Dietary Fat Cause Joint Pain

[berk]

I'm little experimenting last weeks with my diet and notice that when i eat some dietary fat, A COUPLE HOURS LATER my joints and old injury's start to hurt.
I'm now experimenting with coconut oil and tallow and besides that the both are low puffa, they are high omega 6.
But now i am thinking about it, long time ago when i was eating nuts, fish, olive oil etc, (which are lower omega 6 and higher omega 3) i had a lot of painfully joints to but I never thought that fats causing it.
So I THINK all fats causing it and at this moment coconut oil and tallow definitely does.

So it looks like low fat is definitely the cure for me but my question is of course why all de fats causing this?
People here with the same experience?

 

[somuch4food]

I'm currently investigating salicylates as a cause for my joint pain. I had more trouble than before this winter and first thought it was calcification or something, but after stumbling upon salicylates, everything seems to fall into places. And guess what? most sources of plant fat are high in salicylates: olive oil, coconut oil, avocados and nuts. I'd try using only animal fat and see how you fare.

I can't provide you with science at the moment since I only started delving into it.

 

[berk]

I'm currently investigating salicylates as a cause for my joint pain. I had more trouble than before this winter and first thought it was calcification or something, but after stumbling upon salicylates, everything seems to fall into places. And guess what? most sources of plant fat are high in salicylates: olive oil, coconut oil, avocados and nuts. I'd try using only animal fat and see how you fare.

I can't provide you with science at the moment since I only started delving into it.

interesting!
is joint pain your only symptom from salicylates?
i read on google that lot of people have skin problems from it i dont have that from fats or salicylates.
Only from sulfites.

Do you have nasty reactions of broccoli, spinach, fruit juices, and ginger?
They are all high salicylates and for me there are not giving any problems.

 

[somuch4food]

is joint pain your only symptom from salicylates?
i read on google that lot of people have skin problems from it i dont have that from fats or salicylates.

No, sleep issues and dry skin seem to also be linked to this. Depression/SAD might also be caused by this. I had linked it to lutein/carotenoids, but it could have been salicylates, there is a lot of crossover between these in food sources.

Do you have nasty reactions of broccoli, spinach, fruit juices, and ginger?
They are all high salicylates and for me there are not giving any problems.

The salicylates lists are a bit wacky. They do not take into account portion size. For example, according to this source, ginger has 4.5mg/100g. I do know many people that eat that much, so it can be considered low/medium.

It's early to link symptoms to foods since I have just begun taking notice of salicylates content and I am in the process of reducing my intake, but too much broccoli is something I know affects me, namely sleep and blue light sensitivity.

I was in a berry frenzy (all high in salicylates) last month and my hands were really dry, to the point of having random cuts. I had also some mouth ulcers that I thought were from carrageenan in cream, but now I will have to test that again, the worst joint pain I ever had and serious brain fog/depression.

Just before that, I felt way better. That coincided with a higher intake of glycine (pork rinds and gelatin), sulfate (Célestins mineral water) which are supposed to help process salicylic acid in the liver. I was also using tallow for cooking instead of coconut oil/olive oil. I have resumed tallow, pork rinds, gelatin and Célestins as of yesterday. I'm waiting to see the results.

 

[methylenewhite]

No, sleep issues and dry skin seem to also be linked to this. Depression/SAD might also be caused by this. I had linked it to lutein/carotenoids, but it could have been salicylates, there is a lot of crossover between these in food sources.



The salicylates lists are a bit wacky. They do not take into account portion size. For example, according to this source, ginger has 4.5mg/100g. I do know many people that eat that much, so it can be considered low/medium.

It's early to link symptoms to foods since I have just begun taking notice of salicylates content and I am in the process of reducing my intake, but too much broccoli is something I know affects me, namely sleep and blue light sensitivity.

I was in a berry frenzy (all high in salicylates) last month and my hands were really dry, to the point of having random cuts. I had also some mouth ulcers that I thought were from carrageenan in cream, but now I will have to test that again, the worst joint pain I ever had and serious brain fog/depression.

Just before that, I felt way better. That coincided with a higher intake of glycine (pork rinds and gelatin), sulfate (Célestins mineral water) which are supposed to help process salicylic acid in the liver. I was also using tallow for cooking instead of coconut oil/olive oil. I have resumed tallow, pork rinds, gelatin and Célestins as of yesterday. I'm waiting to see the results.

Does aspirin cause the same effect?

 

[somuch4food]

Does aspirin cause the same effect?

I can't answer I never took an Aspirin in my life and I would be scared taking it now since the dose is so much higher than from food sources.

 

[berk]

aspirin never helps me for joint pain.
so if its really salicylates, than dont bother taking it.

i will soon try tallow again when i am pain free.
See if the pain comes back.

 

[methylenewhite]

I can't answer I never took an Aspirin in my life and I would be scared taking it now since the dose is so much higher than from food sources.

If you take aspirin and nothing happens it excludes salicylate as a possible causation. IMO.

 

[berk]

If you take aspirin and nothing happens it excludes salicylate as a possible causation. IMO.

why you think that.

 

[methylenewhite]

Because salicylates are esters of salicylic acid. Aspirin is prodrug to salicylic acid. Even salicin from white willow ends up as salicylic acid if you consume it. Salicylates from fruits or other food sources end up as salicylic acid too.

