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Do Things Sometimes Get Worse Before They Get Better?

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
One does hear about Peat eaters experiencing various ups and downs,
of all different kinds.
I'm very interested in that general phenomenon.
In other words,
is it to be expected that sometimes,
for those beginning a Peat diet...
do things get worse before they better?
Are there transient negative reactions to be expected?

In many other dietary regimes
there are often caveats and explanations attached
which anticipate possible negative reactions.
For instance,
in many diets there is a kind of generalized "cleansing" phase
which is predicted,
where the new diet causes release of bad stuff:
a good thing (putatively) in the long term and necessary,
but painful or negative in the short term.

I've never really heard of some comparable phenomenon in a Peat diet,
or, I guess I should say, in those beginning a Peat diet.
Peat does not seem big at all on the diet being conceived of as "cleansing,"
which a lot of modern, alternative diets do (conceive of themselves as).

Well, let me adjust that:
Peat de-emphasizes diet as "cleanser" in some ways.
He definitely says one of the main (if not the main) goals
if to get rid of PUFAs,
so that could definitely be seen as a cleansing.
But Peat is emphatic that this process should take place over time, slowly.
Because getting rid of the PUFA quickly (or perhaps trying to)
does (Peat says) cause damage to cells and "the organism."

And one doesn't find the typical "cleansing" elements or techniques
in a Peat diet or lifestyle,
like saunas or sweat-lodges or exercising (to heat and cleanse),
or like eating techiques to supposedly cleanse or purge.

I wonder if PUFAs are often released rather suddenly and plentifully
in those starting a Peat diet,
causing intermittent discomfort, side effects...?

I'd be interested to hear posters' experiences in this regard....
 

cliff

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Jul 26, 2012
Messages
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Age
33
Location
Los Angeles
I don't think it should really get worse. I think a lot of the issues some people have come down to food quality or not following ray's recommendations correctly. Maybe if your coming from very low carb and are not used to eating any carbohydrates but that should only last very briefly.
 
J

j.

Guest
mine was drastic improvement in the first few months, and i attribute it to pufa elimination. after that, things stayed the same or improved gradually.

the only time it got worse was when i stopped having access to coconut oil. some bad reactions to foods came back, which i suppose means that coconut oil was good for my gut.
 

nwo2012

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,107
Yes I agree with Cliff here and from what Ive read its people making stuff up and saying Peat recommends it. Like eating store bought ice-cream 24/7 and other such nonsense. Of course you could get some symptoms that would not be fun to begin with. Id imagine anyone with goiter would feel like crap as the colloid is released when they correct the problem, especially if they dont take thyroid to reduce it in size. Also adrenaline junkies may notice they lose all that hyper excess energy and might complain of being more tired in the afternoon. These sort of things. When hormones correct themselves, you could feel off until this is achieved.
My wife got some pains in her neck (thyroid and parathyroid glands I think) for a few days when she started the protest-e and I felt 'high as a kite' for one day when I started pregnenolone.
 
G

gummybear

Guest
I've been following peat's philosophy very strictly, and I feel like sack of potato with no energy what so ever, and my mood is very bad...feel like punshing someone lol. I e-mailed him a couple of days ago to see what is going on but he has not responded, so I have no idea what is going on. I felt great at the beginning though, but now it's just downhill. I don't know what to think honestly.
 
G

gummybear

Guest
pete said:
How strict?

gummybear said:
What does the gelatin for us? Haven't bought any gelatin yet.

Why are you attacking me? I've been doing this strict since a month ago, and you are finding one thing that you can find to undermine my diet? I mean serious...
 

nwo2012

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,107
gummybear said:
pete said:
How strict?

gummybear said:
What does the gelatin for us? Haven't bought any gelatin yet.

Why are you attacking me? I've been doing this strict since a month ago, and you are finding one thing that you can find to undermine my diet? I mean serious...

Very defensive? Gelatin is a very important part of the philosiphy so it does beg the question what else are you doing that is not 'strict' Peatarianism? 3 meals only per day? Not all the fat soluble vits? Not enough calcium? etc etc. I just dont see how you could be feeling like crap if doing it properly.
Hows your pulses? Hows your temps? What is your food history? Are you using thyroid? What are you using? 1 month will not fix years of PUFA abuse or estrogen excess or messed up thyroid etc etc etc.
 
