Does Biotin Cause Fatty Liver, Esp. With Thiamine?

[naftaep]

In Nutrition for Women (p. 50) Peat mentions that biotin is known to cause fatty liver and so must be taken with inositol. This seemed curious to me, since advice on this forum had suggested that biotin will help reverse fatty liver. A quick google search yielded this article--http://www.jbc.org/content/141/2/619.full.pdf--according to which mice fed huge amounts of biotin, especially in conjunction with thiamine gained liver fat as well as overall body weight. Peat also mentioned that choline can reverse the effects of biotin--but not according to this article.

I hope someone more scientifically literate than myself might have some idea what to do about this (assuming its validity): stop taking biotin (~1.5/2 grams) and thiamine (~300 mg)? Take them separately? Add inositol? If so, how much? Is it safe to to take so much biotin in the long-term or is more of a short-term fix?

 

[haidut]

In Nutrition for Women (p. 50) Peat mentions that biotin is known to cause fatty liver and so must be taken with inositol. This seemed curious to me, since advice on this forum had suggested that biotin will help reverse fatty liver. A quick google search yielded this article--http://www.jbc.org/content/141/2/619.full.pdf--according to which mice fed huge amounts of biotin, especially in conjunction with thiamine gained liver fat as well as overall body weight. Peat also mentioned that choline can reverse the effects of biotin--but not according to this article.

I hope someone more scientifically literate than myself might have some idea what to do about this (assuming its validity): stop taking biotin (~1.5/2 grams) and thiamine (~300 mg)? Take them separately? Add inositol? If so, how much? Is it safe to to take so much biotin in the long-term or is more of a short-term fix?

From the study:
"...Preliminary experiments showed t’hat biotin would not cause fatty livers unless other B vitamins were supplied. The effect of the known B vit’amins upon the activity of biotin was investigated. Acutely fatty livers were not produced unless thiamine, riboflavin, pantot’henic acid, and pyridoxine were supplied with biotin. In the absence of thiamine there was no evidence of fat synthesis."
"...The fatty livers were characterized by a high content of cholesterol. The effect of biotin was prevented by simultaneously feeding egg white, lipocaic, or inositol. It is concluded that beef liver fraction owes its activity to its content of biotin."


Btw, the study does not list biotin doses in mg so I can't calculate how much biotin was ingested. They are also saying that beef liver extract also has a liver-fattening effect, which is quite the opposite of what I have seen used clinically or read about. Peat also recommends eating liver for correcting liver issues. Also, their definition of fattening is increasing cholesterol, which I am not sure is that bad.
Overall, given the human studies showing biotin lowered trig, cholesterol, and FFA I would like to see some human data backing this study up before I start getting alarmed.
Also, Peat's views have changed a bit over the years. There are things in some of his earlier books that are not quite Peat-y. In one book he says that PUFA are bad but essential so it is necessary to eat them moderation. I am pretty sure he has moved a great distance away from that earlier view. So, the biotin issue could be similar. Maybe somebody can ask him directly...

 

[naftaep]

Thanks, Haidut. The bottom of the first page of the article mentions that the animals were supplemented with 10 mg of biotin; no idea what the human equivalent would be....So I'll continue with the biotin (at least until I keel over from FLD!).

 

[haidut]

Thanks, Haidut. The bottom of the first page of the article mentions that the animals were supplemented with 10 mg of biotin; no idea what the human equivalent would be....So I'll continue with the biotin (at least until I keel over from FLD!).

No, the 10mg is for choline. Biotin is listed as 5 gamma, which I have no idea what it stand for.

 

[tyw]

No, the 10mg is for choline. Biotin is listed as 5 gamma, which I have no idea what it stand for.

This is an old unit for micro-grams (search for "gamma to micro grams conversion" to confirm this). So the dose of biotin was 5 µg.

While this is a fairly normal oral dosage you find in supplements, the biotin in the study was injected straight into the bloodstream.

