Dietary Glycine Supplementation Mimics Lifespan Extension By Dietary Methionine Restriction

haidut

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In support of Ray's statements that the benefits of caloric restriction may be due to the absence of specific toxic substances, this study shows that extra dietary glycine mimics lifespan extension by methionine restriction:

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeti ... acts/528.2

The amount of glycine used was quite large - 8% and 12% correspond to about 120g and 180g for a human per day and I am not sure how one can ingest such levels. But at least the study shows that specific amino acids are good to consume in moderation (tryptophan, methionine, arginine, cysteine) and others can probably benefits us in larger amounts (glycine, taurine, beta alanine, maybe BCAA, maybe theanine, etc).
 

treelady

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My experience with glycine is
- It is very calming
- I take a 500mg tablet to go to sleep at night
- BUT I can't take more than a couple 500mg tablets/day or I get diarrhea. :(
 
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haidut said:
The amount of glycine used was quite large - 8% and 12% correspond to about 120g and 180g for a human per day and I am not sure how one can ingest such levels.
I think the key for me is to divide the doses and take them frequently. In theory, this might be something like 10 grams every ninety minutes, but I always take it in the natural form of casein and gelatin.

Do you happen to remember the studies you posted about muscles shrinking after about 90 minutes of being deprived of protein? Suggesting that we may need a daily total of 3g/kg of bodyweight, for building muscle? 8-12 meals of .25-.4g protein each?

I can't seem to find those studies when I search your posts.
 
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treelady said:
My experience with glycine is
- It is very calming
- I take a 500mg tablet to go to sleep at night
- BUT I can't take more than a couple 500mg tablets/day or I get diarrhea. :(
I think Peat is right and the pure amino acids cause much more digestive trouble than the natural forms of casein and gelatin. Gelatin is about 29% glycine. I just need to be sure the gelatin is very well dissolved and I can take a lot of it. But like you, treelady, I can't tolerate much pure glycine at all.

Peat's pointed out to me that even the amino acid theanine can be taken more safely as black tea.
 

jyb

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visionofstrength said:
I think Peat is right and the pure amino acids cause much more digestive trouble than the natural forms of casein and gelatin. Gelatin is about 29% glycine. I just need to be sure the gelatin is very well dissolved and I can take a lot of it. But like you, treelady, I can't tolerate much pure glycine at all.

Peat's pointed out to me that even the amino acid theanine can be taken more safely as black tea.

I sometimes wonder of the purity of gelatin supplement (I have Great Lakes, which I assume is one of the better ones). On Peatarian, there are threads on this topic and concerns, I guess as with any industrial product, especially one where some flesh is heated for days in various containers. Either I do gelatin from meat broth only, but I'd only do that once weekly, or I get gelatin any day from powder but possibly not pure...have to guess what's the right balance.

For black tea...seems like there is enough for an effect, but I'm not sure how that compares to the quantities you get from supplementing.

I'd be interested to know when buying tea if there's a way to know the origin, in particular if its high in fluoride or heavy metals. It seems like plants grown commercially suffer from this, for example the heavy metals in tobacco comes from soil pollution in some countries.
 

treelady

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visionofstrength I think you are right about whole foods being better than plain amino acids, but Great Lakes Gelatin is even worse for me. I can't tolerate any w/o diarrhea and I make sure it is well dissolved. I can have homemade soups though.
 
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jyb said:
I sometimes wonder of the purity of gelatin supplement (I have Great Lakes, which I assume is one of the better ones). On Peatarian, there are threads on this topic and concerns, I guess as with any industrial product, especially one where some flesh is heated for days in various containers.
I think Peat's view on this is to gauge your own reaction to it, since your reaction may be different from mine. An adverse reaction might be headache, nausea, diarrhea or constipation. In my case, I can use any of the gelatins I've tried, but not the pure amino acids.

jyb said:
For black tea...seems like there is enough for an effect, but I'm not sure how that compares to the quantities you get from supplementing.
There's about 20 mg theanine in one cup of regular strength black tea. But I find I can make the tea at 2x strength. I have even gotten instant black tea and made it very strong!

jyb said:
I'd be interested to know when buying tea if there's a way to know the origin, in particular if its high in fluoride or heavy metals. It seems like plants grown commercially suffer from this, for example the heavy metals in tobacco comes from soil pollution in some countries.
Yes, the biggest problem for me is radiation from Fukushima and other NPPs on the plants or trees. I try not to eat any leaves or other surfaces that could collect particles from the air or rain. I try to get my tea and coffee from South America where I think radiation levels are lower.

It's a very mad world we live in.

But on a more upbeat note, Peat thinks methylene blue is good at quenching radiation.
 
