Diet: Peat Vs. Broda Barnes

Stryker

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I have noticed in rural/tribal people (in documentaries) that allot of these people have imperfect bodies, with different compositions...
Yes some tribes have close to perfect bodies according to our view, but most of them have saggy bums, hanging balls, round bellies and tea bag ***s...
Yesterday at school (western medicine foundation) where i am in class with allot of "health"freaks i noticed how one paleo guy looks pale, sluggish, abdominal fat and really grey hair, while a woman who is low carb and full of raw food looked amazing to me.....

Maybe it's the genes after all.....

no doubt
i think in the end there are certain problems that u cant just fix with a "diet"

when i first started getting into the truth about health and reading ray peats articles and forming the way i eat around it i felt about 50X better.. but as i tried to be more and more perfect my health declined and i was so dedicated to eating (and supplementing) for perfect health it developed into a serious anxiety.

but as the years went on and i loosend my grip on perfection and accepted theres some things u just cant change (genes) i was a much happier person
 

EIRE24

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I am eating a low fat diet (less than 5% of calories) and I'm gaining weight despite being on thyroid and having good temps and pulses and eating 3000kcal/day which is not a lot according to the standards on this forum (for my height and age).

I think that is because of the sugar (people here say that the de novo lipogenesis is low even with a lot of sugar but that is not my experience) so maybe I will start to eat less.


Although I used to think low fat was best (my health decreased on it) I think some fat is definitely crucial. I have noticed very dry skin from it and other signs of metabolic decrease. I find it hard to eat enough and I was already lean by many peoples standards it actually made me sickly thin. I was eating 3'500 calories a day and losing weight. It was mostly starch, I went through bags of rice and potatoes. Not much actual sugar. Maybe you should try starch
 

Parsifal

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How quickly did you jump to this level of eating from your previous?

I assume you're eating over 500g carbs per day? If you can't metabolise glucose well, then obviously you'll get fat.
Yes, I'm getting my calories mainly from carbs. I've dropped a bit of weight since stopping dairy so I will see if it continues.
 

Jenn

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You can loose weight fat either way, depending on your personal digestion. The generation that Barnes was working with much healthier than we are today and could digest fat better. If you think of it in terms of protein and energy, then what form your energy comes in is up to you.
 

superhuman

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Ok guys remember you can maintain weight on high,low or moderate amount of fat, like Broda Barnes said in the book that was posted. They found that it was the amount of calories that was the factor if they lost weight or not.

What i found interesting and it seems that no one has talked about was his claims about high protein caused some sort of drop in metabolic rate and thyroid and 4 grains of thyroid was needed to maintain normal metabolic rate and when protein was reduced the hyperthyroid was developed if thyroid was not reduced.

He is talking about protein intake of around 1 g/kg to be enough and i guess he would agree that more is needed if one is exercising.

Ray has talked many times of the benefits of protein and is recommending at least 80-100 grams a day and up to 150g for athletes. Maybe Broda Barnes experienced this thyroid drop because of the amino acid profile of the protein he ate which he said was meat etc ? so alot of trypthophan etc.

There have also been published alot of studies where they concluded that higher protein was better for fat loss, body recomp, metabolic rate and all that. So strange that Borda Barnes never talked about that aspect a bit more. Also it seems that he never used much exercise or muscle building things?

How much thyroid did he use and how was his thyroid regimen?
 

Xisca

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I have read Dr. Barnes book as well. i found the brilliance in his work was showing the association of a poor metabolism with most major illnesses.The majority of the book discussed his experience with using thyroid hormone supplementation to cure patients of their metabolic issues. It did not appear in the book that his best experiences came from nutritional expertuse but that thyroid hormone supplementation can help people get back on the right track. He also shared all his experiences with measuring temperature and heart rate to demonstrate hypothyroidism. Those are the key points I found which seems to support Dr. Peats views on the topic of hypothyroism and metabolic derangement.
This is what I do not understand: my results with thyroid and reverse thyroid were in the norm.
Appart that I am very thin, and never gained weight in my life, ever, I have signs of a low metabolism.
But how cann I cure my metabolic issue if I would not benefit from thyroid supplements?
I do have low temps and slow heart beats.
How can I have normal measurments AND hypothroidsm, is it posible?

About sugar annd fat, I do benefit from fats in my diet, so I do not know if I do well by increasing the sugar part....
I mainly benefit from fat when emulsified, mayonaise and mousse.
I mix this with bananas, and this can give me energy, better tan only banana.
I was eating more fat before Reading peat. I got better with more sugar, but then I went much worse.
I have never been so bad as now.
Looks like my FB and CFS is close. Of course, it was triggered by enormous stress in my life, I am sure this is the main trigger point.
And the paradox is that I help others with stress, and as this is not something you can do to yourself, I am short of the help I would like to receive....
 