Also note that this is in mice, which would result in substantially higher biotin serum concentration per unit mass of biotin used (human equivalent doses would be much higher)

Injecting biotin into humans definitely increases bioavailability -- Bioavailability of biotin given orally to humans in pharmacologic doses

^^ The last cited study used really really high doses of biotin (5-20 mg which is at least 1,000x the amount of the study that started this thread). At the 5mg dose, oral biotin bioavailability seemed to drop compared to intravenous delivery, though at higher doses, presumed bioavailability was the same. I only say "seemed to drop" and "presumed bioavailability" because what the researchers measured was urinary excretion -- there is no guarantee that the biotin is being used, and what for, only that it didn't exit the body after 24 hours.

....

 

[tyw]

As for fatty liver, if you believe in this study, then the key B-vitamin to prevent fatty liver with Biotin is Riboflavin (Vit B3)

See table 2, fourth column from the Left:

The does of Riboflavin here was 20 micro-grams, compared to the 5 micro-grams of biotin. We will assume the 4:1 ratio for comparison.

I have no stake in IdeaLabs but Energin is basically a 12:1 ratio of Riboflavin to Biotin. Is that safe? If you believe this study, then yes.

...

 

[PowertothePeatple]

I find this very confusing. So is it unwise to supplement extra biotin if you are taking a b-vitamin complex? Will it cause fatty liver?

 

[haidut]

I find this very confusing. So is it unwise to supplement extra biotin if you are taking a b-vitamin complex? Will it cause fatty liver?

I personally don't think it causes fatty liver. In human studies biotin has been used to actually lower plasma trigs, cholesterol, and reverse NAFLD. The study in mice is also a bit misleading. I think they found increased cholesterol in the liver as a result of biotin and considered that a "fatty liver".

 

[jb116]

As for fatty liver, if you believe in this study, then the key B-vitamin to prevent fatty liver with Biotin is Riboflavin (Vit B3)

See table 2, fourth column from the Left:

View attachment 3023

The does of Riboflavin here was 20 micro-grams, compared to the 5 micro-grams of biotin. We will assume the 4:1 ratio for comparison.

I have no stake in IdeaLabs but Energin is basically a 12:1 ratio of Riboflavin to Biotin. Is that safe? If you believe this study, then yes.

...

riboflavin is B2

 

[tyw]

riboflavin is B2

Yup , mistake

 

[frannybananny]

In Nutrition for Women (p. 50) Peat mentions that biotin is known to cause fatty liver and so must be taken with inositol. This seemed curious to me, since advice on this forum had suggested that biotin will help reverse fatty liver. A quick google search yielded this article--http://www.jbc.org/content/141/2/619.full.pdf--according to which mice fed huge amounts of biotin, especially in conjunction with thiamine gained liver fat as well as overall body weight. Peat also mentioned that choline can reverse the effects of biotin--but not according to this article.

I hope someone more scientifically literate than myself might have some idea what to do about this (assuming its validity): stop taking biotin (~1.5/2 grams) and thiamine (~300 mg)? Take them separately? Add inositol? If so, how much? Is it safe to to take so much biotin in the long-term or is more of a short-term fix?

Now I am really confused. Are members saying that Thiamine makes fatty liver worse? I have recently been reading that many alcoholics with fatty liver are deficient in Thiamine or B-1 and it is recommended that they consume it to reverse fatty liver and symptoms?

 

[ddjd]

In Nutrition for Women (p. 50) Peat mentions that biotin is known to cause fatty liver and so must be taken with inositol. This seemed curious to me, since advice on this forum had suggested that biotin will help reverse fatty liver. A quick google search yielded this article--http://www.jbc.org/content/141/2/619.full.pdf--according to which mice fed huge amounts of biotin, especially in conjunction with thiamine gained liver fat as well as overall body weight. Peat also mentioned that choline can reverse the effects of biotin--but not according to this article.

I hope someone more scientifically literate than myself might have some idea what to do about this (assuming its validity): stop taking biotin (~1.5/2 grams) and thiamine (~300 mg)? Take them separately? Add inositol? If so, how much? Is it safe to to take so much biotin in the long-term or is more of a short-term fix?

thanks for posting this. I've read in other groups that people should avoid taking biotin before blood tests because it will throw results all over the place. From personal experience i suspect after reading this that biotin may have actually contributed to my fatty liver rather than helped reduce it.

