Do Men Actually Need High Testosterone For Good Health?

[ddjd]

I'm a 31 year old male. I've been experimenting with Androsterone and progesterone and other peaty Estrogen reduction supps/foods- but along with estrogen lowering, my Total T levels have gone down quite significantly, by around 40%, to around 300.

My question is, apart from zero libido, I'm in far far better health because for the first time my estrogen is low. My insomnia, dandruff, diarrhoea, hair shedding, heart palpitations and so many other things have stopped.

Do men really need high Testosterone to be healthy?

 

[Sexypizza]

Yes, your testosterone should be higher. Your low libido is a sign that's it's not where it should be. You should look into why it's so low.

Did you check your thyroid function? Hypothyroidism decreases testosterone and increases estrogen.

 

[baccheion]

I'm a 31 year old male. I've been experimenting with Androsterone and progesterone and other peaty Estrogen reduction supps/foods- but along with estrogen lowering, my Total T levels have gone down quite significantly, by around 40%, to around 300.

My question is, apart from zero libido, I'm in far far better health because for the first time my estrogen is low. My insomnia, dandruff, diarrhoea, hair shedding, heart palpitations and so many other things have stopped.

Do men really need high Testosterone to be healthy?

Aromatase inhibitors (vitamin D, vitamin E, grape seed extract, resveratrol, etc) lower estrogens. There's also boron.

 

[ddjd]

Aromatase inhibitors (vitamin D, vitamin E, grape seed extract, resveratrol, etc) lower estrogens. There's also boron.

Ha ha you must be new to Peatland. Peat is strongly against reservatrol, grape seed extract and boron- they all actually raise estrogen. I agree with you on a good vit E - that does work

 

[ddjd]

Yes, your testosterone should be higher. Your low libido is a sign that's it's not where it should be. You should look into why it's so low.

Did you check your thyroid function? Hypothyroidism decreases testosterone and increases estrogen.

Isn't estrogen primarily the cause of high libido

 

[baccheion]

Ha ha you must be new to Peatland. Peat is strongly against reservatrol, grape seed extract and boron- they all actually raise estrogen. I agree with you on a good vit E - that does work

Boron raises "good" estrogens. What studies show resveratrol raising estrogens?

Isn't estrogen primarily the cause of high libido

Low estrogen can result in lower libido.

Vasodilators (blood flow), acetylcholine enhancers (mechanics of arousal), and dopamine enhancers (lust) tend to result in increased libido. For example, lecithin + agmatine. Or maybe acetyl L-carnitine + alpha-GPC.

 

[Vinero]

Low estrogen can result in lower libido.

Very low estrogen might, as in depleting estrogen with androsterone, DHT or very high doses of progesterone.
Otherwise the opposite is true. Men with high estrogen typically have erectile dysfunction and other libido problems.
Think about how older men (60+) typically have no libido anymore, do you really think old men have low estrogen? Of course not.

 

[Vinero]

I'm a 31 year old male. I've been experimenting with Androsterone and progesterone and other peaty Estrogen reduction supps/foods- but along with estrogen lowering, my Total T levels have gone down quite significantly, by around 40%, to around 300.

My question is, apart from zero libido, I'm in far far better health because for the first time my estrogen is low. My insomnia, dandruff, diarrhoea, hair shedding, heart palpitations and so many other things have stopped.

Do men really need high Testosterone to be healthy?

I get low libido too when supplementing androsterone or very high doses of progesterone.
You have to keep in mind that Ray Peat never has recommended to take androsterone.
He also says men can benefit from progesterone only when sick, otherwise it might suppress their testosterone.
Low-dose topical DHEA, can increase testosterone and Ray has recommended that.
Pregnenolone is also very good for men to take.

 

[baccheion]

Very low estrogen might, as in depleting estrogen with androsterone, DHT or very high doses of progesterone.
Otherwise the opposite is true. Men with high estrogen typically have erectile dysfunction and other libido problems.
Think about how older men (60+) typically have no libido anymore, do you really think old men have low estrogen? Of course not.

Older men having low libido may be due to low testosterone, dopamine (increased MAO-B), etc. When they supplement with pregnenolone/DHEA, Iodine Protocol, resveratrol, selegiline, megadose vitamin D + K, or any number of things that get metabolism/hormones flowing, libido, energy, and vitality tends to return.

 

[Vinero]

Older men having low libido may be due to low testosterone, dopamine (increased MAO-B), etc. When they supplement with pregnenolone/DHEA, Iodine Protocol, resveratrol, selegiline, or any number of things that get metabolism/hormones flowing, libido, energy, and vitality tends to return.

Agreed, they might have low testosterone and low-dopamine too. Old men typically have High estrogen and Low testosterone.