Richiebogie

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Further to what superhuman posted above:

@Stryker wrote:

"simply put high calories + fat = weight gain"

Stryker recommends high carbs and high protein.

But Broda Barnes effectively says:

calories + protein = fat gain

Broda Barnes said:
In an English study reported in Lancet in 1956, investigators reported that weight was lost loss much faster on a high-fat diet than on a high-protein diet even though the calorie content was the same.

Broda Barnes said:
Apparently, a diet high in protein requires additional thyroid for its metabolism.

Broda Barnes said:
What was not realized was the effect of a diet high in protein on thyroid function - which explains why many patients have failed to lose weight on as few as 800 calories a day of such a diet and have been accused of cheating on their diet when, in fact, they did no cheating.

Broda Barnes also says that fat is more filling than carbs because it empties out of the stomach slower.

Broda Barnes also says that insulin from carbohydrates can be a potent factor in increasing appetite, but I believe Ray Peat has explained this effect is due to starch carbs and not sugar carbs, as the liver processes the glucose from sucrose much slower than our bloodstream absorbs chains of glucose from starch.
 
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Peater Piper

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Barnes also says that insulin from carbohydrates can be a potent factor in increasing appetite, but I believe Ray Peat has explained this effect is due to starch carbs and not sugar carbs, as the liver processes the glucose from sucrose much slower than our bloodstream absorbs chains of glucose from starch.
I think Peat would argue that the wrong kind of protein is detrimental to thyroid function. Regarding the above, I've found sugar to be far less satiating than starch, contrary to Peat's opinion. The more sugar I eat, the more frequently I feel I have to eat. I feel like this pans out a bit with fruitarians who often eat massive amounts of food, whereas those on the McDougall diet or even the potato diet frequently restrict their calories involuntarily. Of course, adding fat and protein into the equation, and mixing sugar with starch changes things.
 

Richiebogie

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So, after the heart numbers started to suit me, I went to skim milk and low fat cheese and reduced the butter a bit. The weight gain stopped, but I am sitting at a 240 and had been at 200 for the last decade or so. Now is time to shed some weight <b>without</b> doing any damage to the hormonal balance that could injure my heart via causing thyroid problems.

Hi Joe, did you have any luck dropping weight but keeping fit?

Did you try reducing protein but keeping fat and carbs up as per Broda Barnes' method?

Eg. Keep the full fat cheese and full fat milk but eat less of them.
 
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Richiebogie

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Appart that I am very thin, and never gained weight in my life, ever, I have signs of a low metabolism.

What is your diet like? How many calories?

Thinness is usually a sign of youth and good metabolism. Do you want more heat and muscle?

Do you do much exercise?
 

tara

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How many grains of thyroid does Broda Barnes recommend for treating hypothyroidism?
IIRC, gradual increase, starting with 1/4 grain, monitoring waking temps, incrementing monthly (because it takes at least 2-3 weeks at a steady dose for blood levels to stabilise) till waking temps come up in the range 97.8-98.2. He says if you take more than what is needed to get up to this temp, the body is likely to down-regulate its own production.
 

superhuman

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IIRC, gradual increase, starting with 1/4 grain, monitoring waking temps, incrementing monthly (because it takes at least 2-3 weeks at a steady dose for blood levels to stabilise) till waking temps come up in the range 97.8-98.2. He says if you take more than what is needed to get up to this temp, the body is likely to down-regulate its own production.

Get you. It also says his in his book "Generally, most people will require 4-6 grains daily. The lowest starting point is generally 3 grains daily (ref. Dr. Broda Barnes: Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness)"
This is for people with hypothyroidism

Im doing 3 grains right now but im only soon to be one week in. So im waiting for the 2 week mark to make any changes
 

tara

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This is for people with hypothyroidism
I'm guessing that 3 grains starting point assumes he had already diagnosed them as hypothyroid based on his usual set of clinical signs and symptoms, etc. If he thought there were other causes of issues - eg nutritional deficiencies or something - maybe he'd have been addressing them first. I haven't read much of his directly, just remembered that part about dosing.
 

Giraffe

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This is hilarious ...

"For a period of three months, she kept a precise record of everything they put into their mouths. The purpose was to find out if possible from their eathing habits and whims how they got into their present shape. And their shape was something to write home about. A total of thirteen patients where studied. The champion was a middle-aged woman with a height of exactly 60 inches and an abodminal measurement of 72 inches. She was literally "Mrs. 5 x 6" and weighed 350 pounds. There were two rolls of fat around her abdomen, one just above the pelvis and the other around the stomach area. The two rolls touched each other and resembled two tractor tires around a barrel."

-- Broda Barnes
 

lvysaur

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and accepted theres some things u just cant change (genes)
It's not always "genes" it's "gene environment mismatch" among many other things

if someone looks pale on paleo (lol) then it just isn't for them, their genes are suited to a different diet
OR, they are just f**ked from epigenetic and neonatal stressors, which will take at least another new generation to heal.
 

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