Dietary type 2 resistant starch improves systemic inflammation and intestinal permeability?

mrchibbs

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I think we all need to remember that Ray Peat's name is on this site and we need to respect that. I appreciate your calm and kind words. You have a good evening too! ?

For sure, but it's not his site, he's not affiliated with it in any way and doesn't really care what goes on here!
 
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For sure, but it's not his site, he's not affiliated with it in any way and doesn't really care what goes on here!
He cares....
"I have been hearing about some of the absurd recommendations that are being falsely associated with me, and I want to find reliable information about the person’s identity." -Ray Peat

I know he did not create this site, but he doesn't appreciate being misquoted here. The name of this site is misleading, and I don't think it was intended to be. It was much more on track with what Ray Peat people want years ago.
 
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"There are lots of insane proposals on the internet, and that forum seems to be meeting its cuota." -Ray Peat
 

Dr. B

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Still, I don't think there should be any pressure or censorship on this forum though.

Considering the climate in which we live in, I think it's important we make an effort to discuss everything openly.

Vitamin A toxicity was a big "Anti-Peat" idea a few years back and I think everybody grew from the discussion.
Peat himself has said limiting vitamin A to 5000IU if metabolism is slow, and avoiding carotenes, carotenoids in general besides a small carrot salad.
that anti vitamin A thread is still flagged as anti Peat, that concept is about totally limiting vitamin A as much as you can
 

Dr. B

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"There are lots of insane proposals on the internet, and that forum seems to be meeting its cuota." -Ray Peat
good one, lol! theres also another where he said its better to read physiology books instead of reading the great trash heap known as the internet
 
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good one, lol! theres also another where he said its better to read physiology books instead of reading the great trash heap known as the internet
Oh yeah i for about that one! Your post with your e-mails to him is my all time favorite post! You need to put the rest of your stuff up ?
 

mrchibbs

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Peat himself has said limiting vitamin A to 5000IU if metabolism is slow, and avoiding carotenes, carotenoids in general besides a small carrot salad.
that anti vitamin A thread is still flagged as anti Peat, that concept is about totally limiting vitamin A as much as you can

Oh I know, if you'd read my comments on that thread I was saying this early on. But it did bring a greater awareness of the relationship between vitamin A and thyroid, and how vitamin E and C prevent oxidation of vitamin A.
 

Dr. B

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Oh yeah i for about that one! Your post with your e-mails to him is my all time favorite post! You need to put the rest of your stuff up ?
i did post everything properly formatted in the depository thread maybe one or two weeks ago.
I think it is everything or maybe 95% or more.
there are a few unanswered emails I sent him which I haven't posted anywhere, which id like to get answers on eventually!

Oh I know, if you'd read my comments on that thread I was saying this early on. But it did bring a greater awareness of the relationship between vitamin A and thyroid, and how vitamin E and C prevent oxidation of vitamin A.

oh interesting, does vitamin C also have an effect on lipid peroxidation?
im not sure about vitamin E but doesnt vitamin c supplementation have a lot of issues. it can antagonize copper and even zinc and calcium.
 
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i did post everything properly formatted in the depository thread maybe one or two weeks ago.
I think it is everything or maybe 95% or more.
there are a few unanswered emails I sent him which I haven't posted anywhere, which id like to get answers on eventually!



oh interesting, does vitamin C also have an effect on lipid peroxidation?
im not sure about vitamin E but doesnt vitamin c supplementation have a lot of issues. it can antagonize copper and even zinc and calcium.

Oh so you only posted the one?
 
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good one, lol! theres also another where he said its better to read physiology books instead of reading the great trash heap known as the internet

This one was another good one!

"Occasionally, phobic ideas about nutrients circulate, including places like the raypeatforum, and milk phobia seems to be a chronic cultural problem." -Ray Peat
 

DrJ

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@salvio Not sure why you're getting the hate. Peat recommends potatoes for people with reasonably good digestion and he has to be aware of resistant starch since he clearly knows about the different types of fibers and their effects. Maybe some people don't realize RS is not the same as fiber. But given how lazily people speak about unqualified 'fiber' when it has many taxonomies it's no surprise there's lots of confusion.

I personally have had really good results from some types of resistant starches so maybe people would be interested in case it helps their gut problems. For me, it has been potatoes that have been baked in some way. It makes me deuce bomb like a champ. As fast or faster than taking a leak and no need for toilet paper. Notably I don't get this effect from french fries or pan-fried potatoes, or some other RS sources like beans. But my reading informs there are even different types of RS, so maybe there is a pattern there I haven't figured out. I think the baked potato RS would generally be a mixture of "RS2" and "RS3" depending on how well it was cooked and when it was consumed.

