Do vitamin A supplements deplete vitamin A?

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Motif

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They also claim copper supplements don’t raise copper and ceruloplasmin I think.

something like this can’t be so hard to find out I guess? Why is everything so conflicting
 

Dave Clark

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The conventional wisdom is that copper supplements are a copper2 form that doesn't get taken up by the cells properly, and then gets stored, attributing to copper toxicity. Copper 1 found in plant sources is supposed to be the form that is used and accepted into the cells for the ETC, etc.
Where is the data showing vitamin A supplements deplete A? There are many out there that ridicule the forms of retinol in supplements, but all you have to do is go to the thread against vitamin A supplements to make your head spin.
 
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Motif

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The conventional wisdom is that copper supplements are a copper2 form that doesn't get taken up by the cells properly, and then gets stored, attributing to copper toxicity. Copper 1 found in plant sources is supposed to be the form that is used and accepted into the cells for the ETC, etc.
Where is the data showing vitamin A supplements deplete A? There are many out there that ridicule the forms of retinol in supplements, but all you have to do is go to the thread against vitamin A supplements to make your head spin.
Is this really the conventional wisdom?
So copper from chlorophyll with copper complex would be a good source ...

I have no idea what to believe to be honest.
I was reading in this forum people got their copper and ceruloplasmin up with copper supplements too
 

Dave Clark

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Is this really the conventional wisdom?he
So copper from chlorophyll with copper complex would be a good source ...

I have no idea what to believe to be honest.
I was reading in this forum people got their copper and ceruloplasmin up with copper supplements too
Perhaps that was a misnomer, however, it is conventional only to people that have subscribed to the idea that the different copper forms function differently in the body, as well as things like oral vitamin D and retinol levels affecting the ceruloplasmin levels and the regulation or dysregulation of copper.
When these 'experts' make claims about vitamin A supplements causing depletion of vitamin A, it smacks of the 'anti-vitamin' propaganda that a lot of these purists spew out, and often times have no science to back their claims up (or clinical or anecdotal evidence). I'll believe it when I see the science. Some of these same people think omega-3 oils are good to consume, just because it came from nature.
 
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Motif

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Perhaps that was a misnomer, however, it is conventional only to people that have subscribed to the idea that the different copper forms function differently in the body, as well as things like oral vitamin D and retinol levels affecting the ceruloplasmin levels and the regulation or dysregulation of copper.
When these 'experts' make claims about vitamin A supplements causing depletion of vitamin A, it smacks of the 'anti-vitamin' propaganda that a lot of these purists spew out, and often times have no science to back their claims up (or clinical or anecdotal evidence). I'll believe it when I see the science. Some of these same people think omega-3 oils are good to consume, just because it came from nature.
Oh now I got it. Thanks
 

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Ray doesn't seem to go along with that theory, because he does recommend it here in his Prostate Cancer article on raypeat.com.

" (Epitheliosis just refers to an exaggerated proliferation of epithelial cells, the cells covering all surfaces, including the lining of glands, and things as simple as irritation and vitamin A deficiency can cause these cells to proliferate.) In the breast, the proliferative epitheliosis is clearly caused by estrogenic stimulation.

The antagonism between estrogen and vitamin A in controlling epithelial proliferation (and possibly other cell types: Boettger-Tong and Stancel, 1995) is clear wherever it has been tested; vitamin A restrains epithelial proliferation.

(Wherever estrogen is a factor in the development of abnormal tissue, vitamin A supplementation would seem beneficial.)"

Edited spelling.
 
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Peatness

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Ray doesn't seem to go along with that theory, because he does recommend it here in his Prostate Cancer article on repeat.com.

" (Epitheliosis just refers to an exaggerated proliferation of epithelial cells, the cells covering all surfaces, including the lining of glands, and things as simple as irritation and vitamin A deficiency can cause these cells to proliferate.) In the breast, the proliferative epitheliosis is clearly caused by estrogenic stimulation.

The antagonism between estrogen and vitamin A in controlling epithelial proliferation (and possibly other cell types: Boettger-Tong and Stancel, 1995) is clear wherever it has been tested; vitamin A restrains epithelial proliferation.

(Wherever estrogen is a factor in the development of abnormal tissue, vitamin A supplementation would seem beneficial.)"
Helpful quote, thank you
 
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LauriePartridge

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The conventional wisdom is that copper supplements are a copper2 form that doesn't get taken up by the cells properly, and then gets stored, attributing to copper toxicity. Copper 1 found in plant sources is supposed to be the form that is used and accepted into the cells for the ETC, etc.
Where is the data showing vitamin A supplements deplete A? There are many out there that ridicule the forms of retinol in supplements, but all you have to do is go to the thread against vitamin A supplements to make your head spin.
Interesting assertion about copper. So what do you think is accurate? or what is your opinion about the usefulness of copper supplements as well as Vit A/D supplements? And do you know what plants are reported to be the best source of copper and do you agree? Thanks!
 