Urinary excretion of SA was similar in vegetarians and patients consuming 75 or 150 mg of aspirin/day, although SU excretion was substantially greater in the aspirin groups. Blacklock CJ, Lawrence JR, Malcolm EA, et al.
Salicylic acid in the serum of subjects not taking aspirin. Comparison of salicylic acid concentrations in the serum of vegetarians, non-vegetarian... - PubMed - NCBI

So it a simple logical experiment to prove or disprove existence of so-called "salicylates intolerance" which is from many points of view is nothing but a another one internet marketing cult. Some doctor tend to specialize in some imaginary psychosomatic conditions to earn non imaginary profits. There literally millions of people convinced that they have some kind of disorder which does exist in their beliefs systems only.

"The internet creates a sort of 'closed ideology echo chamber' wherein people who share unusual beliefs reinforce each other's thinking."
Dr.Sheridan

@berk

 

[somuch4food]

So it a simple logical experiment to prove or disprove existence of so-called "salicylates intolerance" which is from many points of view is nothing but a another one internet marketing cult. Some doctor tend to specialize in some imaginary psychosomatic conditions to earn non imaginary profits. There literally millions of people convinced that they have some kind of disorder which does exist in their beliefs systems only.

I won't be doing your little experience because I've always been wary of pills. I don't like the idea of swallowing a pill everyday. I did supplement vitamins for a while since I hadn't found any other solution to enhance my energy. I think it's more important to find a balance with foods rather than throw more stuff into an already taxed body.

From my early understanding, salicylates intolerance like histamine intolerance are caused by a sluggish/overtaxed liver that cannot process these organic compounds fast enough and they end up circulating in the body in larger quantities than tolerated.

My current plan is to lower my intake to a level that make me comfortable and find ways to support my liver to increase tolerance. What I have found at the moment is: sulfur rich foods, mineral water rich in sulfate, epsom salt and baking soda baths, gut imbalances from sulfur degrading bacteria and glycine.

 

[berk]

@somuch4food
Do you now follow a high sulfur diet and taking msm maybe?
so yes, do you notice any improvement?

 

[somuch4food]

@somuch4food
Do you now follow a high sulfur diet and taking msm maybe?
so yes, do you notice any improvement?

I'm going higher sulfur from diet only: cruciferous vegetables, meat/proteins, Célestins mineral water (138mg of sulfate/1L) and Epsom salt baths. I also try to incorporate more glycine (pork rinds and gelatin). I can't tell if I am making real progress yet, I'm in the process of applying these principles.

No MSM as I'm currently breastfeeding, so I can't play too much with supplements.

I'm hopeful though. Curiously enough, I had had many hints that pointed towards this. I had noticed that onions, meat and Epsom salts bath helped me. I was also doing better during the summer (the sun helps synthesize sulfate in the skin).

 

[Titanium]

Many years ago I tried to get relief of arthritis pain in my joints by taking a mix of omega-3/6 & 9 oil. The product I used (amanprana okinawa omega 3-6-9 ) was supposed to be beneficial for joints. It did not work, quite the opposite. A tablespoon of this mix really hurt my joints, especially my knees. Didn't notice any pain in my scars however. I also haven't noticed pain in my joints after the use of olive oil, butter or coconut oil. At least not in the same extend as PUFA. Fish-oil supplements (EPA/DHA) are equally bad.

 

[Missenger]

Processed saturated candle wax oils like Coconut Oil and Cocoa can give you painful
reactions from experience. In the sense of ingesting poison like vegetable oils they're pretty healthy (and the decoupling mitochondrial action of them is a plus) but if you react to them from ingesting them it may as well be a different kind of poison to your immune system. I don't think processed oils are fit for human consumption beyond animal fats, they don't digest (which is why saturated fat is healthy). I'd just stay from fat unless there's nutritional value to it, like with needing a certain amount of fat to digest meat protein or cholesterol from non-overcooked yolks since cooking pufas definitely makes them more toxic. Saturated plant/fruit oils can definitely work topically on the thighs or navel if you want some of the benefits of them.

Mind I stopped eating nuts a while back so I can't even say if it's specifically a nut thing or not. I think Ray is right in that olive oil is safe in very small amounts (not that people can actually decide if it's authentic or not even with USDA organic labels and the threats of lawsuits without proper documentation) but the only thing processed fat is good for orally is keeping starch from spiking glucose moreso than anything else. Elimination diets involve eliminating food/substances from your diet for 4-7 days to see what's making your body react.

 

[jet9]

I'm little experimenting last weeks with my diet and notice that when i eat some dietary fat, A COUPLE HOURS LATER my joints and old injury's start to hurt.
I'm now experimenting with coconut oil and tallow and besides that the both are low puffa, they are high omega 6.
But now i am thinking about it, long time ago when i was eating nuts, fish, olive oil etc, (which are lower omega 6 and higher omega 3) i had a lot of painfully joints to but I never thought that fats causing it.
So I THINK all fats causing it and at this moment coconut oil and tallow definitely does.

So it looks like low fat is definitely the cure for me but my question is of course why all de fats causing this?
People here with the same experience?

Did you find solution to this?