it is rare and it depends on the dose. Keep in mind that emodin is a such a powerful anti-viral that was (and still is) considered as treatment for HIV, Ebola, and some nasty neurological herpes infections. So, I don't know why you think it's the emodin causing these flu like symptoms when most studies (including the Native Americans who used it the most) use it exactly for preventing/treating viral infections. There are a million things that can cause such symptoms and unless you have a blood test that showed clearly emodin lowered your WBC then we have no idea really what caused it, and whether it is really flu or something else.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,783
Location
USA
It might be more clear if the title of this thread reflected a question rather than a statement that makes it sound like, well, what it says.
I think that to people who haven't read the thread, this could be missleading. Maybe I'm the only one.
 

Mauritio

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
5,669
I have been taking activated charcoal and cascara for some time. Quite pleased with the results i have to say: AC seems to lower serotonin and calm me down before sleep and cascara makes me more happy and gets rid of brain fog.
Casacara does seem to increase serotonin though . I am not sure it could also be symptoms of supressed liver . I become puffy , look more bloated start loosing hair a lot , hair also becomes dry and frizzy and my metabolism seems to slow down.
I would guess cascara irritates the gut. Does it help to take it with food . I am taking 450 mg per day. Would love to continue taking it, but will stop if the serotonin symptoms wont go away...
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,783
Location
USA
It "seems to increase serotonin". Doesn't fit with Ray's research. But, what brand are you using? It's been a while since I looked into cascara, but I do recall that it needs to be aged, and that there is a good product from Italy...
 

Mauritio

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
5,669
It "seems to increase serotonin". Doesn't fit with Ray's research. But, what brand are you using? It's been a while since I looked into cascara, but I do recall that it needs to be aged, and that there is a good product from Italy...
it doesnt do it per se , i think it irritates the gut ,which releases serotonin.
 

Owen B

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
310
Dave Foster found a study showing that steady use of cascara caused some kind of spots to occur in the intestines. Sorry I can't remember more but I seem to recall that the gist of the article was that it was not serious. But a lot of people report - including me - that steady use of it causes it to stop working.

Lapodin does not lose it's effectiveness for me but I only use a couple of drops orally 2-3 times a week. And it's a old bottle, maybe a year and half old. Taking Lapodin from a new bottle was very, very strong. Too much. I could only take it topically. It's very invigorating.

But I've stopped taking cascara. I have an unopened bottle in the closet.
 

Kyle970

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2022
Messages
153
Location
United States
I think it does, definitely never felt immune boosting. Used cascara for many years.
What are some good alternatives: triphala, rhubarb, any others out there?
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,783
Location
USA
Notes from Ray Peat:

Emodin, in cascara, blocks various things in lung cancer, and its laxative effect helps to lower nitric oxide, histamine, and serotonin.

The bulk powder from Farmalabor in Italy is the kind I like best, but US Customs can cause problems with that. Naturlich Kost Co-op, 4260 TR 628, Millersburg, OH. 44654, sells it mixed with glycerine, which is o.k.

I think cascara's most important effect is the reduction of the pro-inflammatory nitric oxide, which poisons mitochondrial energy production. Raw carrot or bamboo shoots can sometimes have a similar effect by reducing NO synthesis.

Emodin​

It's hard now (since the FDA's anticascara action) to find a standardized aged cascara product, but Western Botanical and (in Italy) Farmalabor are two sources that I know of. (Naturlich Kost Ko-op in Millersburg, Ohio, has cascara, but I think FDA is currently preventing them from doing business.) The Chinese rhubarb products are probably standardized, but I have never used them. An amount slightly less than a laxative dose has beneficial systemic effects.

Fibrous foods such as bamboo shoots and laxatives such as cascara help to reduce the absorption of bowel toxins that promote cancer and burden the liver.


Milk of magnesia is very safe, but cascara has many protective biological effects.

Emodin, in cascara, blocks various things in lung cancer, and its laxative effect helps to lower nitric oxide, histamine, and serotonin.

Many more mentions of benefits from cascara here:

 

Kyle970

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2022
Messages
153
Location
United States
@Birdie thank you very much for the reminders, I will try a little MOM and the bamboo shoots again.
I get histamine and irritation from cascara, possibly an allergy, mast cell, infection? Read it can lower potassium, not great for my situation. Used various forms-powders, teas, brands like Health natura, starwest etc. Find the only things that give me relief is typical antianflamatories, antihistamines, or fasting- I don't like the side effects from those and hoping to find a better route. Think cascara is a great herb for most but definitely not good for whatever immunity/irratation thing I have going on.
Description:

Obviously, in the very swollen, structurally deformed intestine, with almost no lumen, neither a stimulant nor a simple fibrous bulk could restore functioning, because even with stimulation the smooth muscle is unable to contract, and the closed channel won’t admit bulk. Even gas is sometimes unable to pass through the inflamed intestine. Mechanical thinking about the intestine fails when inflammation is involved; now that inflammation is known to play an important role in Alzheimer’s disease and heart disease, it will be more acceptable to consider its role in constipation.


The contractile ability of smooth muscle, that’s impaired by swelling and inflammation, can be restored by antiinflammatory agents, for example aspirin (or other inhibitor of prostaglandin synthesis) or antihistamine.
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,783
Location
USA
@Birdie thank you very much for the reminders, I will try a little MOM and the bamboo shoots again.
I get histamine and irritation from cascara, possibly an allergy, mast cell, infection? Read it can lower potassium, not great for my situation. Used various forms-powders, teas, brands like Health natura, starwest etc. Find the only things that give me relief is typical antianflamatories, antihistamines, or fasting- I don't like the side effects from those and hoping to find a better route. Think cascara is a great herb for most but definitely not good for whatever immunity/irratation thing I have going on.
Description:

Obviously, in the very swollen, structurally deformed intestine, with almost no lumen, neither a stimulant nor a simple fibrous bulk could restore functioning, because even with stimulation the smooth muscle is unable to contract, and the closed channel won’t admit bulk. Even gas is sometimes unable to pass through the inflamed intestine. Mechanical thinking about the intestine fails when inflammation is involved; now that inflammation is known to play an important role in Alzheimer’s disease and heart disease, it will be more acceptable to consider its role in constipation.


The contractile ability of smooth muscle, that’s impaired by swelling and inflammation, can be restored by antiinflammatory agents, for example aspirin (or other inhibitor of prostaglandin synthesis) or antihistamine.
Yeah. I don't think we can even get a good cascara. I could be wrong. And, as you say, not for everybody anyway. I'm not using it.

I have IBS so need to stay un-constipated. Also, I have to never overeat as that will set off a horrible attack. I've been using a tablespoon of Milk of Magnesia. It's not an absolute answer but @ecstatichamster , I think uses it and said how he gets some magnesium that way. Helps me when I try to eat melon and cooked squash.

I think working on the inflammation sounds like a very good idea. Sometimes antihistamines can be awfully drying so I go easy using them occasionally for short periods.
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom