Do We Really Need Much Calcium On A Day-to-day Basis?

[baccheion]

There's a need for at least however much is lost with urine (adjusted backward to account for bioavailability) after a day with no/minimal intake. There are also tests that estimate nitrogen balance, making it possible to more accurately determine protein requirement.

 

[biffbelvin]

"According to the Physician’s Committee for Responsible Medicine, “increases in dairy or total dietary calcium intake (above 400 to 500 mg per day) are not correlated with – or a predictor of – bone mineral density or fracture rate in children or young adults.” That would make 400-500 of both calcium and magnesium the target for many people. Dr. Carolyn Dean, author of The Magnesium Miracle

, claims 6-8mg per kilogram of body weight.

It is my stance that a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium is most likely optimal, with higher levels of magnesium possibly being even better.

• 400-600mg of calcium and magnesium
• 35-50 ng/ml of vitamin D (Sun and 500-5000IU depending on your level)
• K2 from the diet or supplementation
• Boron and silica from mineral water and diet"

How Much Calcium, Magnesium and Vitamin D Should You Take? | TheHealthBeat.com

Could We Be Having Too Much Calcium? Calcium : Magnesium Balance Discussion

I really wish people would follow up these articles with a meal plan. I just don't see how you're supposed to achieve a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium without supplementation. The only foods that have a greater proportion of magnesium:calcium are dark chocolate and some leafy greens. Good luck getting Chard year round btw. Almost all other foods have a much higher ratio of calcium:magnesium, and would thus need to be paired with an excessive amount of chocolate (or similar food) to get back up to 1:1.

All that being said, it wouldn't suprise me if the 'impossibility' is due to soil depletion. I.e. foods historically had much higher Mg:Ca ratio...

In my carnivore days when I gained a lot of my height as a teen, I largely attribute that to high protein intake among other things. Without knowing I followed one of Peat's prime principles which was a very close calcium to phosphorus ratio despite doing carnivore. I had minimum 3 cups of full fat milk a day along with over 6 ounces of high quality cheese like gouda along with a scarce other source of calcium like eggs. Despite intake of steaks, chicken, salami, when I try to tap into cronometer a day of eating I would usually have I end up with somewhat close Ca:P ratio. I ended with 2g calcium and 2g+ phosphorus(probably more depending on what I ate).

I have this spreadsheet from my horribly neurotic days and my intention was to prove you wrong because this sounds completely off. When I punched in just the Milk and Cheese, you have:

• 1200Kcal
• 2.4grams of calcium
• 1.9grams of phosphorus

Making up 2500 calories with 20% fat ground beef (you said it was a carnivore diet right?) you would end up with

• 2.4 grams of calcium
• 2.9 grams of phosphorus
• 0.8 Ca:P ratio

Which upon reflection is honestly not that bad. Eat a load of vegetables with your mince and you can probably get up to 0.9! Just a shame that 70% of calories are from fat!

 

[ecstatichamster]

If anyone is familiar with Dr Terry Wahls and her protocol, she was in a wheelchair for four years but healed herself by following a diet she designed (meat and vegetables) and now she's fully capable of walking, exercising and cycling.
Her calcium intake only comes from plants.

Yes I am. I read her book. She consumes massive numbers of cooked vegetables as the centerpiece, as I recall. Somewhat like Gerson actually now that I think about it.

Vegetables aren’t terribly high in phosphorus and may have a decent amount of calcium. Muscle meat and grains are very high in phosphorus compared to low calcium.

 

[dreamcatcher]

Yes I am. I read her book. She consumes massive numbers of cooked vegetables as the centerpiece, as I recall. Somewhat like Gerson actually now that I think about it.

Vegetables aren’t terribly high in phosphorus and may have a decent amount of calcium. Muscle meat and grains are very high in phosphorus compared to low calcium.

I have her book as well and followed her on Instagram for some time. What is your diet like, lots of dairy and fruits?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have her book as well and followed her on Instagram for some time. What is your diet like, lots of dairy and fruits?

Lots of dairy. Some fruits. Orange juice. Muscle meat and a slice or two of bread.

I drink 1/2 gallon of milk a day and OJ and add to that.

 

[baccheion]

I really wish people would follow up these articles with a meal plan. I just don't see how you're supposed to achieve a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium without supplementation. The only foods that have a greater proportion of magnesium:calcium are dark chocolate and some leafy greens. Good luck getting Chard year round btw. Almost all other foods have a much higher ratio of calcium:magnesium, and would thus need to be paired with an excessive amount of chocolate (or similar food) to get back up to 1:1.

All that being said, it wouldn't suprise me if the 'impossibility' is due to soil depletion. I.e. foods historically had much higher Mg:Ca ratio...



I have this spreadsheet from my horribly neurotic days and my intention was to prove you wrong because this sounds completely off. When I punched in just the Milk and Cheese, you have:

• 1200Kcal
• 2.4grams of calcium
• 1.9grams of phosphorus

Making up 2500 calories with 20% fat ground beef (you said it was a carnivore diet right?) you would end up with

• 2.4 grams of calcium
• 2.9 grams of phosphorus
• 0.8 Ca:P ratio

Which upon reflection is honestly not that bad. Eat a load of vegetables with your mince and you can probably get up to 0.9! Just a shame that 70% of calories are from fat!

Higher serum vitamin D lessens calcium requirement (due to increased absorption). Near the top of the range, a 10% increase lowers 800s to the 600s.

Greens supply magnesium sometimes along with calcium that isn't as bioavailable. There's also cod/fish. Unsure if Peaty things. Don't care.

 

[Blossom]

Listen to Dr. Peat's interviews or read some of his past newsletters.

Higher phosphorus than calcium in the diet over time increases parathyroid hormone which increases inflammatory responses including aldosterone.