RS is well-known to support butyric acid production, and butyric acid is well-known to be a energy for the enterocytes that line the gut, allowing them to maintain good barrier function which is I think is universally agreed upon whether from Peat or other camps. The evidence that good butyric acid production in the colon is protective against cancer and ulcerative colitis seems strong.

But yeah for me it's a net positive from potatoes that have been baked. Excellent digestion, the lower part of my stomach gets noticeably flatter, and I feel a feeling of more 'oneness' if that makes sense and doesn't sound too kooky :). Someone else brought it up on the forum at one point, but in the William Brown diet with basically no fat that Ray often mentions for its remarkable results, they happened to include a potato starch biscuit which could clearly impact the microbiome and it's interesting to consider that as a possible contributor (in addition to the low fat) of the positive result Brown achieved, even if minor.
 

Dr. B

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@salvio Not sure why you're getting the hate. Peat recommends potatoes for people with reasonably good digestion and he has to be aware of resistant starch since he clearly knows about the different types of fibers and their effects. Maybe some people don't realize RS is not the same as fiber. But given how lazily people speak about unqualified 'fiber' when it has many taxonomies it's no surprise there's lots of confusion.

I personally have had really good results from some types of resistant starches so maybe people would be interested in case it helps their gut problems. For me, it has been potatoes that have been baked in some way. It makes me deuce bomb like a champ. As fast or faster than taking a leak and no need for toilet paper. Notably I don't get this effect from french fries or pan-fried potatoes, or some other RS sources like beans. But my reading informs there are even different types of RS, so maybe there is a pattern there I haven't figured out. I think the baked potato RS would generally be a mixture of "RS2" and "RS3" depending on how well it was cooked and when it was consumed.

RS is well-known to support butyric acid production, and butyric acid is well-known to be a energy for the enterocytes that line the gut, allowing them to maintain good barrier function which is I think is universally agreed upon whether from Peat or other camps. The evidence that good butyric acid production in the colon is protective against cancer and ulcerative colitis seems strong.

But yeah for me it's a net positive from potatoes that have been baked. Excellent digestion, the lower part of my stomach gets noticeably flatter, and I feel a feeling of more 'oneness' if that makes sense and doesn't sound too kooky :). Someone else brought it up on the forum at one point, but in the William Brown diet with basically no fat that Ray often mentions for its remarkable results, they happened to include a potato starch biscuit which could clearly impact the microbiome and it's interesting to consider that as a possible contributor (in addition to the low fat) of the positive result Brown achieved, even if minor.
what do you think of butyric acid supplements? there's a few good options available, i tried some and they smell totally horrible. the smell is like literal vomit or something. they also use capsules which you can take apart, so not air tight softgels. once you even touch a capsule, the smell gets over your fingers and they smell. i think the company is called bodybio or something on amazon.
you dont need toilet paper if you eat potatoes? how, how is that possible?
 

DrJ

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what do you think of butyric acid supplements? there's a few good options available, i tried some and they smell totally horrible. the smell is like literal vomit or something. they also use capsules which you can take apart, so not air tight softgels. once you even touch a capsule, the smell gets over your fingers and they smell. i think the company is called bodybio or something on amazon.
you dont need toilet paper if you eat potatoes? how, how is that possible?
I think that's a real interesting question! It's something I've investigated a bit probably for the same reasons you did and basically what I concluded was: (1) smell risk, and (2) it doesn't really seem to make it to the colon well based on what I read.

Yeah but notice I said baked potatoes, not fried. Also I should note I'm always consuming a lot of dairy and I think the calcium helps, but notably dairy alone does not reliably achieve this effect for me.
 

dabdabdab

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I think that's a real interesting question! It's something I've investigated a bit probably for the same reasons you did and basically what I concluded was: (1) smell risk, and (2) it doesn't really seem to make it to the colon well based on what I read.

Yeah but notice I said baked potatoes, not fried. Also I should note I'm always consuming a lot of dairy and I think the calcium helps, but notably dairy alone does not reliably achieve this effect for me.
how do you bake and eat it? what other ingredients do you add? does it help with weight loss?

people have reported amazing mental clarity better than any Nootropics and better weight keeping by taking activated charcoal, apeareantly anything that increase gut transient speed will lower endotoxins and serotonin effectively.

I wonder if that would prove fibers to have more beneficial effect than negatives since the toxins created by bacteria will not have much time to be absorbed by the intestine due to fast transient time.
any idea about this?
 

youngsinatra

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I certainly appreciate Ray Peat‘s view of digestion and the microbiome, but something about it feels incomplete to me. Ray and Danny are both very sensitive to a lot of foods, which to me seems like the problem is symptomatically relieved but not actually fixed. I actually see a lot of similarities with elimination diets like AIP or carnivore, where people are almost sort of stuck in that food restriction for a life time.