 

[2thecloudsabove]

I'm a 31 year old male. I've been experimenting with Androsterone and progesterone and other peaty Estrogen reduction supps/foods- but along with estrogen lowering, my Total T levels have gone down quite significantly, by around 40%, to around 300.

My question is, apart from zero libido, I'm in far far better health because for the first time my estrogen is low. My insomnia, dandruff, diarrhoea, hair shedding, heart palpitations and so many other things have stopped.

Do men really need high Testosterone to be healthy?

No, rather you need normal T levels if you aim to ensure health and quality of life, around 700 ng/dL (+-200). Looking for high levels like far above 1000 does not guarantee better health and in probably it will be deleterious on the long run.

 

[japanesedude]

Did you use Androsterone with Progesterone but no DHEA or Pregnenolone at all?
I think the reason why your T has been dropped is Progesterone.
high dose Progesterone can lower your T. but low dose (under 10mg) can actually increase T and DHT.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Daily 5mg to 10mg progesterone plus 5mg or so of DHEA and 100mg-200mg pregnenolone seems very sustainable and raises libido and erection quality for me. I have high T anyway but also high estrogen and I think this helps along with thyroid.

 

[Jsaute21]

Daily 5mg to 10mg progesterone plus 5mg or so of DHEA and 100mg-200mg pregnenolone seems very sustainable and raises libido and erection quality for me. I have high T anyway but also high estrogen and I think this helps along with thyroid.

Do you take thyroid anymore or have you ceased use?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Do you take thyroid anymore or have you ceased use?

Still take it. Seems to be more helpful than it used to be.

 

[Jsaute21]

Still take it. Seems to be more helpful than it used to be.

Interesting. Do you take just t3 or both t3/t4?

 

[Jsaute21]

I'm a 31 year old male. I've been experimenting with Androsterone and progesterone and other peaty Estrogen reduction supps/foods- but along with estrogen lowering, my Total T levels have gone down quite significantly, by around 40%, to around 300.

My question is, apart from zero libido, I'm in far far better health because for the first time my estrogen is low. My insomnia, dandruff, diarrhoea, hair shedding, heart palpitations and so many other things have stopped.

Do men really need high Testosterone to be healthy?

I would say Testosterone lower than 500 is no bueno. Eating plenty of good nutritious carbs (Orange juice with no fillers, good raisins, grapes, pomegranate, and other fruits) should help pretty noticeably. Lifestyle matters but something that everyone preaches and i know that i often forget is that supplements (esp metabolism boosters) without adequate nutrition is potentially damaging. For instance, i felt great yesterday and then i took a bit too much T3. Completely screwed up my afternoon and lowered pulse/temps. T3 and other similar supplements are awesome but in my opinion its not worth taking if you are not available to adequate nutrition. It forces your cells to create more output than they are capable of and results in a stress response. Everybody is very different but I think @ecstatichamster and @Vinero are giving sound advice. Preg & T3 are probably your safest bets in terms of hormonal supplements. Other than that, I would use taurine and good gelatin. The less, the better. I get into trouble when i take too many supplements and i assume most others are similar.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Interesting. Do you take just t3 or both t3/t4?

Both. t3 didn’t used to have much effect but now it raises my metabolism almost immediately. I think pufa depletion helped.

 

[Jsaute21]

Both. t3 didn’t used to have much effect but now it raises my metabolism almost immediately. I think pufa depletion helped.

It seems that is the way it works. I assume your T4 usage occurs before bed with a light meal?

Just curious due to T4 being trickier than T3 at least for me.

 

[Elephanto]

boron- they all actually raise estrogen

Six hours supplementation showed a significant decrease on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), high sensitive CRP (hsCRP) and TNF-α level. After one week (in samples taken at 8.00 A.M, only), the mean plasma free testosterone increased and the mean plasma estradiol decreased significantly.

Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines. - PubMed - NCBI

The only way it can increase Estrogen is by decreasing SHBG, making more Testosterone available for aromatization that is promoted by degenerative states and/or high body fat. I would still advice to combine it with anti-aromatase vitamins/minerals as a safety measure but the opposite happened here in healthy males. This fear-mongering of Boron is pretty sad, considering the impact of Fluoride on thyroid function and as it's the only effective Fluoride chelator.

Also, despite some contradicting studies, I think Progesterone is likely to be feminizing (something that Peat agrees with) and it could explain your Testosterone decrease. The increase in birth control pills use is hypothesized to having increased androgenic features (both physically and psychologically) in modern women by inhibiting Progesterone. The psychological aspect is most obviously observable. Anyway, there are probably other causes at play.

 

[Arrade]

Isn't estrogen primarily the cause of high libido

Woah hell nah