 

[sweetpeat]

thanks for posting this. I've read in other groups that people should avoid taking biotin before blood tests because it will throw results all over the place. From personal experience i suspect after reading this that biotin may have actually contributed to my fatty liver rather than helped reduce it.

How much were you taking?

 

[Amazoniac]

if you believe in this study, then the key B-vitamin to prevent fatty liver with Biotin is Riboflavin

I didn't understand tyw's thought here. It's an exclusion table for the vitamins that were left out. It doesn't mean that giving both together is the solution, it means that depriving the one in question while biotin is given will have a certain effect on liver fat. All of them together can be used as reference to tell how each of them fared in relation; thiamine was responsible for the lowest figure, but this is because of it being a preliminary experiment for the substances that were tried next, the prevention of gain in liver fat can be for good or bad reasons.

@redsun, it's not on choline, but it might interest you.

 

[stsfut]

So, is thiamine (in excess) actually bad? I’m trying to reverse NAFL, and for the past few years I have been taking high doses of B1 (in combination with a B-Complex).

 

[Jessie]

So, is thiamine (in excess) actually bad? I’m trying to reverse NAFL, and for the past few years I have been taking high doses of B1 (in combination with a B-Complex).

I wouldn't think so, no. But unless you're trying to address a specific issue, there's really no need to supplement biotin daily, especially in big amounts.

I was experimenting with taking large doses (40mgs) of biotin daily to see if it improved glycogen retention. I actually had some success with it, but I discontinued the experiment due to really bad belching. It wasn't pure, I think it was the mannitol (used as a filler) in it giving me problems. Pure biotin is expensive.

If you want to reverse fatty liver focus on choline, about 2 grams daily. Daily usage of vitamin K2 and coffee will probably help as well. Small amounts of MCTs are helpful as well.

 

[YourUniverse]

I wouldn't think so, no. But unless you're trying to address a specific issue, there's really no need to supplement biotin daily, especially in big amounts.

I was experimenting with taking large doses (40mgs) of biotin daily to see if it improved glycogen retention. I actually had some success with it, but I discontinued the experiment due to really bad belching. It wasn't pure, I think it was the mannitol (used as a filler) in it giving me problems. Pure biotin is expensive.

If you want to reverse fatty liver focus on choline, about 2 grams daily. Daily usage of vitamin K2 and coffee will probably help as well. Small amounts of MCTs are helpful as well.

In defense of biotin supplementation, 40mg is a LOT. You did already say that, but yeah

 

[stsfut]

I wouldn't think so, no. But unless you're trying to address a specific issue, there's really no need to supplement biotin daily, especially in big amounts.

I was experimenting with taking large doses (40mgs) of biotin daily to see if it improved glycogen retention. I actually had some success with it, but I discontinued the experiment due to really bad belching. It wasn't pure, I think it was the mannitol (used as a filler) in it giving me problems. Pure biotin is expensive.

If you want to reverse fatty liver focus on choline, about 2 grams daily. Daily usage of vitamin K2 and coffee will probably help as well. Small amounts of MCTs are helpful as well.

one point of clarification, I was talking about thiamine not biotin. From the tables, it looked like thiamine was mainly at fault.

 

[Jessie]

In defense of biotin supplementation, 40mg is a LOT. You did already say that, but yeah

Yeah it was a large dose, you're essentially using it more like a actual drug then a supplement in those dosages. But it's well within reference range from the studies I've seen. The multiple sclerosis studies showed they took 300mgs of biotin daily for several months. I might try it again sometime with pure biotin that hasn't been adulterated. It noticeably increased my CO2 levels.

one point of clarification, I was talking about thiamine not biotin. From the tables, it looked like thiamine was mainly at fault.

Sorry about that. Yeah, that's the first I'm hearing about that. Maybe someone more informed on it then me could shed some light. Your liver actually uses thiamine to deactivate estrogen, so in theory it should help (not hurt) fatty liver. Long term dosing of thiamine hcl is usually very well tolerated, even in high dosage.