Does Ascorbic acid really decrease Ceruloplasmin?

[Makrosky]

There is no scientific proof of the vitamin C complex. Ascorbic acid is vitamin C. I would never put my faith in a snakeoil salesman.

"Within several weeks Szent-Györgyi had produced three pounds of pure crystalline ascorbic acid, enough to show — when fed to the vitamin C-deficient guinea pigs — that the acid was equivalent to vitamin C." Albert Szent-Gyorgyi Vitamin C - Landmark - American Chemical Society

No where can you find that other quote except on alternative health sites and store pages that are selling extremely highly priced "natural" vitamin C.

That being said I do agree that whole foods have substances with vitamin-like properties that we should keep on consuming. I use 4 grams of ascorbic acid a day for yrs. No gray hair or copper deficiency.

+1

 

[Makrosky]

There are hundreds? thousands? of pubmed studies demonstrating the effectiveness of Vitamin C in ascorbic acid form for a myriad of problems. And now some salesman say ascorbic acid is an empty shell. It has been used by Drs. like Cathcart to treat almost any kind of illness possible. Sorry, I am not swalling that up.

 

[GenericName86]

There are hundreds? thousands? of pubmed studies demonstrating the effectiveness of Vitamin C in ascorbic acid form for a myriad of problems. And now some salesman say ascorbic acid is an empty shell. It has been used by Drs. like Cathcart to treat almost any kind of illness possible. Sorry, I am not swalling that up.

I noticed immediate improvement with my gums when I used ascorbic acid which is good enough for me. I'm using the quali-c one that's been talked about on here a few times, I believe it's made in the uk and been very pleased with it.

 

[Makrosky]

I noticed immediate improvement with my gums when I used ascorbic acid which is good enough for me. I'm using the quali-c one that's been talked about on here a few times, I believe it's made in the uk and been very pleased with it.

Exactly the same for me. I use often pure quali C and can only say good things about it. You know... people have a lot of free time to spend coming up with crazy theories of all sorts and on the era of the internet you will find any kind of theory getting traction.

 

[Motif]

Ascorbic acid is not made from mold. It's possible someone is so sensitive they react to tiny amounts of impurities, but I was very sensitive when I started taking it (was living in mold) and only thing I experienced at first was headaches. I only mention it to be transparent because I've had no side effects at all ever since. To get the same effect from natural sources you'd be spending a ton of money and then you'd likely have phenol reactions from the berries. Those reactions suck. Just look up the feingold diet for kids which reduces high phenol foods to cure autistic like behavior.

thanks!

how much at once should be taken?
don’t you have to go to the toilet a lot over the day from 4 g?

 

[InChristAlone]

thanks!

how much at once should be taken?
don’t you have to go to the toilet a lot over the day from 4 g?

Many who first start react to less than 2 grams or for me at the beginning I needed 29 grams over the course of the day to finally have loose stool! My bowel tolerance is more like 12 grams now. Which is about avg for healthy people. Just have to find how much you can take.

 

[Motif]

Many who first start react to less than 2 grams or for me at the beginning I needed 29 grams over the course of the day to finally have loose stool! My bowel tolerance is more like 12 grams now. Which is about avg for healthy people. Just have to find how much you can take.

Are you taking that much ?
so the Body will get used to it and you won’t go that often later ?

how much at once can / should be taken ? All at once ?

 

[Dr. B]

Many who first start react to less than 2 grams or for me at the beginning I needed 29 grams over the course of the day to finally have loose stool! My bowel tolerance is more like 12 grams now. Which is about avg for healthy people. Just have to find how much you can take.

i started getting severe kidney pains and some painful urination symptoms like stones were forming, at 2g a day taken for too long. at 1.5g or less per day the symptoms went away and that seems to be the upper limit for me, to ensure i dont get kidney stones. i think the fda upper limit is 2 grams a day or something.

 

[InChristAlone]

i started getting severe kidney pains and some painful urination symptoms like stones were forming, at 2g a day taken for too long. at 1.5g or less per day the symptoms went away and that seems to be the upper limit for me, to ensure i dont get kidney stones. i think the fda upper limit is 2 grams a day or something.

Severe? Maybe it was actually breaking up a kidney stone that was already there. There is no proof ascorbic acid causes kidney stones. Also there has been no known toxic dose of ascorbic acid, it has never been achieved. Here is a post I made a yr or so ago:

A large study which concluded: "These data do not support an association between a high daily intake of vitamin C or vitamin B6 and the risk of stone formation, even when consumed in large doses."