The calcium leaches from the bones into soft tissues and blood sera.

If you add calcium to the diet, along with adequate D3 and K2 MK4 (I have found K2 MK7 useless) your parathyroid will come down. It takes place over weeks, not hours.

The calcium in the blood will decline.

The solution if you have high calcium in the blood is higher dietary calcium in proportion to phosphorus.

I feel like this is one of the most valuable takeaways from Peat for me personally.

 

[redsun]

I really wish people would follow up these articles with a meal plan. I just don't see how you're supposed to achieve a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium without supplementation. The only foods that have a greater proportion of magnesium:calcium are dark chocolate and some leafy greens. Good luck getting Chard year round btw. Almost all other foods have a much higher ratio of calcium:magnesium, and would thus need to be paired with an excessive amount of chocolate (or similar food) to get back up to 1:1.

All that being said, it wouldn't suprise me if the 'impossibility' is due to soil depletion. I.e. foods historically had much higher Mg:Ca ratio...



I have this spreadsheet from my horribly neurotic days and my intention was to prove you wrong because this sounds completely off. When I punched in just the Milk and Cheese, you have:

• 1200Kcal
• 2.4grams of calcium
• 1.9grams of phosphorus

Making up 2500 calories with 20% fat ground beef (you said it was a carnivore diet right?) you would end up with

• 2.4 grams of calcium
• 2.9 grams of phosphorus
• 0.8 Ca:P ratio

Which upon reflection is honestly not that bad. Eat a load of vegetables with your mince and you can probably get up to 0.9! Just a shame that 70% of calories are from fat!

No way man I wasnt doing hardcore fat levels. My fat was max 55-60% with maybe 15-20% carbs 20-25% protein. I didnt use to track calories back then I just ate to appetite though. I did attempt more hardcore zero carb but could never do it. Good thing because teens need carbs, I couldnt fight my craving for carbs so I had small amounts in.

As for that 2.4 Ca and 2.9 P I doubt the P was that high but who knows as I didnt obsessively track.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I feel like this is one of the most valuable takeaways from Peat for me personally.

me too. Along with the dangers of PUFA and how it accumulates in tissues with aging, the dangers of iron, how endotoxins are responsible for much/most disease, how to counter estrogen better with things like carrot salad or well cooked mushrooms...

 

[biffbelvin]

No way man I wasnt doing hardcore fat levels. My fat was max 55-60% with maybe 15-20% carbs 20-25% protein. I didnt use to track calories back then I just ate to appetite though. I did attempt more hardcore zero carb but could never do it. Good thing because teens need carbs, I couldnt fight my craving for carbs so I had small amounts in.

As for that 2.4 Ca and 2.9 P I doubt the P was that high but who knows as I didnt obsessively track.

Honestly, I was just suspicious as I struggled to put into practice a 1:1 ratio myself.

I think it's probably harder without relying on a ton of calories from fat. A lot of carbohydrates (whole fruit excluded) have similar Ca:P ratios to meat, but are a lot less calorie dense, so you need to eat a higher volume (and thus intake a load more phosphorus).

 

[LUH 3417]

anything that activates the glutamate system will contribute an excitatory effect, MSG is a typical pro-glutamate agonist aka activator.
To much MSG = unpleasant overstimulation, probably a headache.

The opposite is antagonism aka blockers. eg, Magnesium, Ketamine, act as 'nmda antagonists' contributing disassociation, relaxation and a calming of brain neurotransmission.

anything pro-cannabinoid will contribute typical cannabinoid effects, relating to CB1 'receptor' being present on GABA neurons... and also glutamate ones iirc. Cannabinoids (including our naturally produced endocannabinoids made from fats) have sedative/calming effects.

Note that continued use of a blocker aka antagonist, leads to a direct normal homeostatic response of upregulating the 'receptor system' in question.

But don’t some high calcium foods also have magnesium (milk, leafy greens)?

 

[Sativa]

But don’t some high calcium foods also have magnesium (milk, leafy greens)?

Probably...that's outside the scope of my current considerations tbh.

btw Zinc has notable underated pharmacology too... its a Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor (DRI), and under certain conditions reverses the Dopamine transporter (DAT) - properties shared with Amphetamine!
Zinc also acts like an NMDA antagonist, meaning it temporarily blocks the glutamate 'receptors'.

Zinc is powerful, and has significant understated psychoactive potential.

 

[ebs]

Calcium is very problematic for me. Milk ***** up my digestion while supplementing it makes me more agitated. What to do?

 

[BigChad]

Dr. Peat has made the case, convincingly to me, that Ca levels should exceed phosphorus levels on an ongoing basis. It’s a long term thing. But I try to get 2g to 3g of calcium every day. That way I can eat muscle meat or some bread without feeling like I’m messing myself up.

I just had an egg, and I added some cheese. I think if you have dairy products it’s far easier. Without dairy products you would have to supplement in most cases.

Why bread? Does it contain phosphate

 

[ecstatichamster]

Grains and muscle meat are high in phosphorus but low in calcium.

Of course you can take a calcium supplement but I’m not sure that it really is a good idea compared to getting calcium from food.

 

[Sativa]

Of course you can take a calcium supplement but I’m not sure that it really is a good idea compared to getting calcium from food.

egg shell calcium carbonate mixed with acetic acid (vinegar) forming calcium acetate seems like an ideal solution.

 

[ebs]

egg shell calcium carbonate mixed with acetic acid (vinegar) forming calcium acetate seems like an ideal solution.

Interesting. How much with how much?

 

[Sativa]

Interesting. How much with how much?

google it or search forums.
heres my main thread on easy DIY mixtures to create useful substances. Some increase CO2, reduce calcium loss or bind Phosphate thus reducing intake! Very handy, especially combined with high P foods...

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