Dietary sugar can treat chronic depression

haidut

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Not much to comment on here, except to point out that the sugar "addiction" in depressed people has been recognized by medicine for at least 50 years and has always been treated as a co-morbidity of the depressed state, also in need of treatment. Doctors have been advising depressed patients to resist the urge to load up on sugar, warning that such "binges" would have detrimental effects both on mood and the systemic health of the patient. Well, the study below begs to disagree and demonstrates once again (just as the infamous Rat Park experiment did 50 years ago) that most "addictive" behavior is simply a desperate attempt at self-medication. And in the case of sugar, it is actually truly therapeutic and much safer than the toxic SSRI drugs modern medicine dispenses like candy (put not intended) to patients of all age groups (even babies). Yet, the popular press article still cautions people to not "sugar binge" as that may have detrimental effects on health. As the saying goes - some people never learn...and it ain't the patients in this case:):

Octopamine mediates sugar relief from a chronic-stress-induced depression-like state in Drosophila

"...
  • Feeding sugars or octopamine (OA) can alleviate a depression-like state in Drosophila
..."

JGU researchers seek to gain a better understanding of depression

"...The researchers' investigations showed that the pathway was considerably more complex than anticipated. Three different neurotransmitter systems have to be activated until the serotonin deficiency at the mushroom body, which is present in flies in a DLS, is compensated for by reward. One of these three systems is the dopaminergic system, which also signals reward in humans. In view of these findings, however, human beings should not assume that it would be a good idea to consume foods with a high sugar content accordingly. Flies perceive sweetness as a reward, whereas humans can achieve the same effect by other and more healthy means."
 

joaquin

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I can attest to this. I have recently increased my sugar consumption and my mood has been remarkably better. Plus a rash on the back of my thighs finally went away. I have started drinking root beer made with cane sugar and also Dr Pepper. I probably have four or five a day.
 
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we have some fruitflies in our kitchen. They seemed very depressed. So we gave them sugar and they perked right up.

(Jokes are good for lowering depression.)
 

Vins7

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I can attest to this. I have recently increased my sugar consumption and my mood has been remarkably better. Plus a rash on the back of my thighs finally went away. I have started drinking root beer made with cane sugar and also Dr Pepper. I probably have four or five a day.
When you talk about sugar, are you referring to refined sugar or sugar from natural foods?
 

joaquin

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When you talk about sugar, are you referring to refined sugar or sugar from natural foods?
Both. I drink sodas with sugar, Dr Pepper, and some locally made root beet with cane sugar plus lots of apples and sometimes bananas.
When I started increasing the amount of the sugar daily I noticed a big lift in my mood. However, after a few weeks my energy levels seem to be dragging. Not sure what to do except go back to low carb?
 

TheSir

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When I started increasing the amount of the sugar daily I noticed a big lift in my mood. However, after a few weeks my energy levels seem to be dragging. Not sure what to do except go back to low carb?
There is a sweet honeymoom period to any rewarding psychoactive substance. The subsequent crash implies that no real metabolic improvements have been achieved, rather only the reward centers have been depleted of all the goodies. Dopamine does improve thyroid, but there is only so much you can milk your body of dopamine with exogenous substances before the pursuit becomes countetproductive.
 

joaquin

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There is a sweet honeymoom period to any rewarding psychoactive substance. The subsequent crash implies that no real metabolic improvements have been achieved, rather only the reward centers have been depleted of all the goodies. Dopamine does improve thyroid, but there is only so much you can milk your body of dopamine with exogenous substances before the pursuit becomes countetproductive.
That is the best and simplest explanation.
 
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Interestingly enough, even after the period of sugar honeymoon, you may not feel "high" from sweets, it can even become repulsive if it's too much, but the antidepressant effects will still be there due to their increase in energy in the body.
 

Runenight201

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There is a sweet honeymoom period to any rewarding psychoactive substance. The subsequent crash implies that no real metabolic improvements have been achieved, rather only the reward centers have been depleted of all the goodies. Dopamine does improve thyroid, but there is only so much you can milk your body of dopamine with exogenous substances before the pursuit becomes countetproductive.

I recall when I first came upon RayPeat I drank a ton of OJ, milk, and soda and felt more euphoric than I ever had in a long time. Just as you said this did not last and I as of late have been super unstable. When the reward centers have been depleted of all the goodies do depression/ahedonia/executive dysfunction proceed? Cuz I experienced a solid year where I could not motivate myself to do the mundane tasks of living, like my brain was broken. I'm sure it's just functioning terribly and I have to eat and work to get it functioning correctly again.

I would caution anyone from consuming refined sugar. I do not believe it to be the well from which we should gather our energy and strength from. I was listening to Andrew Huberman and he stated that in men, optimal hormonal function makes effort feel good, and it connected some dots in me because I have so many dreams but every step to acheive them is a physically torturous process, and it's stunted me from achieving any of them. This is not natural or good. I believe it should feel good to work towards our goals. Discipline should feel good.
 

joaquin

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I recall when I first came upon RayPeat I drank a ton of OJ, milk, and soda and felt more euphoric than I ever had in a long time. Just as you said this did not last and I as of late have been super unstable. When the reward centers have been depleted of all the goodies do depression/ahedonia/executive dysfunction proceed? Cuz I experienced a solid year where I could not motivate myself to do the mundane tasks of living, like my brain was broken. I'm sure it's just functioning terribly and I have to eat and work to get it functioning correctly again.