And a study in women that concluded: "Vitamin C intake was not associated with risk. The multivariate relative risk for women in the highest category of vitamin C intake (> or =1500 mg/d) compared with the lowest category (<250 mg/d) was 1.06 (95% confidence interval, 0.69 to 1.64). Large doses of vitamin B6 may reduce the risk of kidney stone formation in women. Routine restriction of vitamin C to prevent stone formation appears unwarranted."

The concern is unwarranted. Basically don't dehydrate yourself while also using ascorbic acid. At most 1% could turn into oxalate. Furthermore doctors have reported no kidney problems with very high doses of ascorbic acid. Dr. Robert Cathcart says out of 25,000 patients he put on high doses he had never seen kidney stones. Only two showed kidney stones after decreasing dose to only 500 mg, after increasing it back up high again and adding mag and B6 the stones disappeared. Ascorbate increases urinary flow and thus crystals will not form. A squeeze of lemon with your vitamin C if you are stone former is prescribed by doctors to prevent stones. If you have very low kidney filtration then use caution.

 

[InChristAlone]

Are you taking that much ?
so the Body will get used to it and you won’t go that often later ?

how much at once can / should be taken ? All at once ?

I take 4 grams every morning, seems about the dose which helps with anxiety and things like that. You can take as high a dose as your bowels will allow. But some say spreading it throughout the day is better. I just didn't want it interacting too much with meals.

 

[Dr. B]

Severe? Maybe it was actually breaking up a kidney stone that was already there. There is no proof ascorbic acid causes kidney stones. Also there has been no known toxic dose of ascorbic acid, it has never been achieved. Here is a post I made a yr or so ago:

A large study which concluded: "These data do not support an association between a high daily intake of vitamin C or vitamin B6 and the risk of stone formation, even when consumed in large doses."

And a study in women that concluded: "Vitamin C intake was not associated with risk. The multivariate relative risk for women in the highest category of vitamin C intake (> or =1500 mg/d) compared with the lowest category (<250 mg/d) was 1.06 (95% confidence interval, 0.69 to 1.64). Large doses of vitamin B6 may reduce the risk of kidney stone formation in women. Routine restriction of vitamin C to prevent stone formation appears unwarranted."

The concern is unwarranted. Basically don't dehydrate yourself while also using ascorbic acid. At most 1% could turn into oxalate. Furthermore doctors have reported no kidney problems with very high doses of ascorbic acid. Dr. Robert Cathcart says out of 25,000 patients he put on high doses he had never seen kidney stones. Only two showed kidney stones after decreasing dose to only 500 mg, after increasing it back up high again and adding mag and B6 the stones disappeared. Ascorbate increases urinary flow and thus crystals will not form. A squeeze of lemon with your vitamin C if you are stone former is prescribed by doctors to prevent stones. If you have very low kidney filtration then use caution.

that doesn't seem possible, the pains would stop and restart dose dependently on ascorbic acid. there's hundreds if not thousands of online anecdotal experiences complaining of the same. it obviously is context dependent, from what I remember b6 helps break up certain types of kidney stones, and citric acid/citrate also helps break up kidney stones, so depending on your overall diet, it would affect how much ascorbic acid you can tolerate.

it also depletes copper and zinc, possibly calcium and other nutrients, and promotes non heme iron absorption. what do you mean by 'toxic dose' like a dose that would cause harm or a dose that would actually cause severe disease/death? If they had to add magnesium and b6 supplementation then the vitamin C still contributed to kidney stones. googling "ascorbic acid kidney stone" will bring up all kinds of links, both studies and anecdotes of the kidney stone like symptoms. there is no supplement or nutrient which doesn't have a toxic dose, not even vitamin k2, and also no vitamin/mineral which doesn't interact with others in some form.

I would be curious to see if anyone else is mega dosing vitamin C, how long they're megadosing it for, what the rest of their diet looks like and what the symptoms are. didnt Peat say his diet was officially zero vitamin C yet meat and milk was providing several grams of it in the dehydroascorbic acid form which isnt measured in tests.

 

[InChristAlone]

that doesn't seem possible, the pains would stop and restart dose dependently on ascorbic acid. there's hundreds if not thousands of online anecdotal experiences complaining of the same. it obviously is context dependent, from what I remember b6 helps break up certain types of kidney stones, and citric acid/citrate also helps break up kidney stones, so depending on your overall diet, it would affect how much ascorbic acid you can tolerate.

it also depletes copper and zinc, possibly calcium and other nutrients, and promotes non heme iron absorption. what do you mean by 'toxic dose' like a dose that would cause harm or a dose that would actually cause severe disease/death? If they had to add magnesium and b6 supplementation then the vitamin C still contributed to kidney stones. googling "ascorbic acid kidney stone" will bring up all kinds of links, both studies and anecdotes of the kidney stone like symptoms. there is no supplement or nutrient which doesn't have a toxic dose, not even vitamin k2, and also no vitamin/mineral which doesn't interact with others in some form.

