Does Anyone Get The Sense That Grain Carbs Provide A Different Kind Of Energy?

Peatogenic

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I don't mean caloric density, just that it feels like a different kind of energy compared to fruit or vegetable carbs.
 
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Peatogenic

Peatogenic

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I think Peatogenic is trying to draw line between grain starches and vegetable starches (potatoes/tubers)

Yes. And different in how it seems grain starches seem to last longer? It's a sense that vegetable starches or fruits are wasted, in a sense....like they aren't stored as well or something.
 

oldmanthunder

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Grains have a decent amount of b vitamins (especially yeasted products) and minerals like zinc and selenium so they’re a good source of carbs if you can digest them properly.
 

jet9

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Yes. And different in how it seems grain starches seem to last longer? It's a sense that vegetable starches or fruits are wasted, in a sense....like they aren't stored as well or something.

So you are saying that grains give you more lasting energy ? Could you clarify which grains do that ? (wheat, oats ? )
 
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Peatogenic

Peatogenic

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So you are saying that grains give you more lasting energy ? Could you clarify which grains do that ? (wheat, oats ? )

Yes, wheat. I haven't had oats in a while, but I'd suspect the same.
 

Waremu

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Yes. And different in how it seems grain starches seem to last longer? It's a sense that vegetable starches or fruits are wasted, in a sense....like they aren't stored as well or something.

I have never really noticed better energy when I ate grains. Maybe sour dough bread was an exception, or purely sprouted grain bread, but as far as starches are concerned, potatoes actually seem to give me the best and most sustained energy. Grains give sustained energy, but the digestive issues that usually come with them for me offsets any benefit. The thing I love about potatoes is that they're heavy enough to sustain you/your energy and keep you satiated, but they're not so heavy that they seem to take too long to digest before you want to eat another small meal. And this is the issue for many athletic people like me who eat 4-5 small meals spread throughout the day. (This is also why white rice and beef or chicken or fish is so popular with many bodybuilders). If I eat a grain heavy meal, like pasta or normal bread, it seems to sit on my stomach longer and it is harder to eat my next meal on time. The quality of energy also isn't as good in my experience. I feel more bloated and lethargic on most grains. Energy from tubers seems 'cleaner' to me, as long as they are very well cooked/boiled. White rice and sourdough bread are also exceptions, but relying on those as carb sources without enough leafy greens to offset the lack of nutrition in them is likely to cause you to run into major nutritional issues down the road and also worsen energy levels eventually. Glucose from tubers is a very high quality energy source and had been studied as such and is stored as energy efficiently and just fine.
 

jet9

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Yes, wheat. I haven't had oats in a while, but I'd suspect the same.
Wheat in the form of bread or pasta ?

I know wheat makes me more anxious/moody but I think I do have better energy on it (especially physical, compared to potatoes).
No wonder athletes usually preload on pasta before games.
 
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jet9

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I have never really noticed better energy when I ate grains. Maybe sour dough bread was an exception, or purely sprouted grain bread, but as far as starches are concerned, potatoes actually seem to give me the best and most sustained energy. Grains give sustained energy, but the digestive issues that usually come with them for me offsets any benefit. The thing I love about potatoes is that they're heavy enough to sustain you/your energy and keep you satiated, but they're not so heavy that they seem to take too long to digest before you want to eat another small meal. And this is the issue for many athletic people like me who eat 4-5 small meals spread throughout the day. (This is also why white rice and beef or chicken or fish is so popular with many bodybuilders). If I eat a grain heavy meal, like pasta or normal bread, it seems to sit on my stomach longer and it is harder to eat my next meal on time. The quality of energy also isn't as good in my experience. I feel more bloated and lethargic on most grains. Energy from tubers seems 'cleaner' to me, as long as they are very well cooked/boiled. White rice and sourdough bread are also exceptions, but relying on those as carb sources without enough leafy greens to offset the lack of nutrition in them is likely to cause you to run into major nutritional issues down the road and also worsen energy levels eventually. Glucose from tubers is a very high quality energy source and had been studied as such and is stored as energy efficiently and just fine.
But you still prefer fruit for energy over potatoes (if I am not mistaken from your previous posts)
 

Nicole W.

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Yes. And different in how it seems grain starches seem to last longer? It's a sense that vegetable starches or fruits are wasted, in a sense....like they aren't stored as well or something.
Yes, I totally agree. I have concluded that I can not go without grain. I just don’t feel my best without it. I’m hungry all the time without that kind of starch and no amount of fruit or potatoes makes up for it. I have to have some grain each day to feel normal. Lately, Wasa crisp bread with butter has been my go-to.
 

jet9

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Yes, I totally agree. I have concluded that I can not go without grain. I just don’t feel my best without it. I’m hungry all the time without that kind of starch and no amount of fruit or potatoes makes up for it. I have to have some grain each day to feel normal. Lately, Wasa crisp bread with butter has been my go-to.
Does rice work as “that grain starch” for you ? Or it’s only wheat /rye / barley / oats / etc
 

Nicole W.

