Dietary Sources Of Vitamin E?

Francisco

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I have come to realize I am likely deficient in vitamin E.
Many sources of vitamin E are high in PUFA. Where should I get my vitamin E from?
 

schultz

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This is one of the cases where I would recommend supplementation (assuming you want to get vitamin E, I am not saying everybody has to supplement it)

It's just not high in foods unless there is high PUFA. The vitamin E is there to help keep the PUFA in the food stable I suppose.

Sometimes I get a little bit from fruits, but it is not very much. Like 500g of grapes has 13% of my RDA. Eggs can have it if the chickens are supplemented or they are getting it naturally in their diet, but then again there is PUFA in eggs.

Someone once mentioned that beef liver had some kind of form that was a bit different then the normal form, but I don't remember who said it and I don't remember any other details. Hopefully somebody else knows? Nutrition databases don't always list every nutrient, like the vitamin K in beef liver (which is in the form of like Mk10-13)
 

inurendotoxin

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I believe Peat has said if you regularly take Coconut oil you don't need Vitamin E. But yes that has always seemed something of a Peatarian paradox for me. So Vitamin E is anti-estrogen etc yet it's predominantly found (and sourced) from PUFA oils (Soy and Wheatgerm). What the role of Vitamin E plays in the plants themselves seems a bit of a mystery. Olive oil has a tiny amount as well, I understand.

But yeah, for the amount needed to have an effect I agree supplementation is best.
 

mrchibbs

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I think during the first few years of recovery, daily vitamin E supplementation is probably essential.
One thing you notice, especially if you've got some body fat, is the accumulation of lipofuscin as you eat more vitamin A rich foods.
Sun exposure when tissues are still loaded with PUFAs has been known to lead to spot formations on the skin.

Ray has said in interviews this year that vitamin E helps to protect from the oxidation of the PUFAs AND Vitamin A, which is also an unsaturated molecule.

Of course, as the turnaround of fat tissues happens, the PUFAs get depleted, and the thyroid function improves, which allows the vitamin A to be used fully by the liver, ending the need for vitamin E. So track your pulse and temperatures, build your muscles and lose your excess fat, and within a few years vitamin E probably won't be as necessary, but monthly or weekly supplementation might remain very beneficial.
 

YourUniverse

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I believe Peat has said if you regularly take Coconut oil you don't need Vitamin E. But yes that has always seemed something of a Peatarian paradox for me. So Vitamin E is anti-estrogen etc yet it's predominantly found (and sourced) from PUFA oils (Soy and Wheatgerm). What the role of Vitamin E plays in the plants themselves seems a bit of a mystery. Olive oil has a tiny amount as well, I understand.

But yeah, for the amount needed to have an effect I agree supplementation is best.
I dont think thats a paradox, PUFA are estrogenic and vitamin E is their stabilizer (anti-estrogen). Most of us have un-countered PUFA in our tissues, so we would need un-countered vitamin E to balance
 

schultz

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Yah I'm not sure it's a paradox. Isn't it there to keep unsaturated fat stable? I tend not to think of it like other vitamins in that you need to get 'x' amount per day to meet a requirement. I think of it more like a 'drug', like aspirin or something.

Ray has said in interviews this year that vitamin E helps to protect from the oxidation of the PUFAs AND Vitamin A, which is also an unsaturated molecule.

This is true. In chickens if you supplement them vitamin A then the amount of vitamin E in the egg is reduced. I think in high concentrations vitamin A can stimulate lipid peroxidation, and in chickens (and rats) it can reduce the amount of vitamin C being made and reduce the amount of vitamin C in the liver. Vitamin A can be a pro-oxidant or anti-oxidant, just like vitamin E and C, depending on the concentration (this is my current understanding). Vitamin C can be used to return oxidized vitamin E back to its reduced form. So it's possible that the massive amount of vitamin A in a chick is encouraging lipid peroxidation which then wastes vitamin E turning it into the oxidized form to protect the PUFA from a chain reaction, which then wastes vitamin C (and other things) trying to recycle the vitamin E.