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treelady said:
visionofstrength I think you are right about whole foods being better than plain amino acids, but Great Lakes Gelatin is even worse for me. I can't tolerate any w/o diarrhea and I make sure it is well dissolved. I can have homemade soups though.
Is it the Great Lakes green canister (hydrolyzed collagen) or the orange one (gelatin)? I only use the gelatin (orange canister). If the gelatin bothers you, you may want to dilute it more, until hopefully you find a concentration where it doesn't bother you.
 

jyb

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visionofstrength said:
jyb said:
I'd be interested to know when buying tea if there's a way to know the origin, in particular if its high in fluoride or heavy metals. It seems like plants grown commercially suffer from this, for example the heavy metals in tobacco comes from soil pollution in some countries.
Yes, the biggest problem for me is radiation from Fukushima and other NPPs on the plants or trees. I try not to eat any leaves or other surfaces that could collect particles from the air or rain. I try to get my tea and coffee from South America where I think radiation levels are lower.

It's a very mad world we live in.

But on a more upbeat note, Peat thinks methylene blue is good at quenching radiation.

Here's an overview of possible tea contaminants. I conclude that one should avoid China/India or any industrial area, use hand-picked and leaves not too old. Tea accumulates things like fluoride over time, and these contaminants are due to pollution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tea

What do you think of Mate (South America)? I guess that produced on an industrial scale given the popularity of such tea, but I don't know about the purity.
 

treelady

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visionofstrength said:
treelady said:
visionofstrength I think you are right about whole foods being better than plain amino acids, but Great Lakes Gelatin is even worse for me. I can't tolerate any w/o diarrhea and I make sure it is well dissolved. I can have homemade soups though.
Is it the Great Lakes green canister (hydrolyzed collagen) or the orange one (gelatin)? I only use the gelatin (orange canister). If the gelatin bothers you, you may want to dilute it more, until hopefully you find a concentration where it doesn't bother you.

Thank you for the suggestion but I have read every post on Great Lakes Gelatin and tried both cans and it is poison for me. I have found that many Peaty things just don't work for me. But I am not frustrated, I just work with what I can use.
 
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treelady said:
visionofstrength said:
treelady said:
visionofstrength I think you are right about whole foods being better than plain amino acids, but Great Lakes Gelatin is even worse for me. I can't tolerate any w/o diarrhea and I make sure it is well dissolved. I can have homemade soups though.
Is it the Great Lakes green canister (hydrolyzed collagen) or the orange one (gelatin)? I only use the gelatin (orange canister). If the gelatin bothers you, you may want to dilute it more, until hopefully you find a concentration where it doesn't bother you.

Thank you for the suggestion but I have read every post on Great Lakes Gelatin and tried both cans and it is poison for me. I have found that many Peaty things just don't work for me. But I am not frustrated, I just work with what I can use.
Has old-fashioned Jello always bothered you, too? Does your home mode broth also have some "gelatin" in it if you've included cartilage when simmering it?

I wonder if I've been wrong in thinking about what gelatin is, and that it can differ greatly in how well dissolved it is, and how diluted (or in purity depending on the manufacturing).
 

treelady

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visionofstrength said:
Has old-fashioned Jello always bothered you, too? Does your home mode broth also have some "gelatin" in it if you've included cartilage when simmering it?

I wonder if I've been wrong in thinking about what gelatin is, and that it can differ greatly in how well dissolved it is, and how diluted (or in purity depending on the manufacturing).

I muscle test negative to the Knox gelatin as well. I never liked Jello much so it has probably been over 30 years since I have even had some and back then nothing bothered me. When I do make soup, I use bones and cartilage so the broth has gelatin from them in it. Cooking from scratch is much healthier than using convenience foods and powders anyway. Every now and then when I pass by the pantry I muscle test the Great Lakes. If I ever get a positive I may try to introduce it again. It's a handy way to up your protein, but I am thinking it's not how many grams of protein you get but the quality that counts.
 

aguilaroja

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haidut said:
...this study shows that extra dietary glycine mimics lifespan extension by methionine restriction:

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeti ... acts/528.2

....

And glycine appears protective of a particular decline in a cancer circumstance:

Glycine administration attenuates skeletal muscle wasting in a mouse model of cancer cachexia.
Ham DJ1, Murphy KT1, Chee A1, Lynch GS1, Koopman R2. Clin Nutr. 2014 Jun;33(3):448-58. doi: 10.1016/j.clnu.2013.06.013. Epub 2013 Jun 26.

"Glycine protects skeletal muscle from cancer-induced wasting and loss of function, reduces the oxidative and inflammatory burden, and reduces the expression of genes associated with muscle protein breakdown in cancer cachexia. Importantly, these effects were glycine specific."
 

jyb

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haidut said:
In support of Ray's statements that the benefits of caloric restriction may be due to the absence of specific toxic substances, this study shows that extra dietary glycine mimics lifespan extension by methionine restriction:

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeti ... acts/528.2

The amount of glycine used was quite large - 8% and 12% correspond to about 120g and 180g for a human per day and I am not sure how one can ingest such levels. But at least the study shows that specific amino acids are good to consume in moderation (tryptophan, methionine, arginine, cysteine) and others can probably benefits us in larger amounts (glycine, taurine, beta alanine, maybe BCAA, maybe theanine, etc).

