Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism du

[Edward]

Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 3-0196.pdf

Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its metabolic clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.

 

[charlie]

Re: Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolis

Care to elaborate what you think of the last 2 studies you posted and what your conclusions are from them?

 

[Wilfrid]

Re: Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolis

So now what comes to mind is: If Matt Stone's right about metabolism and overfeeding?

 

[4peatssake]

Re: Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolis

So now what comes to mind is: If Matt Stone's right about metabolism and overfeeding?

Here's what Matt Stone says about "studies" such as these.

So is RRARF overfeeding? Who cares. It’s the unrealistic fiber-free fructose and corn oil-laden studies on overfeeding (a good way to develop hepatic insulin resistance like Morgan Spurlock did) that are irrelevant, not the real-life experiences and health impacts that people have who are trying the recommendations I’ve laid out in RRARF based on my own research, theories, experimentation, and personal observation.

FWIW, I know next to nothing about Matt Stone and his diet philosophy so I am not advocating his program or ideas, but I do find it interesting that he doesn't put much faith in studies on overfeeding. Clearly, there are many issues at play and narrow focused studies are just that - narrow focused studies. They do not examine the entire picture - which Ray Peat - thankfully, and wisely - does.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of scientists involved in these studies are traditionally trained in reductionist science - which is why I choose to both study the work of and adopt the nutritional recommendations of Ray Peat. Most of science is "dead" wrong. Just look at all the dead bodies.

It would be most helpful if people would take the extra time to give some explanation when posting studies and making comments, to help others understand that person's thoughts and reason for posting it. We are not scientists here - mostly, we are a group of people trying to recover ill health and achieve high metabolic functioning using the nutritional wisdom of Ray Peat.

Further explanation about or at least a link to other people's ideas that are mentioned in a post - like Matt Stone's views on metabolism and overfeeding - would also be helpful.

I've not thoroughly reviewed this study but it appears we have little idea what these people were "over fed" with. Look at the diet they started with!

In all studies, weight maintenance was first established for 3 wk by the use of frozen meals (SwansonFoods, Campbell Soup Co., Camden, N. J.) drawn from single production lots. The dietary composition was provided by the manufacturer, and identical meals were taken during the initial and experimental periods.

All of this information is very confusing - particularly for new people trying to get an understanding on what is actually true about nutrition and health and are trying to self heal themselves.

 

[jaguar43]

Re: Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolis

Over eating and normal eating are very individual. They may have been under eating which would raise t3.

 

[Wilfrid]

Re: Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolis

So now what comes to mind is: If Matt Stone's right about metabolism and overfeeding?

Here's what Matt Stone says about "studies" such as these.

So is RRARF overfeeding? Who cares. It’s the unrealistic fiber-free fructose and corn oil-laden studies on overfeeding (a good way to develop hepatic insulin resistance like Morgan Spurlock did) that are irrelevant, not the real-life experiences and health impacts that people have who are trying the recommendations I’ve laid out in RRARF based on my own research, theories, experimentation, and personal observation.

FWIW, I know next to nothing about Matt Stone and his diet philosophy so I am not advocating his program or ideas, but I do find it interesting that he doesn't put much faith in studies on overfeeding. Clearly, there are many issues at play and narrow focused studies are just that - narrow focused studies. They do not examine the entire picture - which Ray Peat - thankfully, and wisely - does.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of scientists involved in these studies are traditionally trained in reductionist science - which is why I choose to both study the work of and adopt the nutritional recommendations of Ray Peat. Most of science is "dead" wrong. Just look at all the dead bodies.

It would be most helpful if people would take the extra time to give some explanation when posting studies and making comments, to help others understand that person's thoughts and reason for posting it. We are not scientists here - mostly, we are a group of people trying to recover ill health and achieve high metabolic functioning using the nutritional wisdom of Ray Peat.

Further explanation about or at least a link to other people's ideas that are mentioned in a post - like Matt Stone's views on metabolism and overfeeding - would also be helpful.

I've not thoroughly reviewed this study but it appears we have little idea what these people were "over fed" with. Look at the diet they started with!