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Does rice work as “that grain starch” for you ? Or it’s only wheat /rye / barley / oats / etc
Funny you should ask, I am trying to figure that out. Intuitively, I would say no. But I haven’t experimented enough with that to know for sure. Oats do not really agree with me or make me feel good. Rice seems to give me a “too much sugar” kind of energy, especially if there’s not enough fat/protein to go along with it. I feel balanced when eating wheat or rye, although I think my body likes rye better. I can get some digestive issues with wheat, especially if I eat it several days in a row. I try to eat rye more frequently, and I love the Wasa crackers so that works for me. I kind of wonder if its an ancestral thing... my ancestors were not rice/ potato eaters for the most part. Bread was the main starch in their dietary tradition.
 

jet9

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Funny you should ask, I am trying to figure that out. Intuitively, I would say no. But I haven’t experimented enough with that to know for sure. Oats do not really agree with me or make me feel good. Rice seems to give me a “too much sugar” kind of energy, especially if there’s not enough fat/protein to go along with it. I feel balanced when eating wheat or rye, although I think my body likes rye better. I can get some digestive issues with wheat, especially if I eat it several days in a row. I try to eat rye more frequently, and I love the Wasa crackers so that works for me. I kind of wonder if its an ancestral thing... my ancestors were not rice/ potato eaters for the most part. Bread was the main starch in their dietary tradition.
How do fruits agree with you ?
 

Waremu

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But you still prefer fruit for energy over potatoes (if I am not mistaken from your previous posts)

So far, over the years, I have consumed very little starch and mostly fruit/fruit juice as my main carb source and did just fine energy-wise. The key was to keep eating small meals throughout the day to keep blood sugar stable and not dropping too low and energy up. I have preferred fruit as my main carb source. However, I have a very active lifestyle and it is not always ideal to have the time to eat small meals every 3 hours. Sometimes I need to eat something to make me stay full and have stamina for 4-5 hours. So well cooked starch I think can be ideal for this situation. Lately I have been experimenting with tubers again, mainly the non-orange sweet potatoes which have very little to no beta-carotene. Sweet potatoes are probably one of the top starches closest to sugary fruits, digestion-wise, etc. Very easy f0r many on the digestive system, but keeps you fuller longer than just fruit. A better calcium-phosphorus ratio than normal tubers, a better overall nutrient profile, and digests better, in my experience. I am giving time to see how my experiment goes of reintroducing some well cooked starch like sweet potatoes again. I am not sure how it will go ultimately, but so far, it has been going very well. My experiment is for a few reasons. Part of the reason for sweet potatoes as a main carb source for me is to also experiment with increasing the glucose to fructose ratio and seeing how I respond to it and if it benefits me more in my athletic performance, but doing so with the least 'problematic' or 'offending' starches. This is also part of a dairy free experiment that I am doing. I never had an issue with dairy recently. I handle it just fine, but want to see how I do by ditching it for some time. My main staple foods right now is white/purple sweet potatoes, some orange/pineapple juice, low PUFA white and shellfish (cod, lobster, oysters), gelatin, bok choy for calcium, chicken liver for biotin, vitamins, etc. I am also cutting or trying to lean up and I can keep my protein up and stay satiated longer eating less calories with solid foods relative to more liquids, etc. I am focusing on some body recomp/goals. I am aiming to get enough zinc and copper from low PUFA fish and shellfish at each meal. I'll usually have sweet potatoes with my fish. I've been doing this for months now and have noticed a significant difference in body decomposition. I have added more muscle and leaned out. I think the increased zinc and copper played an important role.
 
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Collden

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Among all carbs, boiled starches like rice, pasta and oats have some unique properties in terms of promoting insulin-stimulated glucose disposal in skeletal muscle to enhance glycogen storage. Simple sugars, and this includes baked/fried starches like bread and chips where the starch polysaccharides are broken down, raise blood sugar but are less efficient at promoting muscle glycogen storage.

Muscle glycogen is the by far biggest store of glucose we have in the body so having those well filled up likely plays a big role in satiety, stress reduction and energy levels.

More info here
Natalie Zimmerman: "The Woefully Misguided War On Carbohydrates"
 
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Nicole W.

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How do fruits agree with you ?
Great, I love fruit and I eat at least two servings a day. I also have OJ or Pineapple juice everyday. Fruit always makes me feel good but it’s not lasting ... I get hungry even when I consume it with some form of protein like eggs or milk/ yogurt. If I have a little bread or a few rye crackers along with it I do much better. I can go 4-5 hours without needing to eat again.
 

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