I have IBS myself, so I know how it feels to become more and more restricted in food choices due to digestive issues. Eating a raw carrot salad or well cooked mushrooms certainly helped me with the consequences of gut dysbiosis and all the other possible gut dysfunctions that I have, but it never made me able to eat relatively normal. I am still severely restricted.

I am open to exploring other avenues of research in this area. I think stool transplant is a very interesting therapy for IBS, IBD, Crohn‘s or Colitis with a very high success rate of actually fixing the disease.
 

Dr. B

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I certainly appreciate Ray Peat‘s view of digestion and the microbiome, but something about it feels incomplete to me. Ray and Danny are both very sensitive to a lot of foods, which to me seems like the problem is symptomatically relieved but not actually fixed. I actually see a lot of similarities with elimination diets like AIP or carnivore, where people are almost sort of stuck in that food restriction for a life time.

I have IBS myself, so I know how it feels to become more and more restricted in food choices due to digestive issues. Eating a raw carrot salad or well cooked mushrooms certainly helped me with the consequences of gut dysbiosis and all the other possible gut dysfunctions that I have, but it never made me able to eat relatively normal. I am still severely restricted.

I am open to exploring other avenues of research in this area. I think stool transplant is a very interesting therapy for IBS, IBD, Crohn‘s or Colitis with a very high success rate of actually fixing the disease.
raw milk or milk could help? cutting out bad foods, using milk, maybe helps with sensitivities?
 

SamYo123

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how do you bake and eat it? what other ingredients do you add? does it help with weight loss?

people have reported amazing mental clarity better than any Nootropics and better weight keeping by taking activated charcoal, apeareantly anything that increase gut transient speed will lower endotoxins and serotonin effectively.

I wonder if that would prove fibers to have more beneficial effect than negatives since the toxins created by bacteria will not have much time to be absorbed by the intestine due to fast transient time.
any idea about this?
"people have reported amazing mental clarity better than any Nootropics and better weight keeping by taking activated charcoal, apeareantly anything that increase gut transient speed will lower endotoxins and serotonin effectively."

Ok so oat bran for example makes me have 2-3 good bowl movements a day... but it also causes very smelly gassy farts.. that surely is endotoxin.. Its not a time thing to adapt either.. since its been 2 weeks consistent like this...
 

moa

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Its not a time thing to adapt either.. since its been 2 weeks consistent like this...
i think it takes longer to adapt, cause lack of bacteria to digest it.

also some bacteria hide years inside mitochondria, and some need to take DNA from other bacteria to be able to digest new food.

also i think oatmeals are not the best food, first i think is important to restore good bacteria in general than to make that good bacteria adapt to new type of fibers.

i too believe the way people are using the Ray Peat ideas here is sometimes not accurate. especially regarding acetylcholine and the gut microbiota.

i think starch is generally not an ideal food for the mammalian species, but humans have evolved to be able to digest starch much better. that doesn't mean it's easy to digest, but a completely heathy person should have no difficulty digesting potatoes and some other starch.

carrots are very good for gut health. in Romania, the traditional method when people had gut intoxication it gastritis was a 3 step :
- fasting for 1 day or so
- eating well cooked carrots for 1 or 2 days
- eating only starch for a few days after that

I've if the foods that was supposed to be very good was white rice well cooked sticky, but before rice they used very well cooked polenta, liquid polenta (solid polenta you cannot cook it for 15 minutes).

liquid polenta cooked for 15 minutes at least in boiling water was considered food for gut problems.

it's interesting that in the first phase, it's carrots, cooked carrots, meaning that carrots have something good for digestion and it's not the raw fiber.

fruit, salad, beans, uncooked food, meat, garlic, onions, mushrooms etc .. were all traditionally considered forbidden foods when you have gut problems.

milk was used sometimes with starch, later, not on its own.

for most cases, cooked carrots are used only one day, mashed. then they are not used at all in the last phase, the longest phase of eating well cooked starch.

i think it's the pectin, and maybe the bulk from cooked cellulose that is just used to give something to the gut Flora cause i think the week child starch in small amounts is not producing anything in the colon (gets absorbed completely).

so the carrot is only putting something in the colon, prebiotic, and that's why it's used only once.

if the carrot was used to clean and move things they would use the raw and use it the following days mixed with starch, but no, it's only used one day or sometime two days if the person is very bad, than stopped completely, never used again even if the person needs 10 days to recover completely, only well cooked starch is used after that.
 
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