Do you eat plants that aren't organic or animal products that aren't 100% grassfed/pasture raised?

FoodForeal

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I'm asking because I thought people here are willing to do anything to maximize the health of their diet and therefore minimize any potential toxins, but I often see posts about dietary problems which come partially or wholly from inorganic food sources. Occasionally I eat something that isn't organic and I often notice a bad gut reaction and bad/strange body odor. Shouldn't you eliminate the possibility of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, insecticides, growth hormones, antibiotics, etc. causing your bad reactions to certain foods? How much anecdotal evidence on reactions to specific nutrients or antinutrients in specific foods submitted on this forum has been confounded by the foods being inorganic? Is there not an unspoken rule/assumption that you should primarily share information about reactions to foods that are organic 100% grassfed/pasture raised and indicate if they are not? If there is not such an unspoken rule/assumption, much of the work done on this forum may be cast into doubt in my eyes.

Has someone asked this question already? If so please direct me to that thread. Thanks!
 
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Jennifer

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Yes, I do. When it comes to plants, I care more about ripeness and Brix and when it comes to animal proteins, I care more about how the animals are treated.
 
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FoodForeal

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Yes, I do. When it comes to plants, I care more about ripeness and Brix and when it comes to animal proteins, I care more about how the animals are treated.
What do you use to test for Brix? It seems useful for testing plant health in general.

Are you concerned about genetically modified organisms? There is now talk about produce being genetically modified to produce mrna vaccines within the cells of the plants for human consumption. It is illegal for organic foods to be genetically modified.

I view the diet of animals as part of how they are treated because it impacts their health, so I believe they should be fed their native, organic diet with no toxins sprayed on their feed in any way, same as I would want for my own feed. Obviously I probably care more about abuse and their living conditions, but I believe animals are what they eat, like us, which means their existence will be reduced to a lower level if they are not treated with a good toxin free diet.

In addition animals are now on the table for genetic modification. Genetically modified animal products cannot legally be considered organic, so by eating organic you again eliminate the possibility of supporting the the genetic modification (bad treatment) of animals.

Nowadays plants are often genetically modified to allow it to survive roundup/glyphosate which targets the shikimate pathway, the disruption of which causes many bacteria to produce toxic metabolites and kills most plants, so I choose not to eat anything but organic food because even if the herbicide used isn't glyphosate the principle of killing life besides the intended plant which ultimately lead to the development of unnatural gmo zombie plants that live despite exposure to toxin that kills most plants is still used. In nature, diversity of plant, insect, and animal life prevents crops from being destroyed and enhances their nutrition and yield while regenerating the soil. Using inorganic toxic chemicals to kill is not the right approach, it is anti-nature. It views nature as something that needs to be controlled or killed off, it is a perspective that views us and makes us more separate from nature. Besides this, toxins that target specific life forms such as insecticides for insects, herbicides for herbs/plants, fungicides for fungi, etc. are often toxic not just to the target life form, but also to most organisms in nature including ourselves.
 
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I buy locally produced fruits and vegetables when they are available due to the lower carbon footprint and to support local agriculture in my community but other than that, no. It just feels like I am paying an "organic tax" with no added benefit. Plus I have noticed certain foods like berries tend to mold more quickly when they're organic. Can't speak for animal products since I don't consume them at all.
So generally speaking I avoid organic unless it is the only option available.
 

Lollipop2

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I don’t if I can avoid it. I always choose organic vegetables and then local vegetables by a local farm I know. They are basically Organic but haven’t paid the certification fee. I only choose 100% grassfed beef (not just pastured). I am lucky as far as chickens as I buy from a farm in Arkansas that has pastured chickens eating bugs AND they are a regenerative farming organization that feeds the chickens their own organically grown veggies. I used to live 20 min from them and then recently found them in a store in Dallas ( @Jennifer - Eataly). The milk I buy is organic grassfed unhomogenized from Amish farmers.
 

lvysaur

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Organic just seems meaningless to me. I go by ripeness/how good the stuff looks.

Sometimes, raw meat looks crisp and bright. Other times it looks soggy and waterlogged. I've noticed it with pork more than beef.

For veggies I look for smaller/greener ones. Young cauliflower has a greenish tinge to it, and it tastes much better. Fresh potatoes have skins that lack the white scuffing from drying out. etc.
 

