DIY Mitolipin Anyone?

DNM

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Aug 19, 2019
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Suppose one has three ingredients:
  1. Liquid sunflower lecithin (PC)
  2. Stearic acid flakes (SA)
  3. Isopropyl myristate (IM)
How would one go about making a DIY Mitolipin-like product (saturated phosphatidylcholine), minus the vitamin E?

The reason for this is that -- although I have some Mitolipin and think it's a good product -- I don't want to have to limit my consumption or application to the body due to concerns of getting too much vitamin E (toxicity, inhibition of vascular remodelling, etc.). Also, I've heard that lecithin-based liquids are a good carrier for many things, but I don't want to rub vitamin E on certain parts of my body (e.g., genitals), as I've heard that it has progesterone-like effects. The application sites of Mitolipin are thus limited, as are the amounts you can use if you don't want to take in too much vitamin E.

Is there anyone who has made their own saturated lecithin/PC? I have tried heating IM and SA flakes together in a double boiler-style warm water bath using a 5:1 ratio IM:SA, and it made a nice solid but spreadable cream. I imagine I could up the IM:SA ratio to make it more liquidous and then add warmed lecithin (still in a warm water bath) until there is enough to saturate it with the fatty acids in the IM and SA. Then stir vigorously with a stainless steal whisk for a good while, and then transfer to a glass container placed in a jewelry cleaner++ (for high freq. vibrations) and continue to whisk for 10-20m to make liposomes around the IM/SA fatty acids. The things I don't know are (1) ratios to achieve well saturated lecithin/PC, as well as (2) how to make it cream- or gel-like (think "phlojel"). I thought I'd ask whether anyone out there had a recipe or had the chemistry knowledge to help out.

++Yes, I have a lot of gadgets.

[edit: grammar, 'n stuff]
 
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BRMarshall

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Interesting....I like the original product, but the thought of potentiating capabilities through self reliance is an intreaging possibility to consider. First some understanding of the chemistry of going from a saturate to an unsaturated would be great.

Also I would like to know how one might make one's own vitamin e from wheat germ?

Thanks for the post!
 

Cloudhands

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988
Maybe you could mix the two in an ultrasonic cleaner. I know that people who are really into vitamin C and linus pauling recommendations create lipophyllic vitamin C this way
 
OP
D

DNM

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Maybe you could mix the two in an ultrasonic cleaner. I know that people who are really into vitamin C and linus pauling recommendations create lipophyllic vitamin C this way

Yep, that's what I mentioned doing. It's just the ratios that I don't know. How much IM and SA I should add to how much PC, that is.

Meantime, I found this article Development of Lecithin Nanoemulsion Based Organogels for Permeation Enhancement of Metoprolol through Rat Skin, which might be useful for the development of a lecithin-based transdermal, once I decrypt all of the scientific shorthand, so to speak.
 
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S-VV

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The problem with commercial lecithin is that the actual percentage of phospholipids is quite low, and the resulting emulsions and micelles are of bad quality. There exists purified PL with a higher %, but its quite expensive. At those price levels, might as well get the finished PLO.

I researched this for trying topical testosterone.
 
OP
D

DNM

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The problem with commercial lecithin is that the actual percentage of phospholipids is quite low, and the resulting emulsions and micelles are of bad quality. There exists purified PL with a higher %, but its quite expensive. At those price levels, might as well get the finished PLO.

I researched this for trying topical testosterone.

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know the various grades of lecithin. The phlojel crowd never say what's really in their stuff. In any event, my lecithin and IM are pretty cheap, as are the (3 LBS OF!) SA flakes I have. I'll see what I can make, as far as topical saturated(ish) PC goes.
 
OP
D

DNM

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Maybe the proverbial horse's mouth, @haidut, could offer some advice. Or maybe he could offer a vitamin E-free variant of Mitolipin. Presumably, it would even cheaper to produce. [edit: vitamin E, not D]
 
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D

DNM

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Update, for those interested. I took some isopropyl myristate (IM) and liquid sunflower lecithin ("PC", although it only has about 15% phosphatidyl choline and 12% phosphatidyl inositol) in a roughly 40:60 ratio -- the paper I cited above recommended no less than 30:70 and no more than 50:50, IM:PC. I went a little high on the PC, because I was also adding stearic acid (SA), and I wanted a bit more power to emulsify things. Here's roughly what I did:

  1. Place the IM and SA (0.5 cup and 1 tbs + 1 tsp, resp.) in a wide-mouthed glass jar placed in a hot water bath and run a "stick" immersion blender made of stainless steel on high for 2 minutes or until the SA is dissolved in the IM.
  2. Add 1 tsp of liquid lanolin (IM is known for its ability to dissolve lanonlin, so why not get some cholesterol in there?).
  3. Add 1/3 cup liquid sunflower lecithin (="PC"). Run the "stick" blender on high for another 2 minutes. (All the while keeping things warm in the hot water bath.)
  4. Drizzle in some warm distilled water with the blender continuously running until you have a thick lotion-like substance. Continue running for 2 minutes after the lotion forms.
  5. Place glass jar in an ultrasonic cleaner filled up a few inches with water around the glass jar for 20m, stirring occasionally.
I then rubbed about a tablespoon on my sides ("love handles"), arms, a little bit under my eyes, etc. and went to bed. 30m later I woke up really hot and wanted to kick off my covers, similar to the feeling of lying in bed after a hot bath. I take this to mean that this was a somewhat successful experiment in saturating PC.
 