Dutchie

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I've heard that beta-carotene can cause low vit.A
(beta-carotene is usually in the vit.A supplement,instead of actual Retinol.)
 
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Peatness

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I've heard that beta-carotene can cause low vit.A
(beta-carotene is usually in the vit.A supplement,instead of actual Retinol.)
Beta carotene is such a problem. I was reacting to carrots and all high carotene foods and getting orange/yellow palms. I still can’t work out if that means I have too much or too little vitamin A. I used to supplement palmitate a long time ago. I suspect I over did it back then and tanked my thyroid. It’s a shame there isn’t a simple blood test for this
 

Dutchie

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Beta carotene is such a problem. I was reacting to carrots and all high carotene foods and getting orange/yellow palms. I still can’t work out if that means I have too much or too little vitamin A. I used to supplement palmitate a long time ago. I suspect I over did it back then and tanked my thyroid. It’s a shame there isn’t a simple blood test for this
Yep, I used to turn orange too from eating carrots and pumpkin.
Ironically, I never turned orange or yellow from eating leafy greens.
 

Dave Clark

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Interesting assertion about copper. So what do you think is accurate? or what is your opinion about the usefulness of copper supplements as well as Vit A/D supplements? And do you know what plants are reported to be the best source of copper and do you agree? Thanks!
My understanding is that kale is one of the highest sources of plant copper. Charles Barker from Mitosynergy promotes the copper 1 theory more than anyone I have heard. It sounds very plausible that minerals from plants have the best uptake. I personally subscribe to the idea that oral vitamin D is a problem, and is not the way nature intended for us to get our D, plus there are many arguments about storage D and active D and what levels are appropriate, etc. I feel sunlight is the best way to get sufficient D. I also use vitamin A in supplement form in small amounts, even though I consume grass fed meats, dairy, etc., just to make sure I am getting enough. I have not seen convincing proof that supplement form of retinol is bad, regardless of the thread here on this forum. So, copper can be found in many food sources, but taking a copper 2 supplement, to me, is maybe contributing to copper toxicity, especially if Charles Barker's assertions are correct. If you grow your own food, you can increase the copper levels safely. In the non-growing season, treat the soil area with copper sulfate, it will make the soil replete with copper, which the plant will convert to copper 1 once it becomes growing season {eliminates the possibility of the soil being deficient, hence the food not having enough copper}. Here is a video for FYI:
 

Birdie

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I've heard that beta-carotene can cause low vit.A
(beta-carotene is usually in the vit.A supplement,instead of actual Retinol.)
Ray says to rinse the carrots for the carrot salad to reduce carotene. A lot of us avoid high carotene foods like sweet potatoes and pumpkin. Doesn't Ray always say Retinyl palmitate is preferred to avoid beta-carotene in supplements.
 
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LauriePartridge

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My understanding is that kale is one of the highest sources of plant copper. Charles Barker from Mitosynergy promotes the copper 1 theory more than anyone I have heard. It sounds very plausible that minerals from plants have the best uptake. I personally subscribe to the idea that oral vitamin D is a problem, and is not the way nature intended for us to get our D, plus there are many arguments about storage D and active D and what levels are appropriate, etc. I feel sunlight is the best way to get sufficient D. I also use vitamin A in supplement form in small amounts, even though I consume grass fed meats, dairy, etc., just to make sure I am getting enough. I have not seen convincing proof that supplement form of retinol is bad, regardless of the thread here on this forum. So, copper can be found in many food sources, but taking a copper 2 supplement, to me, is maybe contributing to copper toxicity, especially if Charles Barker's assertions are correct. If you grow your own food, you can increase the copper levels safely. In the non-growing season, treat the soil area with copper sulfate, it will make the soil replete with copper, which the plant will convert to copper 1 once it becomes growing season {eliminates the possibility of the soil being deficient, hence the food not having enough copper}. Here is a video for FYI:
Thanks Dave! I will check out the video and hopefully learn what I need to know about copper. I'm not a fan of supplemental Vit D either and I'm good with a little extra A which hopefully does not interfere with the body's natural ability to produce it (scary thought).

I am wondering if it's confusing to the body to supplement with extra nutrients when not deficient and how it compensates or regulates the surplus.
 

Dutchie

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Ray says to rinse the carrots for the carrot salad to reduce carotene. A lot of us avoid high carotene foods like sweet potatoes and pumpkin. Doesn't Ray always say Retinyl palmitate is preferred to avoid beta-carotene in supplements.
I don't know, I've never had a supplement with vit.A.
 

Birdie

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