In all studies, weight maintenance was first established for 3 wk by the use of frozen meals (SwansonFoods, Campbell Soup Co., Camden, N. J.) drawn from single production lots. The dietary composition was provided by the manufacturer, and identical meals were taken during the initial and experimental periods.

All of this information is very confusing - particularly for new people trying to get an understanding on what is actually true about nutrition and health and are trying to self heal themselves.

After my surgery, my weight was 56 kilos for nearly 2 meters. Almost my entire colon was removed and I had two major fistulas.
Back home, I began my research to, at least, regain, not my health, but just some strenght and weight.That was the time when I started to "overfeeding" on sprite, ice cream, risotto, pizza, bread, pie, pasta, Mc Donalds etc.. all the stuff that were known to be very detrimental to health...but, the results? My weight went from 56 kilos to 99 kilos in less than 1 year and half, the pain that I got in my bones vanished, my two fistulas closed, no relapse of my crohn's and despite the very small remaining part of colon that I got no diarrhea at all...So now what I'm doing? I continued to eat beyond appetite, I take only small amount of cynoplus and put vitamins on my skin.
I eat three times a day and nothing in between just salted carbonated water (Saint Yorre) and try to keep a "non-foamy" yellow pee all the day long.
Basically, I continue to follow some of Matt's recommendation plus Ray's knowledge on protective substances ( protein, sugar, salt and thyroid).
So this is my testimonial....

 

[4peatssake]

Re: Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolis

After my surgery, my weight was 56 kilos for nearly 2 meters. Almost my entire colon was removed and I had two major fistulas.
Back home, I began my research to, at least, regain, not my health, but just some strenght and weight.That was the time when I started to "overfeeding" on sprite, ice cream, risotto, pizza, bread, pie, pasta, Mc Donalds etc.. all the stuff that were known to be very detrimental to health...but, the results? My weight went from 56 kilos to 99 kilos in less than 1 year and half, the pain that I got in my bones vanished, my two fistulas closed, no relapse of my crohn's and despite the very small remaining part of colon that I got no diarrhea at all...So now what I'm doing? I continued to eat beyond appetite, I take only small amount of cynoplus and put vitamins on my skin.
I eat three times a day and nothing in between just salted carbonated water (Saint Yorre) and try to keep a "non-foamy" yellow pee all the day long.
Basically, I continue to follow some of Matt's recommendation plus Ray's knowledge on protective substances ( protein, sugar, salt and thyroid).
So this is my testimonial....

Thank You Wilfred for sharing your remarkable story of self healing! I am thrilled for you.
This is truly inspirational and I know for me personally is incredibly empowering, encouraging and helpful.

Reading about your experience as well as cfhunter's testimony and experience have provided tremendous hope for many of us. You are living, breathing human examples of what is possible.

When we connect in such a way, we create community and can share our triumphs as well as our difficulties.
What an extraordinary adventure you have had! Thank you again, for sharing your story with us.

I am so very glad for you that you took your health into your own hands!

Just Wow!

 

[Edward]

Re: Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolis

Care to elaborate what you think of the last 2 studies you posted and what your conclusions are from them?

I just thought it was interesting that "liquid corn oil" (as opposed to solid corn oil?) didn't put the human subjects into a coma (j/k). In hibernation studies if an animal does not consume enough PUFA before the winter the animal will wake up, but if it is too much the animal might not wake up.

As a side note though metabolic damage does not usually occur within the duration of any of these groups. Takes longer. These studies ultimately are not useful for basing a life long diet after. However they are useful in illustrating the short term effects of lackluster nutrition and the resilience of the human body. It is also interesting to note that although PUFA and carbohydrate had similar increases in thyroid hormone production for the overfeeding periods, that the levels were slightly higher in the CHO groups, it may be useful to remember that thyroid hormones are catabolic and that in studies where animals are supplemented with exogenous thyroid, muscle and glycogen wasting are typical.

What is even more interesting is that this is the opposite effect in hyperthyroid studies. In those studies naturally hyperthyroid animals burn more fatty acids whereas when animals are given exogenous thyroid they burn through muscle and glycogen (probably because the exogenous thyroid hormone is elevating the stress hormones).

There are other implications but no time for depth.