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Dietary Nitrates Can Cause Mania After Just Two Weeks Of Consumption

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    As many forum users already know dietary nitrates are an effective precursor to nitric oxide (NO). NO has been reliably linked to mania in humans, and mania is a known side effect of drugslike Viagra or nitroglycerin, but so far the official claim is that dietary nitrate intake does not cause acute mental changes and does not influence systemic health in any way.
    The study below disagrees and found that feeding both nitrate containing meat/fish (but not meat/fish without nitrates), as well as supplementing regular rat chow with nitrates, for just 2 weeks reliably produced symptoms of acute mania. The nitrate exposure from diet was quite low and comparable to a person eating 2 servings of processed meat daily. So much for diet having no effect on long term mental health, let alone inducing acute episodes of mental illness....

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-018-0105-6
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...ing-link-between-beef-jerky-and-mania/565529/

    "...For the study, recently published in the journal Molecular Psychiatry, researchers asked people being treated for psychiatric disorders at the Sheppard Pratt Health System in Baltimore whether they had ever eaten dry cured meat, undercooked meat, or undercooked fish. Those who had eaten cured meats—which include jerky and meat sticks—were three and a half times more likely to be in the group that was hospitalized for mania compared with the control group."

    "...First, they fed one group of rats normal food, and fed another group a piece of beef jerky every other day. They tried to make the rat-adjusted version roughly proportionate to the amount that a human would eat for a snack. Within two weeks, the jerky-eating rats began sleeping irregularly and behaving more excitedly. In other words, they seemed manic. “We were able to get an effect in rats that was pretty consistent with what we were seeing in people,” said Robert Yolken, a professor of neurovirology at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and one of the authors of the study. They found the same difference when they compared rats that were given jerky with rats that were given a special, nitrate-free meat. The nitrate-free-meat rats? Normal. The beef-jerky rats? Extremely hyper."
     
  2. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    I eat a lot of low-fat cheese as my main protein source. Unfortunately all cheeses in my country have sodium nitrate as an additive. It is impossible to find cheese without it. I don't feel any negative effects from it. But this post makes me question how safe it is to consume lots of cheese everyday.
     
  3. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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  4. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I was eating beef jerky and dried mangoes before my last crash with severe panic attacks. Two of my nemesis.
     
  5. jet9

    jet9 Member

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    Spinach is making me more confident but worsen my sleep and it's high in nitrates. Here is similar anecdote from reddit:

    "A while ago I was eating 500g of frozen spinach a day (I just eat the whole bag), and I went into what I would consider a manic state. Extreme confidence, extreme energy, reduced appetite, extreme irritability, etc. It felt great but I realized it could cause problems so I tried to find out how to feel normal. I realized everything started after I began eating 500g of spinach a day, so I stopped eating it. Soon after that, but not immediately, I began feeling normal again.
    About a week ago I thought that maybe it was just a fluke and the spinach wasn't the problem, so I started eating spinach again. Now I'm starting to feel like I'm going into another manic state, I have extreme energy, sleep little, etc.
    Is there something in spinach that could be causing this? It's not bad enough to be dangerous, and it actually feels amazing, but I'm wondering why I feel this way when I eat spinach."
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks. Also, as per our recent discussion with @Travis, gamma tocopherol would come in handy as would methylene blue, inosine, niacinamide, and some steroids like progesterone, DHEA, T, etc.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    That's strange. I have not seen nitrates used in cheese so far. Meat, yes. But not cheese. Which country is this, if I may ask?
     
  8. lvysaur

    lvysaur Member

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    well duh, dried preserved cured foods are cancer. Especially proteins.
     
  9. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    What about meats cured with just a lot of salt?
     
  10. Travis

    Travis Member

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    This is true: The added nitrates/nitrites adduct with heme iron, forming a red complex known as nitrosyl-heme (Fe–NO). As you know, heme changes color a bit depending on its iron ligand: oxygenated blood is a different shade than hypoxic blood. Nitrites are actually added to meat primarily for the red color they produce, demonstrated by their exclusive use in red meat. Besides the gasses commonly-known for this—i.e. O₂ and CO—nitric oxide is also active at heme's central iron. Under reducing conditions such as accompanying vitamin C intake, the heme iron-bound nitrosyl moiety leaves as the nitroxyl ion (NO⁻). This is not particularly carcinogenic, however under oxidizing conditions the heme iron-bound nitroxyl group leaves as the nitrosonium ion (NO⁺). This latter ion reacts with secondary amines to form nitrosamines, powerful carcinogens. I am under the impression that the nitrosonium ion itself can even enter the nucleus, on account of its positive charge, and adduct-with dNA. Thus: meat isn't particularly carcinogenic, its only the additives that make it so. This is similar to how ammonia in tobacco is most responsible for lung cancer, an additive that forms nitric oxide—experimentally determined at 500·ppm—upon pyrolysis and perhaps even trace levels of übercarcinogenic nitrosonium (NO⁺).