I would be curious to see if anyone else is mega dosing vitamin C, how long they're megadosing it for, what the rest of their diet looks like and what the symptoms are. didnt Peat say his diet was officially zero vitamin C yet meat and milk was providing several grams of it in the dehydroascorbic acid form which isnt measured in tests.

Yep I know you can find many results searching vitamin C and kidney stones, but that doesn't prove causation. Some of the studies I read there were clearly confounding variables. I was concerned about the risk due to the myths circulating as well but after doing the research I am confident I'm not at any higher risk using ascorbic acid than the avg Joe. Plus my diet is fairly low in oxalates as it is which is the real cause of kidney stones.

Toxic dose as in lethal dose, you can't get to a lethal dose because it flushes through the bowels whenever you take too much. Plus even if you tried swallowing that much ascorbic acid you'd puke before you'd ever wind up in the ER. I've known people to get over serious infections using up to 100 grams over the course of many hours.

The user Rick K uses quite a bit a day for a long time and is doing great, here is one of his posts about it: Vitamin E 100-fold more potent than remdesivir for SARS-CoV-2 / coronaviruses

As far as Peat, yup he doesn't recommend vitamin C supps. But for me coming from severe stress it was a lifesaver. He, as far as I know, doesn't have kids didn't breastfeed for yrs and didn't live in a moldy house for years either.

 

[InChristAlone]

Another quote from him:
"That would be me also. 10+ grms daily for over 40 years. BP is 110/80. Constant woodies. I am 60."

 

[Jing]

Another quote from him:
"That would be me also. 10+ grms daily for over 40 years. BP is 110/80. Constant woodies. I am 60."

Do you take it all at once?

 

[Ben.]

Another quote from him:
"That would be me also. 10+ grms daily for over 40 years. BP is 110/80. Constant woodies. I am 60."

Speaking of him, haven't seen him around much for a while. Hope hes alright.

It is quite intriguing, vitamin c that is. For example this is also interesting:

My life is not an anecdote. When I was young I did boxing for several years, and could do jumping with a rope for 40 minutes straight non stop. So when in my early 30s I have developed varicose vains and could walk with my girlfriend only for 20 minutes and then I had to ask her to stop to make a rest, I felt very depressed. After the vitamin C megadose for several months I could walk and i did not feel the heaviness in my legs. after 20+ years since then I still don't have problems using my legs. I don't need an ultrasound.

Well my experience is different. I have got varicose veins on my legs many years ago. I began reading books and searching, and vitamin C looked promising to me. I remember that I bought vit C in capsules and took 15-21 grams daily divided in several doses. After 3-4 months my varicose veins disappeared. When I had varicose veins I had to stop after 20 minutes of walking. Now I am much older and I don't have to stop even when I walk an hour or a bit longer.

Twohandsondeck also reported alot of improvements with a high vitamin c dose.

Perhaps for some people a high dose for a few weeks/months can be enough to sort some stuff out? I'm kind of interested lately in ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid), among many things its interaction with vitamin c and e.

 

[InChristAlone]

Speaking of him, haven't seen him around much for a while. Hope hes alright.

It is quite intriguing, vitamin c that is. For example this is also interesting:






Twohandsondeck also reported alot of improvements with a high vitamin c dose.

Perhaps for some people a high dose for a few weeks/months can be enough to sort some stuff out? I'm kind of interested lately in ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid), among many things its interaction with vitamin c and e.

Good quotes! Yes I do believe you can eventually not need so much, but living in these strange times I don't see the harm just taking it once a day. It is very easily eliminated if we go over our needs unlike the fat solubles. Is ALA the one used for detoxing heavy metals? Other than that I don't know much about it.

 

[Lollipop2]

Speaking of him, haven't seen him around much for a while. Hope hes alright.

I have been thinking this as well. Hope he is well. Funny I can’t seem to tag him anymore.

 

[Motif]

But why do some people need that much C?

 

[InChristAlone]

But why do some people need that much C?

High histamine, heavy metal burden, oxidative stress, EMFs, etc.

 

[Motif]

High histamine, heavy metal burden, oxidative stress, EMFs, etc.

Will it longterm cure some of this? Heavy metals ? Not really, right ?