If the body has the means, it can return vitamin E back to its reduced form using vitamin C or ubiquinol or something. This type of vitamin E wouldn't be included in any nutrition database, much like the oxidized form of vitamin C (dehydroascorbic acid).

So you should be able to recycle your vitamin E and vitamin C as long as your body has the means. Since we are unable to synthesize vitamin C like other animals, this makes sense. Eating massive amounts of PUFA it seems will be detrimental to this recycling process by depleting materials that are necessary to achieve it.

This page had interesting information, though mostly for livestock.
Vitamin E

"Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) has been shown to spare vitamin E in tissues by regenerating alpha-tocopherol from its oxidation products."

"It is clear that diets high in PUFA increase the vitamin E requirement. Vitamin E is depleted during its action as an antioxidant, which explains the frequent observation that the presence of dietary unsaturated fat, especially PUFA, increases the vitamin E requirement and can precipitate a vitamin E deficiency."
 

mrchibbs

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This is true. In chickens if you supplement them vitamin A then the amount of vitamin E in the egg is reduced. I think in high concentrations vitamin A can stimulate lipid peroxidation, and in chickens (and rats) it can reduce the amount of vitamin C being made and reduce the amount of vitamin C in the liver. Vitamin A can be a pro-oxidant or anti-oxidant, just like vitamin E and C, depending on the concentration (this is my current understanding). Vitamin C can be used to return oxidized vitamin E back to its reduced form. So it's possible that the massive amount of vitamin A in a chick is encouraging lipid peroxidation which then wastes vitamin E turning it into the oxidized form to protect the PUFA from a chain reaction, which then wastes vitamin C (and other things) trying to recycle the vitamin E.

Fascinating. I find this interplay between the fat soluble vitamins A, E and vitamin C so understudied. Thanks for the animal reference. Do you have more info on the relationship with vitamin C?

Especially with the interest in Vitamin A toxicity theories in the past year, I found that the more I dug, the more it became obvious that vitamin A works in a very close and symbiotic relationship with thyroid function, light and vitamin E. Iron, estrogen and PUFAs are also part of the problem. Personally I've noticed skin spots from sun exposure whereas I never got them before. But at this stage I have a definite PUFA excess, and vitamin E is an important part of the whole dynamic.
 

gaze

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Yah I'm not sure it's a paradox. Isn't it there to keep unsaturated fat stable? I tend not to think of it like other vitamins in that you need to get 'x' amount per day to meet a requirement. I think of it more like a 'drug', like aspirin or something.



This is true. In chickens if you supplement them vitamin A then the amount of vitamin E in the egg is reduced. I think in high concentrations vitamin A can stimulate lipid peroxidation, and in chickens (and rats) it can reduce the amount of vitamin C being made and reduce the amount of vitamin C in the liver. Vitamin A can be a pro-oxidant or anti-oxidant, just like vitamin E and C, depending on the concentration (this is my current understanding). Vitamin C can be used to return oxidized vitamin E back to its reduced form. So it's possible that the massive amount of vitamin A in a chick is encouraging lipid peroxidation which then wastes vitamin E turning it into the oxidized form to protect the PUFA from a chain reaction, which then wastes vitamin C (and other things) trying to recycle the vitamin E.

If the body has the means, it can return vitamin E back to its reduced form using vitamin C or ubiquinol or something. This type of vitamin E wouldn't be included in any nutrition database, much like the oxidized form of vitamin C (dehydroascorbic acid).

So you should be able to recycle your vitamin E and vitamin C as long as your body has the means. Since we are unable to synthesize vitamin C like other animals, this makes sense. Eating massive amounts of PUFA it seems will be detrimental to this recycling process by depleting materials that are necessary to achieve it.

This page had interesting information, though mostly for livestock.
Vitamin E

"Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) has been shown to spare vitamin E in tissues by regenerating alpha-tocopherol from its oxidation products."

"It is clear that diets high in PUFA increase the vitamin E requirement. Vitamin E is depleted during its action as an antioxidant, which explains the frequent observation that the presence of dietary unsaturated fat, especially PUFA, increases the vitamin E requirement and can precipitate a vitamin E deficiency."