G

gummybear

Guest
nwo2012 said:
gummybear said:
pete said:
How strict?

gummybear said:
What does the gelatin for us? Haven't bought any gelatin yet.

Why are you attacking me? I've been doing this strict since a month ago, and you are finding one thing that you can find to undermine my diet? I mean serious...

Very defensive? Gelatin is a very important part of the philosiphy so it does beg the question what else are you doing that is not 'strict' Peatarianism? 3 meals only per day? Not all the fat soluble vits? Not enough calcium? etc etc. I just dont see how you could be feeling like crap if doing it properly.
Hows your pulses? Hows your temps? What is your food history? Are you using thyroid? What are you using? 1 month will not fix years of PUFA abuse or estrogen excess or messed up thyroid etc etc etc.

download/file.php?id=77&mode=view

?

I've posted what I eat several times here, usually 3-4 liters of milk, 0,5l orange juice, meat/fish 3-4 times a week, carrot every day, coffee 3-4 times a day. 4-5 eggs a week, I fry everything in coconut oil, and I eat fruit between meals. And I eat gummy bears for the gelatin, notice my nickname...
 

cliff

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Jul 26, 2012
Messages
425
Age
33
Location
Los Angeles
.5 liters of OJ isn't very much at all, it's better to eat fruit with protein as well versus eating between meals.
 

pete

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Aug 31, 2012
Messages
139
Not all gelatin is created equal, there are quality issues, but also production differences.

The hydrolysate requires high temperature or enzymatic treatment (bacterial/fungal enzymes?).
 

Birdie

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Aug 10, 2012
Messages
4,737
Location
USA
I've spent my life since I was 16 studying nutrition/food and took years of chemistry, bio chem, biology, anatomy, physiology etc.... Saying that because when I began to read Peat last year I thought I got it right away. As the months passed, I kept learning more about this way of eating. It must have taken 6 months to finally begin being "strict Peat." It takes time. Even a nutritionist/doctor type doesn't understand it all in a few weeks.

And the sicker you are, the harder it is to digest all this information. And you can think you are doing it all, but your mind will keep opening as you go along. You'll keep seeing something you've blindly done which is not at all what Peat recommends. At least that's been my experience.
 
G

gummybear

Guest
Birdie said:
I've spent my life since I was 16 studying nutrition/food and took years of chemistry, bio chem, biology, anatomy, physiology etc.... Saying that because when I began to read Peat last year I thought I got it right away. As the months passed, I kept learning more about this way of eating. It must have taken 6 months to finally begin being "strict Peat." It takes time. Even a nutritionist/doctor type doesn't understand it all in a few weeks.

And the sicker you are, the harder it is to digest all this information. And you can think you are doing it all, but your mind will keep opening as you go along. You'll keep seeing something you've blindly done which is not at all what Peat recommends. At least that's been my experience.

I understand your point of view...but things shouldn't get worse I think. I wasn't feeling this bad before I began this diet.
 

narouz

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Thread starter
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
gummybear--
As I noted over on another thread where we're discussing your woes:
use common sense and see a doctor if you continue to feel bad.
As cool as Peat eating is, it can't fix everything.
I had to have an emergency appendectomy a while back,
and no amount of Peat eating would've fixed that!

What are your temperatures looking like?
What about pulse rate--beats per minute?
 

nwo2012

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,107
gummybear said:
nwo2012 said:
gummybear said:
pete said:
How strict?

gummybear said:
What does the gelatin for us? Haven't bought any gelatin yet.

Why are you attacking me? I've been doing this strict since a month ago, and you are finding one thing that you can find to undermine my diet? I mean serious...

Very defensive? Gelatin is a very important part of the philosiphy so it does beg the question what else are you doing that is not 'strict' Peatarianism? 3 meals only per day? Not all the fat soluble vits? Not enough calcium? etc etc. I just dont see how you could be feeling like crap if doing it properly.
Hows your pulses? Hows your temps? What is your food history? Are you using thyroid? What are you using? 1 month will not fix years of PUFA abuse or estrogen excess or messed up thyroid etc etc etc.

download/file.php?id=77&mode=view

?

