Do Carbohydrates Turn Into Fat?

[Braveheart]

Carbohydrates are NOT easily converted into body fat - fatnews.com

 

[Gadsie]

Yup old fat people have less wrinkles.

I think low fat will still be better for looking younger in the long run. Simply because you cant eat high fat without eating pretty high PUFA as well, which will cause oxidative damage in the dermis and epidermis

 

[tca300]

I think low fat will still be better for looking younger in the long run. Simply because you cant eat high fat without eating pretty high PUFA as well, which will cause oxidative damage in the dermis and epidermis

I very much agree.

 

[Travis]

Yup old fat people have less wrinkles.

Don't forget about the vitamin C! We need that for collagen production. I wonder how many wrinkles are partially a result of low vitamin C intakes and collagen synthesis? Scurvy wrinkles ➝ scunkles?

Maybe we should have a look at the Kitavans with their high-fat and high-vitamin C diets?

(Check-out Annette Larkins. She's like super old ((~74)) and doesn't appear to have any wrinkles!)

 

[Stramonium]

I've gained 10 KG (70 KG before and 1,77 cm) of muscle and FAT since I started peating more than a year ago. I've been wanting to get rid of the extra fat deposits around my belly and pecs. Now I'm starting to lower starch and fats all together which seems like the most peat like approach to accomplish this. I admit I was drinking a lot of whole milk at some point combined with potatos and masa harina arepas. At times it seems to me that Ray Peat guidelines were not working for me but I was ignoring some of the main recommendations like low starch for example. I can't deny the benefits of making OJ an staple since I haven't had a serious cold since I started but I'm also worried about the extra weight which has given me more of an estrogenic look

 

[James IV]

Well, you know there is something between low fat and high fat, you don't have to choose one or the other.
You will look older on a low fat diet, guaranteed. It's basic phisiology. Less subcutaneous fat makes you look older.

 

[tca300]

Don't forget about the vitamin C! We need that for collagen production. I wonder how many wrinkles are partially a result of low vitamin C intakes and collagen synthesis? Scurvy wrinkles ➝ scunkles?

Maybe we should have a look at the Kitavans with their high-fat and high-vitamin C diets?

(Check-out Annette Larkins. She's like super old ((~74)) and doesn't appear to have any wrinkles!)

I get over a gram per day from my food! I think thats sufficient. Hopefully.....

 

[tca300]

Well, you know there is something between low fat and high fat, you don't have to choose one or the other.
You will look older on a low fat diet, guaranteed. It's basic phisiology. Less subcutaneous fat makes you look older.

Did that for 20+ years... I feel and function way better keeping my fat intake low, but thank you for the warning.
One of my main reasons I have for eating this way is I have had heart trouble since my early teens, and eating high carbohydrates, very low fat fixes that, so for my personal needs, low fat high sugar has a specific therapeutic purpose.

 

[Travis]

I get over a gram per day from my food! I think thats sufficient. Hopefully.....

I might have you beat. I ate a watermelon, cantaloupe, and a banana today (all out of coconut, kale, and dates (must take trip to store!)).

 

[Fractality]

Even if one gains fat from high carbohydrate intake the fat will be the protective mead acid.

 

[Gadsie]

Even if one gains fat from high carbohydrate intake the fat will be the protective mead acid.

Saturated fat*
But yeah, if your fat intake (and thus pufa intake) is very very low you will also produce mead acid

 

[James IV]

Did that for 20+ years... I feel and function way better keeping my fat intake low, but thank you for the warning.
One of my main reasons I have for eating this way is I have had heart trouble since my early teens, and eating high carbohydrates, very low fat fixes that, so for my personal needs, low fat high sugar has a specific therapeutic purpose.

Glad you are doing well.

 

[Gadsie]

Basal Glycogen levels were a mean of 300 +- 30.5 mmol glucosyl units per kg wet liver tissue.

After an overnight fast following a period of normal mixed diet, the whole material (n = 19) showed a wide range of glycogen content from 87to 420 mmol glucosyl units per kg wet liver tissue with a mean of 270.9 +- 24.67 S.E.M (14.3-69.3 g glycogen per kg wet liver tissue, mean 44.7).

Refeeding with a carbohydrate-rich diet gave a rapid increase of the liver glycogen to supernormal values, 424–624 mmol glucosyl units per kg wet liver tissue.​

Note how an overnight fast barely affected liver glycogen levels -- 10% drop on average.

