Dietary Fat Intake Below 15% Depletes PUFA

haidut

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A human study. Obviously, a lower fat intake will increase PUFA depletion.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1345066/

"...No patient was EFA deficient before the onset of TPN. EFA deficiency was prevented when at least 3.2% of total calories were given as intravenous fat or at least 15% as oral fat. Lesser amounts of fat decreased the rate of EFA deficiency development but did not prevent it from occurring. The 7.7 g/day of linoleic acid provided in 1000 ml per week of 10% soybean oil emulsion provides adequate fat to prevent EFA deficiency."
 

johns74

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So if you consume more than 7.7 grams, say 8 grams, you won't reach the goal of becoming PUFA deficient.
 

haidut

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Such_Saturation said:
Of what fat?

The study says if you consume more than 7.7g of linoleic acid per day you won't become PUFA deficient even on a low fat diet (i.e. <15% of calories as fat).
 

johns74

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Assuming a 2000 calorie diet and that 1 gram of linoleic acid provides 9 calories, they are saying that if 3.5% of your calories are linoleic acid you won't become deficient, a higher number than 0,5% in the other study recently posted.
 
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15% of 2500 calories is provided by 42 grams of fat. So if your average diet is 30% fat, that's 375 calories you need to go get somewhere else. It's about 3.5 ounces of sugar.
 

paymanz

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im so interest to know formula of the TPN solution they used at the time.to know if they used all the essential nutrient or not, all vitamins , minerals ...
 

schultz

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Interesting. In the William Brown experiment, he received less than 2 grams of fat per day for 6 months and didn't develop any sign of deficiency. Maybe it was the gallon of milk he had... I wish they would study this again. I would love to see if they can do zero fat and prevent the "deficiency" completely, just for fun.
 

johns74

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William Brown had a reduced serum iodine number, which indicates more saturated fats, but I don't know how far that number was from what you get in a 'deficiency'.
 

schultz

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I sort of meant he had no visible signs like eczema.

I don't know how to interpret the iodine value. I think now-a-days they test levels of eicosatrienoic acid to test for deficiency. Would love to have that number in the case of this gentleman and compare it to the TPN subjects. Anyone want to go on the William Brown diet for 6 months and get blood work done as well? :lol:

On a side note: I was just reading over the paper and noticed this...

"No definite morphological change occurred in the blood, other than a tendency to leucopenia."

This to me says that he is in a lesser state of inflammation since leucocytes tend to rise during infection and an inflammatory state, right? Just thought it was interesting... :?
 

Rrr

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Why is the amount given in percentages? 15% would be 33g in a 2000kcal diet and 50g in a 3000kcal diet? Whether I'm super active (higher calorie diet) or a coach potato (lower calorie diet), my requirements for dietary fat doesn't really change, right? So why isn't the required amount of fat given in grams per pound/kg?

Or did I miss the point and what I said above isn't related to the topic at all?

Edit: How come low-fatters like the people on the 80/10/10 diet can get away with a fat intake lower than 15%? Some of them even go as low as 5%?
 

tara

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Rrr said:
Why is the amount given in percentages? 15% would be 33g in a 2000kcal diet and 50g in a 3000kcal diet? Whether I'm super active (higher calorie diet) or a coach potato (lower calorie diet), my requirements for dietary fat doesn't really change, right? So why isn't the required amount of fat given in grams per pound/kg?
If there were a real requirement, I don't see why it woluldn't vary in proportion to overall calorie requirements.

But I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a general fat requirement. One does need the fat soluble vitamins, some fat can help with digestion of other food/nutrients, some saturated fat can help dilute and displace PUFAs, and some people say they feel/function better if they eat various amounts of fat. But it does not seem to be established that any dietary fat is actually necessary for everyone.
It can be hard to eat enough calories without fat.
 

narouz

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These questions about fat, in a good or optimal Peat diet, are interesting.
I haven't focused in on this area, really.
So absorbed by starch, you know. :lol:

Peat said in an interview,
when asked how much (saturated) fat should be eaten,
"It should probably be about equal amounts protein, carbohydrates, and fats.
But the answer is really not known."
(That is an approximate quote, from memory.)

It may have been in the same interview that he kinduv walked that back a little bit
by saying that he, personally,
had been trying to eat a little less fat
and to replace that by eating a little more carbs (sugars).
I believe he explained this by saying that fat is often going to have some PUFA,
and he was trying to reduce his intake of that even more.
(I can't swear this is 100% accurate--to the best of my memory.)
That interview was not too old as I recall...probably within the last 5 years.

Peat says saturated fat is protective in a number of situations:
-when eating starches and fibers (both, I think?)
-protects the liver when alcohol is consumed
There are others, but I don't have the time to flesh it out properly now.
I believe he says it may help retard or protect against the oxidation of PUFA...?

The area of fat within a Peat diet needs a good going over.
A collection of his general statements about fats would be great.
Perhaps there have already been threads on this;
I haven't searched.
 

burtlancast

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Ray has about 8 or 9 articles on his websites dedicated to fats and oils.

And we have transcribed as well at least 3 interviews where he develops these ideas.
 

uuy8778yyi

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What if the only fats I ate were coconut oil and butter ?

would that deplete PUFA ?

or just going low fat in general ?
 

Luann

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or just going low fat in general ?
So, kind of. The way I understand it, fat-free is the easiest way to detox fast, but you have like a smoother detox with less kick-back from activated efa's if you keep the saturated fats coming.
 

Giraffe

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This is nothing to do with PUFA depletion; this is all about how biochemical EFA-deficiency is defined.

The study says if you consume more than 7.7g of linoleic acid per day you won't become PUFA deficient even on a low fat diet (i.e. <15% of calories as fat).

Biochemical EFA deficiency is defined in that study as a "ratio of 5, 8, 11-eicosatrienoic acid to arachidonic acid (triene:tetraene) of 0.4 or greater". The men who were given 7.7 g of linoleic acid had the lowest triene:tetraene ratios. Later they write, "The ten patients who were administered at least 15% of calories as fat by mouth, and did not become EFA-deficient, received 1.1% of calories as linoleic acid."

Let's not forget that these men were on total parental nutrition.
The mechanism whereby patients on TPN became EFA-deficient is believed to be related to the continuous glucose infusion. The increased insulin during glucose-amino acid infusion decreases the hormonesensitive lipase activity in adipose tissue, preventing breakdown of triglycerides into free fatty acids. Thus, the patient receives neither linoleic acid nor has access to endogenous stores of essential fatty acids, believed to be 8-10% of normal adult adipose tissue.
Fasting or intermittent feeding normalize the levels.

[...] the group of patients who, not on TPN, were able to remain normal with as little as 8.6% of calories as oral fat.
 

Luann

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"The mechanism whereby patients on TPN became EFA-deficient is believed to be related to the continuous glucose infusion. The increased insulin during glucose-amino acid infusion decreases the hormonesensitive lipase activity in adipose tissue, preventing breakdown of triglycerides into free fatty acids. Thus, the patient receives neither linoleic acid nor has access to endogenous stores of essential fatty acids, believed to be 8-10% of normal adult adipose tissue."

I was wondering exactly how continuous the glucose and protein would have to be, to keep fats in the triglycerides. Can I eat every three or four hours and during the night, and it would be the same thing?
 
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