Very interesting stuff.
 
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I bought some eggs that were more expensive (organic) and on the nutrition info on the carton, each egg was listed as 25% RDI of Vitamin E, which seemed pretty high. I don't know if that's an anomaly though.
 

olive

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It’s tough to get sufficient Vitamin E from foods without consuming a bunch of PUFA along with it. The best sources I’ve found are tomato paste, sweet potatoes and cranberry juice.
I get 20mg+ of Vitamin E every day just from those foods while keeping PUFA (and total fat) intake very low.
 

Cirion

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It’s tough to get sufficient Vitamin E from foods without consuming a bunch of PUFA along with it. The best sources I’ve found are tomato paste, sweet potatoes and cranberry juice.
I get 20mg+ of Vitamin E every day just from those foods while keeping PUFA (and total fat) intake very low.

How much of each (tomato, potatoes, juice) do you have in a sample day? And how much PUFA/fat a day? And do you feel like getting 100% RDA VE from food is superior to supplementation?
 

olive

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How much of each (tomato, potatoes, juice) do you have in a sample day? And how much PUFA/fat a day? And do you feel like getting 100% RDA VE from food is superior to supplementation?
It varies. I’d estimate most days 200g tomato, 500g tomato purée, 15g tomato paste, 250ml tomato juice.
Under 4g PUFA. Under 25g fat.
Of course getting vitamins from food is superior to supplementation. I don’t supplement with anything anymore but taurine, glycine, bromelain and pea protein in emergencies.
Here’s a standard day. Lower carb (and fructose) than usual because it was sedentary. Don’t rag on me for the low b12 - I make up for it by eating red meat and calf’s liver once-twice a week.
 

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Cirion

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Thanks. I'm hardly one to rag on for low B12 as I don't eat muscle meat anymore or any animal products except organ meat once or twice a week myself lol.

What do you get your Vitamin K from?
 
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Francisco

Francisco

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Thanks. I'm hardly one to rag on for low B12 as I don't eat muscle meat anymore or any animal products except organ meat once or twice a week myself lol.

What do you get your Vitamin K from?

I love tomatoes, but I think I might be sensitive to nightshades :(
My Italian ancestors are frowning upon me.
 

olive

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Thanks. I'm hardly one to rag on for low B12 as I don't eat muscle meat anymore or any animal products except organ meat once or twice a week myself lol.

What do you get your Vitamin K from?
Handful of baby spinach, ~40g raw. Wilt it down (ends up being a very small amount) and toss it through my fat based dinner meal.
 

LUH 3417

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It varies. I’d estimate most days 200g tomato, 500g tomato purée, 15g tomato paste, 250ml tomato juice.
Under 4g PUFA. Under 25g fat.
Of course getting vitamins from food is superior to supplementation. I don’t supplement with anything anymore but taurine, glycine, bromelain and pea protein in emergencies.
Here’s a standard day. Lower carb (and fructose) than usual because it was sedentary. Don’t rag on me for the low b12 - I make up for it by eating red meat and calf’s liver once-twice a week.
Can you post the food list from that day
 

Adrienlcrx

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I think you can check tigernuts
Low pufa low sfa moderate mufa (25g fat in total per 100g) and high E according to the packaging decription
 

olive

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Can you post the food list from that day
It’s the same as any other day. Purple sweet potato, coconut water, tomato, kiwi fruit/berries in the day. Lean fish/shellfish, coconut oil, spinach, dark chocolate at night. Glycine and coffee all day.

On days I’m more active I’ll add cranberry juice and pineapple/papaya.

On days I don’t have time to cook dinner I’ll do pea protein with almond/maca milk and dark chocolate.
 

Aries

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Handful of baby spinach, ~40g raw. Wilt it down (ends up being a very small amount) and toss it through my fat based dinner meal.
Do you think it's important to separate vitamin e and k intake within the day because they share same absorbtion mechanism? Could both be eaten with low fat meals or is fat important for absorbtion of vitamin k?
 

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