I've posted what I eat several times here, usually 3-4 liters of milk, 0,5l orange juice, meat/fish 3-4 times a week, carrot every day, coffee 3-4 times a day. 4-5 eggs a week, I fry everything in coconut oil, and I eat fruit between meals. And I eat gummy bears for the gelatin, notice my nickname...

Yep actually I did think that initially but wondered why you would post no gelatin. Anyways I think it is most likely transient and things will improve. Yes perhaps more sugar with the protein? Hows your salt intake? How was previous PUFA intake? Are you using niacin? Aspirin? Thyroid? Pregnenolone? Liver? Oysters? So many unknown variables if you say 'Peat' philosophy then you actually need to do it all, not just part of it.
 
J

j.

Guest
you guys gotta stop the unnecessary aggressiveness and overreactions. doesn't it raise cortisol? :D
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
4,737
Location
USA
cliff said:
I don't think it should really get worse. I think a lot of the issues some people have come down to food quality or not following ray's recommendations correctly. Maybe if your coming from very low carb and are not used to eating any carbohydrates but that should only last very briefly.

I agree. For me, it's taking a lot of time. I've been reading Peat for a year and keep finding things I need to change or introduce.
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
4,737
Location
USA
pete said:
Not all gelatin is created equal, there are quality issues, but also production differences.

The hydrolysate requires high temperature or enzymatic treatment (bacterial/fungal enzymes?).

Good point.
 

nwo2012

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,107
j. said:
you guys gotta stop the unnecessary aggressiveness and overreactions. doesn't it raise cortisol? :D

:lol:

Narouz, seeing a 'doctor' has nothing to do with common sense generally speaking. So I have to disagree with you on that.

Birdie said:
I've spent my life since I was 16 studying nutrition/food and took years of chemistry, bio chem, biology, anatomy, physiology etc.... Saying that because when I began to read Peat last year I thought I got it right away. As the months passed, I kept learning more about this way of eating. It must have taken 6 months to finally begin being "strict Peat." It takes time. Even a nutritionist/doctor type doesn't understand it all in a few weeks.

No offense aimed at you because clearly you are both educated and intelligent, but from my experience (and most of my working career has been around doctors, dieticians and nutritionists) 'educated' people are usually also the dumbest. As Peat would explain, authoritarianism has a large part to play in this.

But I agree, that as the time passes you learn more and more and its a constant refining of the knowledge and adding your own experience. So eventually, although we follow a general rule set (minimize PUFA, coconut oil, milk, OJ, salt etc etc), we have a 'customized' version which works for us effectively and may be slightly different to another 'Peatarian'.
 

narouz

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Thread starter
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
nwo2012 said:
j. said:
you guys gotta stop the unnecessary aggressiveness and overreactions. doesn't it raise cortisol? :D

:lol:

Narouz, seeing a 'doctor' has nothing to do with common sense generally speaking. So I have to disagree with you on that.

Birdie said:
I've spent my life since I was 16 studying nutrition/food and took years of chemistry, bio chem, biology, anatomy, physiology etc.... Saying that because when I began to read Peat last year I thought I got it right away. As the months passed, I kept learning more about this way of eating. It must have taken 6 months to finally begin being "strict Peat." It takes time. Even a nutritionist/doctor type doesn't understand it all in a few weeks.

No offense aimed at you because clearly you are both educated and intelligent, but from my experience (and most of my working career has been around doctors, dieticians and nutritionists) 'educated' people are usually also the dumbest. As Peat would explain, authoritarianism has a large part to play in this.

But I agree, that as the time passes you learn more and more and its a constant refining of the knowledge and adding your own experience. So eventually, although we follow a general rule set (minimize PUFA, coconut oil, milk, OJ, salt etc etc), we have a 'customized' version which works for us effectively and may be slightly different to another 'Peatarian'.

I'm just saying,
you run into things like Appendicitis.
And no amout of Peating can fix that,
right?
 

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