The refeeding protocol here was high carb low fat for several days -- a state of caloric excess that led to liver glycogen super-compensation.

I will assume a 1.5kg liver, based on measurements in males -- Normal organ weights in men: part II-the brain, lungs, liver, spleen, and kidneys. - PubMed - NCBI

Assuming the average of 3-glycosyl groups to a single glycosyl unit, we get a molecular mass of 162 Da.

Then, to convert the above values to grams:

Basal Mean: 300 / 1000 * 162 * 1.5 = 72.9 grams
Overnight fast mean: 270 / 1000 * 162 * 1.5 = 65.8 grams
24hr Starvation Low: 24 / 1000 * 162 * 1.5 = 5.8 grams
24hr Starvation High: 55 / 1000 * 162 * 1.5 = 13.3 grams
Super-compensation low: 424 / 1000 * 162 * 1.5 = 103.0 grams
Super-compensation high: 624 / 1000 * 162 * 1.5 = 151.6 grams​

How would you explain the major difference between an overnight fast and a 24 hr fast? With overnight only being a 10% drop, and the 24hr being an almost 100% drop? Or does "24hr starvation" mean something different than a 24 hr fast?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Yes and it's people like Taubes, Cordain and Lustig who perpetuate this myth. They blame potatoes and "grains" but ignore the fact that people eat potatoes in the form of french fries and potato chips, which are high fat, and grains with fat. Nobody eats potatoes low fat style except for a small number of people in the HCLF camp and those people are lean. Ask obese people what their favorite foods are. None of them are going to say "I prefer my potatoes just boiled/steamed with some seasoning and no butter, no cheese, no sour cream and no oil" or "I prefer my burrito with no cheese and no sour cream." Obese people don't just drink sugary soda and eat sugary candy. They also eat lots of fat. All of the old cultures that were lean and ate high carbohydrate never added fat to their starch. They did have fat from other sources but the Native Hawaiians never added dairy fat or veg. oil to their taro and they were not fat. Same with all of the other high carb eaters around the world. Peat talks about how the pufa you eat is the pufa you wear. Well so is the mufa olive and avocado fat and SFA fats. The fat you eat is the fat you wear, only to be burned as free fatty acids or turned into ketones at a later time. The sugar (sucrose from fruit, glucose from starch) you eat is the blood sugar you constantly burn and the liver and muscle glycogen you store. That is why your fat tissue is comprised of the type of fat you eat. If you eat a lot of fish, your tissue will have a lot of omega 3's. If you eat a lot of trans fat, your tissue will have trans fat, eat pufa oil, your tissue will be pufa filled. That is proof of fat going right into storage and this is testable. Not everyone can burn dietary fat off as muscle fuel fast enough before it's stored. Most people can’t do it which is why they are walking around with excess adipose tissue and it comes from all of the dietary fat they are eating, all fat; pufa oils, SFA dairy, mufa olive oil, omega 3 fish fat, and trans fats, but mostly veg. oil and dairy fat. People who thrive off of high fat diets have some kind of mechanism, most likely enzymes, that allows them to burn free fatty acids before storing them as fat droplets in adipose tissue. But if you gain body fat easily then it's not you.

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I understand fat is burned off by muscle tissue, for someone sho has significant muscle mass and lifted close to a decade I have found increased heat and muscle growth following half a pint to a pint hagendaz a night and increase in cheese/butter. I believe I have found that on really low fat my adrenaline/cortisol rises as a way to liberate some fatty acids so my muscles don't starve.

Should I continue a higher fat diet?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thus, the dietary substitution of carbohydrate for fat stimulated fatty acid synthesis and the plasma accumulation of palmitate-enriched, linoleate-deficient triglyceride. Such changes could have adverse effects on the cardiovascular system.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

.

 

[Travis]

Thus, the dietary substitution of carbohydrate for fat stimulated fatty acid synthesis and the plasma accumulation of palmitate-enriched, linoleate-deficient triglyceride. Such changes could have adverse effects on the cardiovascular system.

By lowering thromboxane?

 

[smith]

Does Mead Acid ("omega-9") stimulate Subcutaneous fat production?

 

[smith]

So, fruit sugar does not turn into fat? Does starch turn into fat?

it's PUFA. the only time I ever got fatter in my life was when I was eating a lot of guacamole

 

[PolishSun]

If I understand it correct, one has to lower stress hormones in order not to produce fat from carbs (like lower cortisol with DHEA or smth else). That's why RP advised to use hormones until person gets healthier.