I would caution anyone from consuming refined sugar. I do not believe it to be the well from which we should gather our energy and strength from. I was listening to Andrew Huberman and he stated that in men, optimal hormonal function makes effort feel good, and it connected some dots in me because I have so many dreams but every step to acheive them is a physically torturous process, and it's stunted me from achieving any of them. This is not natural or good. I believe it should feel good to work towards our goals. Discipline should feel good.
Good observations/hypotheses. I can tell that my executive function is not where it was just a while back. Anhedonia also is creeping back.
 

cs3000

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"It was already known that the flies have sugar receptors on their tarsi, i.e., the lower part of their legs"
If sugar is so good why don't humans have this on their hands
 

tankasnowgod

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Well, the study below begs to disagree and demonstrates once again (just as the infamous Rat Park experiment did 50 years ago) that most "addictive" behavior is simply a desperate attempt at self-medication. And in the case of sugar, it is actually truly therapeutic and much safer than the toxic SSRI drugs modern medicine dispenses like candy (put not intended) to patients of all age groups (even babies).
This reminds me of some points Anthony Colpo made in an article about sugar a while back. He thought the comparisons of sugar to drugs and alcohol and such were utterly ridiculous. As he pointed out under a caption under a picture of Dee Dee Ramone-

This is Douglas Glenn Colvin, better known as Dee Dee Ramone, bass player and songwriter for the greatest musical band ever to grace this planet: The Ramones. The popular and likeable Dee Dee was a long-time heroin user, and was found dead on June 5, 2002 by his wife Barbara. He was 50 years old. An autopsy established heroin overdose as the cause of death. Again, I really, really wish Dee Dee had chosen Oreos as his ‘drug’ of choice, instead of smack. If so, he’d still be with us today, and I could go see him and Marky Ramone playing Ramones covers at The Corner. But he’s not, and so I can’t. Tell me again how sugar is just as addictive and destructive as heroin?
 
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joaquin

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Not much to comment on here, except to point out that the sugar "addiction" in depressed people has been recognized by medicine for at least 50 years and has always been treated as a co-morbidity of the depressed state, also in need of treatment. Doctors have been advising depressed patients to resist the urge to load up on sugar, warning that such "binges" would have detrimental effects both on mood and the systemic health of the patient. Well, the study below begs to disagree and demonstrates once again (just as the infamous Rat Park experiment did 50 years ago) that most "addictive" behavior is simply a desperate attempt at self-medication. And in the case of sugar, it is actually truly therapeutic and much safer than the toxic SSRI drugs modern medicine dispenses like candy (put not intended) to patients of all age groups (even babies). Yet, the popular press article still cautions people to not "sugar binge" as that may have detrimental effects on health. As the saying goes - some people never learn...and it ain't the patients in this case:):

Octopamine mediates sugar relief from a chronic-stress-induced depression-like state in Drosophila

"...
  • Feeding sugars or octopamine (OA) can alleviate a depression-like state in Drosophila
..."

JGU researchers seek to gain a better understanding of depression

"...The researchers' investigations showed that the pathway was considerably more complex than anticipated. Three different neurotransmitter systems have to be activated until the serotonin deficiency at the mushroom body, which is present in flies in a DLS, is compensated for by reward. One of these three systems is the dopaminergic system, which also signals reward in humans. In view of these findings, however, human beings should not assume that it would be a good idea to consume foods with a high sugar content accordingly. Flies perceive sweetness as a reward, whereas humans can achieve the same effect by other and more healthy means."
Well I just switched to Simply Lemonade. Which is water, lemon juice, and added cane sugar.

Life changing. At least compared to orange juice which sweetness/bio-alliable sugar varies greatly. I add 1/4 tablespoon of baking soda to nuetrilize any citric acid into citrates and it's a cortisol wrecker.
 

joaquin

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Well I just switched to Simply Lemonade. Which is water, lemon juice, and added cane sugar.

Life changing. At least compared to orange juice which sweetness/bio-alliable sugar varies greatly. I add 1/4 tablespoon of baking soda to nuetrilize any citric acid into citrates and it's a cortisol wrecker.
I will try this. What ratio? Is it 1/4 tablespoon per gallon?
 
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I will try this. What ratio? Is it 1/4 tablespoon per gallon?
Yeah I drink it with protein/meals so Id rather have it be net acidic going down, since the citrates will convert to bicarbonate in the body its net alkalinizing. I don't want excess bicarbonate neutralizing stomach acid.

I'm craving a glass right now it's at the house. Gonna pick up more on way home.

Im skeptical on how much sucrose is bioavailable in OJ. I've been on OJ for 5 years and ready to make a complete pivot after like 2 days on lemonade.

I put down jug yesterday which I think is 210 grams of sucrose.
 

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