    [​IMG]
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks, this answered my question to Ivysaur. Also, let's not forget the ability of NO to bind and deactivate cytochrome C. That by itself is carcinogenic even without any mutagenic effect in the nucleus.
    In regards to tobacco - I have always suspected that clean tobacco is not as bad as it has been portrayed in the media. Case in point - the vast majority of confirmed super-centenarians were smokers and often to their last days. If smoking was so bad, then in the pool of billions of non-smokers there should have been at least one that was able to outlive the smoking oldies. But no such person is known.
    I know it does not prove it, but it does make the odds of tobacco being beneficial pretty good, don't you think?
     
  12. lvysaur

    lvysaur Member

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    I meant "cancer" in the emotional sense, but yeah probably the literal one too.

    Even if they're cured with only salt and nothing else I don't think it'd have the same effect as fresh meat; lots of people report problems from dried fruit for instance, I think I remember someone citing histamines. I suspect a lot of the fat in the meat would also be rancid.
     
  13. Travis

    Travis Member

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    There is quite a bit of epidemiological data on this, and pipe smokers only have approximately double or triple risk ratios for lung cancer. Yet cigarette smokers, on the other hand, yield risk ratios as high as twenty for post-1960s cigarettes. Consumers of 'light' cigarettes have always had identical rates with those smoking regular, a fact often lazily explained by imagining that they 'inhale harder to compensate.' However, tobacco manufacturers add more ammonia to light brands to compensate for the reduced nicotine: Light cigarettes have lower total nicotine, yet are basic (pH) enough to yield similar smokestream nicotine concentrations. The epidemiological data concerning smokers of light/regular cigarettes obviously does not support the polycyclic hydrocarbon theory, yet is harmonious with less popular nitrogen gas theory.
     
  14. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, histamine is a big issue with aged anything. Even cheeses. Also, aged meat has a lot of endotoxin as even a lot of salt will not completely stop bacteria from metabolizing some of it.
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    *Almost* completely absent.
    https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/the-nitric-oxide-no-theory-of-aging.2855/

    But yeah, if you mention it in a meeting of doctors they will probably head for the door. I know first hand, I've tried it already. It does not help that I am not a doctor but even the ones that were willing to listen were like "are you out of your mind?! NO is one of the most beneficial molecules we know of. Entire branches of medicine revolve around it. Cardiology, pulmonology, even urology". To which I said, "I know, that's the problem" and at that point even my friends (who are doctors) said "let's go have another one of whatever crazy potion you ordered at the bar".
     
  16. Travis

    Travis Member

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    I was thinking about the 'added ammonia being accountable for the ṄO—the prime carcinogen—in smokestream tobacco' theory. This actually appears to be a Travis Original, and I find it more plausible than most. Other alternative non-PAC theories I find less convincing, such as those implicating the added sugar or radioactive fertilizer used. This unfortunately would mean that American Spirit™ brand cigarettes are essentially-equivalent to Newports™ in carcinogenicity, yet there are places to buy 100% ammonia-free tobacco if you look. You can find unrelated chemical articles demonstrating ṄO is truly a NH₄⁺/NH₃ combustion product, yet articles implicating this pathway in tobacco-related carcinogenesis are unheard-of.
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think the reluctance to publish anything on the ammonia->cancer link is partially influenced by the fear of implicating NO as harmful. The doctors were right, entire branches of medicine rest on the assumption that NO is beneficial and tons of money are ties to NO-boosting drug sales.
    @Travis - do you know of any medical products containing ammonia?
     
  18. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    I think that the polyunsaturated fatty acids appear to be readily targeted by reactive nitrogen species (NOS) in this case. Among the products of arachidonic acid (AA) nitration by NO2 is nitroeicosatetraenoic acids, α,β- nitrohydroxyeicosatrienoic acids, and trans-arachidonic acids, which yet introduces another whole cascade of reactive oxygen species, and induces massive levels of lipid peroxidation, including in the brain.

    Now, studies of ferriheme cyclooxygenase, using two different assay systems, show that a variety of peroxides can trigger a rapid acceleration of COX-2 activity to produce prostaglandins. Cellular oxidants have also been shown to activate Cystolic Phosolipase A2. In vascular smooth muscle cells, hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) induces serine phosphorylation and activation of cPLA2. A variety of cytokines and mitogens such as interleukin-1 (IL-1), tumor necrosis factor (TNF), colony-stimulating factor (CSF), epidermal growth factor (EGF), c-Kit ligand, have been shown to induce activation and increase synthesis of cPLA2 in diverse cell models.

    One of the strongest inducers of cPLA2 appears to be IFN-γ and it stands to point why lithium or Aspirin work so well to stabilize moods and relieve depression in bipolar subjects, since they lower the turnover of AA in the brain. Interestingly, however, SSRI's work to increase the AA turnover, and induces the AA cascade in the brain, which then intuitively, works in the opposite direction of lithium and other mood stabilizers, thus inducing mania, and relieving depression. This highlights the outstanding ability of Aspirin to successfully treat both conditions, by regulating the cytokine gamma-interferon and lowering the AA turnover in brain lipids.
     
  19. Travis

    Travis Member

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    [?]
     
  20. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Aspirin has been shown to provide a dual-role in treating depression and stabilizing mood in bipolar disorder, a characteristic not shared with anti-depressants or conventional mood stabilizers.
     
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