Jennifer

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@FoodForeal, I use a refractometer to test Brix. The fruits (I don't eat veggies) I consume aren't genetically modified. Just because something isn't certified organic doesn't mean pesticides were involved in its production and just because an animal protein is certified organic and from 100% grass-fed animals (obviously for grazers, not browsers), doesn't mean the animal was treated as humanely as an animal that wasn't fed 100% organic pasture. I would rather a farm that practices calf at foot and feeds some grain during milking than a farm that is 100% grass-based, but separates the babies from their mothers, which is a common practice even in organic, 100% pasture-based farming. It's important to me that the babies are kept with their mothers and are able to nurse. I'm lucky that the farm I get my milk from not only practices calf at foot, but is biodynamic and 100% pasture-based.
 

Lollipop2

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@FoodForeal, I use a refractometer to test Brix. The fruits (I don't eat veggies) I consume aren't genetically modified. Just because something isn't certified organic doesn't mean pesticides were involved in its production and just because an animal protein is certified organic and from 100% grass-fed animals (obviously for grazers, not browsers), doesn't mean the animal was treated as humanely as an animal that wasn't fed 100% organic pasture. I would rather a farm that practices calf at foot and feeds some grain during milking than a farm that is 100% grass-based, but separates the babies from their mothers, which is a common practice even in organic, 100% pasture-based farming. It's important to me that the babies are kept with their mothers and are able to nurse. I'm lucky that the farm I get my milk from not only practices calf at foot, but is biodynamic and 100% pasture-based.
Yes to this whole post!!
 

Lollipop2

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Yes of course I do. I don't have $$money to burn.
Yes this is unfortunately a problem, the cost. I made a decision 20 years ago that this was more important than anything else in my life. I have made choices/sacrifices to be able to afford it. Now it seems to be paying off. Fortunately when I got married eight years ago my husband saw the truth in my choices and joined in with me. Now we will never go back…

I can’t lie, it has been tough, tough at times. I think if you find some local sources for food you can do it affordably.
 

DMF

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How can one be sure that what they're buying really is organic? Is there really any enforcement?
Packing - shipping - storing - delivering - then of course, LABLING, somewhere along the way do they really care?
 
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FoodForeal

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@Jennifer If you are forced to buy your food from a grocery store, you usually have to rely on organic certification. If you buy local as you do and know where your food comes from and the practices of the producer, then you know that your food is organic without needing an organic certification. I agree with your stance on grainfed/grassfed and calf at foot. I should make sure to mention the calf at foot practice more when discussing regenerative agriculture. It is in my signature. Grainfed vs grassfed is what I've focused on since first learning about bad cattle factory farming practices because grainfeeding cows allows for a host of unnatural consequences and decisions about how the cow is made to live following from that initial bad diet decision.

Watch this short 2 min 24 sec video. The beginning might show the bovine in its fullest form and habitat. Everything that takes a cow away from that makes it less healthy.

View: https://youtu.be/PXvdMfyg2mQ

1:59 ""The primary cause of the buffalo's extermination, and the one which embraced all others was the descent of civilization, with all its elements of destructiveness, upon the whole of the country inhabited by that animal.""


The industrial revolution...

View: https://youtu.be/Ww3cMgFr2xQ?t=173
 
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FoodForeal

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How can one be sure that what they're buying really is organic? Is there really any enforcement?
Packing - shipping - storing - delivering - then of course, LABLING, somewhere along the way do they really care?
You never know for sure, but I can taste the difference. I don't want ******* poison in my food I'll pay the price to keep it out if there's even a chance that it will be enforced. Grocery stores suck. I am maximizing my local food supply and growing it myself, but in the meantime I get organic food from where I have to. Humanity is being degenerated and is accepting a poisoned existence. Not I.
 

I'm.No.One

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I buy organic when it matters i.e. a crop that is typically heavily sprayed.

The dirty dozen list is a helpful place to start & is updated yearly based on current farming practices.

I think people do waste a lot of money on "green washed" organic food that's literally just the same as it was before certification.

Then there's the fact that most people don't realize...

Organic doesn't mean pesticide free, it just means they can only use certain types of sprays/practices.