Cloudhands

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@Amazoniac I recall seeing you criticize the concept and the sources used to justify the concept of mitolipin, do you have any comments on this method and dosage?
 

Amazoniac

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@Amazoniac I recall seeing you criticize the concept and the sources used to justify the concept of mitolipin, do you have any comments on this method and dosage?
It's remarkable that Jorge sourced saturated phosphatidylcholines, I'm against adding vitamin E to it and trivializing its presence.

I think that phosphatidylcholine molecules are only being rearranged rather than having their composition changed. If this is the case, it doesn't matter if the consistency is altered or there are additional ingredients because the body will metabolize them separately. Transdermal absorption may also mean skipping an extra step that could prevent circulation of molecules with undesired fats (in particular if skin barrier is disrupted), there can be partial and complete fatty acid cleavage from phosphatidylcholine at the intestine.
 

ddjd

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@DNM any updates on this.... Did you manage to make either dipalmitoylphosphatidylcholine (DPPC) or distearoylphosphatidylcholine (DSPC)??
 

ddjd

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Suppose one has three ingredients:
  1. Liquid sunflower lecithin (PC)
  2. Stearic acid flakes (SA)
  3. Isopropyl myristate (IM)
How would one go about making a DIY Mitolipin-like product (saturated phosphatidylcholine), minus the vitamin E?

The reason for this is that -- although I have some Mitolipin and think it's a good product -- I don't want to have to limit my consumption or application to the body due to concerns of getting too much vitamin E (toxicity, inhibition of vascular remodelling, etc.). Also, I've heard that lecithin-based liquids are a good carrier for many things, but I don't want to rub vitamin E on certain parts of my body (e.g., genitals), as I've heard that it has progesterone-like effects. The application sites of Mitolipin are thus limited, as are the amounts you can use if you don't want to take in too much vitamin E.

Is there anyone who has made their own saturated lecithin/PC? I have tried heating IM and SA flakes together in a double boiler-style warm water bath using a 5:1 ratio IM:SA, and it made a nice solid but spreadable cream. I imagine I could up the IM:SA ratio to make it more liquidous and then add warmed lecithin (still in a warm water bath) until there is enough to saturate it with the fatty acids in the IM and SA. Then stir vigorously with a stainless steal whisk for a good while, and then transfer to a glass container placed in a jewelry cleaner++ (for high freq. vibrations) and continue to whisk for 10-20m to make liposomes around the IM/SA fatty acids. The things I don't know are (1) ratios to achieve well saturated lecithin/PC, as well as (2) how to make it cream- or gel-like (think "phlojel"). I thought I'd ask whether anyone out there had a recipe or had the chemistry knowledge to help out.

++Yes, I have a lot of gadgets.

[edit: grammar, 'n stuff]
Just an idea.

Try taking CDP Choline with saturated fat and b1.

I'm pretty sure this converts to saturated PC

Ed4BLIiOMxc1XDf7OwUpuYodvAaFXWuReEIBBa7QV5SbTy7np35udMlWPldLK6Rb4KXABOkmTBZtJdoMNYvCSWne_cQl1HtUkiQawg031dxnTyQD0nEsWGUgBUdSZTw3hob07E4g=s0
 
Last edited:
OP
D

DNM

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Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
16
@DNM any updates on this.... Did you manage to make either dipalmitoylphosphatidylcholine (DPPC) or distearoylphosphatidylcholine (DSPC)??
I wouldn't know whether I had. No way of testing that.
 

lamassu

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canada
Suppose one has three ingredients:
  1. Liquid sunflower lecithin (PC)
  2. Stearic acid flakes (SA)
  3. Isopropyl myristate (IM)
How would one go about making a DIY Mitolipin-like product (saturated phosphatidylcholine), minus the vitamin E?

The reason for this is that -- although I have some Mitolipin and think it's a good product -- I don't want to have to limit my consumption or application to the body due to concerns of getting too much vitamin E (toxicity, inhibition of vascular remodelling, etc.). Also, I've heard that lecithin-based liquids are a good carrier for many things, but I don't want to rub vitamin E on certain parts of my body (e.g., genitals), as I've heard that it has progesterone-like effects. The application sites of Mitolipin are thus limited, as are the amounts you can use if you don't want to take in too much vitamin E.

Is there anyone who has made their own saturated lecithin/PC? I have tried heating IM and SA flakes together in a double boiler-style warm water bath using a 5:1 ratio IM:SA, and it made a nice solid but spreadable cream. I imagine I could up the IM:SA ratio to make it more liquidous and then add warmed lecithin (still in a warm water bath) until there is enough to saturate it with the fatty acids in the IM and SA. Then stir vigorously with a stainless steal whisk for a good while, and then transfer to a glass container placed in a jewelry cleaner++ (for high freq. vibrations) and continue to whisk for 10-20m to make liposomes around the IM/SA fatty acids. The things I don't know are (1) ratios to achieve well saturated lecithin/PC, as well as (2) how to make it cream- or gel-like (think "phlojel"). I thought I'd ask whether anyone out there had a recipe or had the chemistry knowledge to help out.

++Yes, I have a lot of gadgets.

[edit: grammar, 'n stuff]
Can you elaborate on the effects of vitamin E you are trying to avoid? Particularly you think its a problem for genital application? Thank you in advance
 

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