I wonder about how often glycine, gelatin etc needs to be supplemented for one to get the benefits, whether those in that study or those described in Ray's article. I feel like this probably needs to be daily at least. So that would make supplementation necessary, unless one does a bone stew very often.
 

haidut

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visionofstrength said:
haidut said:
The amount of glycine used was quite large - 8% and 12% correspond to about 120g and 180g for a human per day and I am not sure how one can ingest such levels.
I think the key for me is to divide the doses and take them frequently. In theory, this might be something like 10 grams every ninety minutes, but I always take it in the natural form of casein and gelatin.

Do you happen to remember the studies you posted about muscles shrinking after about 90 minutes of being deprived of protein? Suggesting that we may need a daily total of 3g/kg of bodyweight, for building muscle? 8-12 meals of .25-.4g protein each?

I can't seem to find those studies when I search your posts.

Yeah, I vaguely remember those studies and unfortunately I don't keep a link to them. Maybe you can use Google and search the forum for "haidut protein". Maybe something will come up since Google is more contextual than the forum search function.
The protein dose 3g/kg has been used in elderly people and it has very good effects similar to weight lifting. However, in come people that can generate quite a bit of ammonia so not sure I'd use that on a regular basis. Unless you are splitting it into a number of smaller doses taken every 60-90 minutes. As long as each dose does not exceed 30g I think that should be safe.
 

SAFarmer

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I've always wanted to eat more gelatin, but apart from what you can buy in grocery stores here which is a mess to work with and have to be dissolved in warm water, no one in industry could name something else similar to Great Lakes hydrolised gelatin. Great Lakes unfortunately is not available in South Africa, so I did some research recently and found that the wine industry use similar products for the fining of wines.

I have bought a 1kg pack of Gecoll from a company Laffort recently for about $10. It's hydrolised gelatin and you can dissolve it about 1:2 in cold water. I have been trying it out for about a month now and no adverse effects or feelings yet. In fact I seem to have more stamina and energy. I premix and store in fridge and add to my milk coffee about 5-6 times a day. I also mix it in other sugary drinks for my sports.

I am just so glad I finally have found an inexpensive and easy to use gelatin product. The upside is the company seems to make many other interesting products too, like Vegecoll, a pure potato protein extract ! Have not tried it out yet, but it sure seems Peatish. They also have things like Casein Plus ( Potassium Caseinate) adn other interesting mineral products.
 

Kartoffel

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Another study showing the life-extending effect of glycine. The authors of this study explain this effect with glycine's ability to excrete excess methione. Ray has talked about the life-extending effect of restricting methionine, and it seems that just adding enough glycine to the diet has the same effect.

FASEB Journal, Volume 25, Issue 1, 2011.
Dietary glycine supplementation mimics lifespan extension by dietary methionine restriction in Fisher 344 rats

Joel Brind, Virginia Malloy, Ines Augie, Nicholas Caliendo, Joseph H Vogelman, Jay A. Zimmerman, and Norman Orentreich

Dietary methionine (Met) restriction (MR) extends lifespan in rodents by 30–40% and inhibits growth. Since glycine is the vehicle for hepatic clearance of excess Met via glycine N-methyltransferase (GNMT), we hypothesized that dietary glycine supplementation (GS) might produce biochemical and endocrine changes similar to MR and also extend lifespan. Seven-week-old male Fisher 344 rats were fed diets containing 0.43% Met/2.3% glycine (control fed; CF) or 0.43% Met/4%, 8% or 12% glycine until natural death. In 8% or 12% GS rats, median lifespan increased from 88 weeks (w) to 113 w, and maximum lifespan increased from 91 w to 119 w v CF. Body growth reduction was less dramatic, and not even significant in the 8% GS group. Dose-dependent reductions in several serum markers were also observed. Long-term (50 w) 12% GS resulted in reductions in mean (±SD) fasting glucose (158 ± 13 v 179 ± 46 mg/dL), insulin (0.7 ± 0.4 v 0.8 ± 0.3 ng/mL), IGF-1 (1082 ± 128 v 1407 ± 142 ng/mL) and triglyceride (113 ± 31 v 221 ± 56 mg/dL) levels compared to CF. Adiponectin, which increases with MR, did not change in GS after 12 w on diet. We propose that more efficient Met clearance via GNMT with GS could be reducing chronic Met toxicity due to rogue methylations from chronic excess methylation capacity or oxidative stress from generation of toxic by-products such as formaldehyde. This project received no outside funding.
 

Kunder

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Would an extention of 91 years to 119 years be about the right conversion for humans? I take about 30 grams of glycine daily, aiming for 130 years as bare minimum.
 

jyb

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Would an extention of 91 years to 119 years be about the right conversion for humans? I take about 30 grams of glycine daily, aiming for 130 years as bare minimum.

I avoid that since seeing the high concentrations of heavy metals on the certificate of analysis of the "pure" amino acid powders I see... Consumed in the amounts you suggest, that would be an extreme intake of lead for example.
 
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