Also organic doesn't mean GMO free, you can buy organic GMO foods all day long. The organic certification only has to do with how it's grown, not the plants genetics. That's why there's also a non-gmo certified seal.

As far as meat goes remember grass fed (typically silage, some pasture, lots of trucked in hay) has just as much contamination as grain fed, because alfalfa/hay is dirty AF chemical wise.

We're lucky enough to raise/hunt all of our own meat though so it's not a concern for us.
 
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FoodForeal

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Organic doesn't mean pesticide free, it just means they can only use certain types of sprays/practices.
I didn't know that.

"

WHY HAVEN'T WE HEARD THIS BEFORE?​

For obvious reasons, organic farmers have done little, if anything, to dispel the myth that "organic = chemical/pesticide-free". They would only stand to lose business by making such a disclosure.
Pesticide manufacturers have little concern in the matter. To them, "synthetic pesticides sold" and "organic pesticides sold" are both "pesticides sold".

As for conventional farmers, they are not really in a position to be critical. It would not be in their interest to draw attention to chemical and pesticide use.

WHAT DOES ALL OF THIS MEAN?​

The purpose in writing this article is not to discourage you from buying organic produce.
It is only meant to let you know what you are or aren't getting when you make such a purchase. Unless you know your grower personally, there is no guarantee that your produce has been grown without pesticides or other chemicals. It's a point to consider, given the substantially higher cost of organic foods.

There are many choices and decisions that we, as consumers, are asked to make. Hopefully, this has provided some new information that you will find helpful.
"

I would appreciate a chemical free certification. Still, if you buy all organic it does significantly reduce your chemical consumption I would think.

Also organic doesn't mean GMO free, you can buy organic GMO foods all day long. The organic certification only has to do with how it's grown, not the plants genetics. That's why there's also a non-gmo certified seal.
Non-gmo certified seal means it does not contain genetically modified organisms. Organic includes non-gmo. A product can be labeled non-gmo but not be organic.

"

Organic 101: Can GMOs Be Used in Organic Products?​

The use of genetic engineering, or genetically modified organisms (GMOs), is prohibited in organic products. This means an organic farmer can’t plant GMO seeds, an organic cow can’t eat GMO alfalfa or corn, and an organic soup producer can’t use any GMO ingredients. To meet the USDA organic regulations, farmers and processors must show they aren’t using GMOs and that they are protecting their products from contact with prohibited substances, such as GMOs, from farm to table.
"

As far as meat goes remember grass fed (typically silage, some pasture, lots of trucked in hay) has just as much contamination as grain fed, because alfalfa/hay is dirty AF chemical wise.
I only buy grassfed beef in bulk from local farms that I know use chemical free silage/hay or pasture but I'm pretty sure organic certification requires animal feed to be synthetic chemical free (maybe they allow organic herbicides, insecticides, fungicides) for the animal products to be considered organic.

We're lucky enough to raise/hunt all of our own meat though so it's not a concern for us.
Self sufficiency is the ideal everyone should strive for, but city living takes us away from it.

I buy organic when it matters i.e. a crop that is typically heavily sprayed.

The dirty dozen list is a helpful place to start & is updated yearly based on current farming practices.
I agree, from what I've learned from your post it seems this would be the most pragmatic course of action for limiting potential waste of money. As I said a local food source you know is always best, then you don't have to worry about certifications.

Keep in mind this post by haidut though: FDA Food Tests For Monsanto's RoundUp (glyphosate) Are Fraud, All Food Likely Contaminated
 

Jennifer

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@Jennifer If you are forced to buy your food from a grocery store, you usually have to rely on organic certification. If you buy local as you do and know where your food comes from and the practices of the producer, then you know that your food is organic without needing an organic certification.

I thank you for acknowledging that some are forced to buy less than perfect foods.

Watch this short 2 min 24 sec video. The beginning might show the bovine in its fullest form and habitat. Everything that takes a cow away from that makes it less healthy.

The American Indians’ symbiotic relationship with nature is beautiful, and that way of being is still alive here—they’re my ancestors—and I don’t believe farming, even modern, has to be at odds with that, but I’m for what is optimal, not what is “natural” so…
 

Ulysses

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I'm asking because I thought people here are willing to do anything to maximize the health of their diet and therefore minimize any potential toxins, but I often see posts about dietary problems which come partially or wholly from inorganic food sources. Occasionally I eat something that isn't organic and I often notice a bad gut reaction and bad/strange body odor. Shouldn't you eliminate the possibility of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, insecticides, growth hormones, antibiotics, etc. causing your bad reactions to certain foods? How much anecdotal evidence on reactions to specific nutrients or antinutrients in specific foods submitted on this forum has been confounded by the foods being inorganic? Is there not an unspoken rule/assumption that you should primarily share information about reactions to foods that are organic 100% grassfed/pasture raised and indicate if they are not? If there is not such an unspoken rule/assumption, much of the work done on this forum may be cast into doubt in my eyes.

Has someone asked this question already? If so please direct me to that thread. Thanks!
It depends. I won't eat random pork or chicken. I'll eat pretty much any beef or lamb you put in front of me though. Haven't ever had a bad reaction to even really cheap fast food cheeseburgers like Sonic. Hold the mayo, skip the fries and it's a low pufa meal.

Have you noticed that in these anti-animal-food campaigns, "they" seem to target beef and dairy consumption specifically? People eating chicken is less of a concern for them and in fact, the per capita consumption of chicken has skyrocketed in the decades since their social engineering began in earnest.

My theory on this is that they hate cows because it's almost impossible to significantly debase the foodstuffs we get from cows and other ruminants. They can trick us into eating tons of soybean oil by feeding us chickens that have eaten soy, but it doesn't work that way with beef fat.

So, if you accept the idea that their intention is to make us sick, fat, and dependent on them, all they can really do with regards to cow-based nutrition is get rid of it/
 
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-Luke-

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My diet consists mostly of milk/cheese, eggs, apples/apple sauce, potatoes, clementine juice/grape juice, and honey. For these foods, the difference between organic and conventional is not that big and they are relatively cheap in general. So I buy organic eggs (which are nevertheless fed with garbage - organic waste so to speak) and milk from cows that regularly graze on pasture, so semi grassfed. In a perfect world I'd have my own chickens and get milk from a local farm. What I buy is a tradeoff between a perfect world and torture of animals.

When it comes to plant food that isn't too important for me. I buy local potatoes and apples, but not necessarily organic. The organic apple sauce in the grocery store actually costs exactly the same as the non-organic. Other than apples, I hardly ever buy fruit anymore, because with most of the fruit here you can break someones skull, organic or not. If I ever want to invest in weapons, I'll buy some mangoes or melons. It doesn't matter whether they are organic or not then.

It's a compromise between animal well-being, supply and price.
 

Ulysses

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My diet consists mostly of milk/cheese, eggs, apples/apple sauce, potatoes, clementine juice/grape juice, and honey. For these foods, the difference between organic and conventional is not that big and they are relatively cheap in general. So I buy organic eggs (which are nevertheless fed with garbage - organic waste so to speak) and milk from cows that regularly graze on pasture, so semi grassfed. In a perfect world I'd have my own chickens and get milk from a local farm. What I buy is a tradeoff between a perfect world and torture of animals.

When it comes to plant food that isn't too important for me. I buy local potatoes and apples, but not necessarily organic. The organic apple sauce in the grocery store actually costs exactly the same as the non-organic. Other than apples, I hardly ever buy fruit anymore, because with most of the fruit here you can break someones skull, organic or not. If I ever want to invest in weapons, I'll buy some mangoes or melons. It doesn't matter whether they are organic or not then.

It's a compromise between animal well-being, supply and price.
I would agree that it makes little difference for most of the foods you've listed, but apples and potatoes can actually have quite high herbicide concentrations from what I remember -- which in the case of potatoes was kind of surprising to me, given that it's a tuber. But I suppose the stuff accumulates in the soil and percolates down.

If you're buying them locally then maybe they're fine, but when shopping at the supermarket I would always try to get these two items with an organic certification

When I lived in Idaho I heard more than one story about farmers who grew two plots of potatoes: one for commercial sale, which was sprayed with herbicides, and one to feed themselves and their families, which was not sprayed. They would only eat from the latter plot, naturally
 

Vinny

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No. I do not eat anything organic (except rare occasions) and not planning to for the near future.
 
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