Diet Completely Free Of Salt? Possible To Survive / Thrive?

[burtlancast]

Then why do we need to give animals salt licks?

Salt licks are necessary only when the ratio of NaCl/Potassium in the food is disturbed ( NPK fertilizers). You can read the books of Andre Voisin about the problems of modern fertilizers which bring too much potassium.

Why do people on salt-reduced diets do so poorly especially the elderly who end up with pacemakers.

Look at the work of Mexican cardilogist Sodi-Pallares: he banished salt for his patients in cardiac failure.

I suspect Ray's comments apply to the situations were people were using diuretics to lower their NaCl body pool, and were overdoing it without realizing.

The problem with Ray is he often likes to talk in extremes and leaves his readers without perspective for the usual middle of the road.

For example, I've read here members advising cancer patients to salt their diet, which is crazy.

Salt is kind of a can of worms subject: maybe someone should start a dedicated thread.

 

[methylenewhite]

Hyponatemia is never caused by dietary salt restriction.

Humans and animals evolved over millenaires without the need of NaCl supplementation.

Especially goats evolved without need of NaCl. They climb that high to lick the salt only to mislead stupid human researchers. I guess they get paid by salt manufacturers


So do monkeys. I mean just to get paid. On all this videos across the web.


Fertilizers you say? Free-range sheep far away from civilization. Nepal.


Animals eat salt at will as soon as available.


Elephants.


Wild boar invades farm to eat salt
siga 2 - March 8 - 2011 - wild Boar eats from pillar of salt

 

[tankasnowgod]

Then why do we need to give animals salt licks? Why do people on salt-reduced diets do so poorly especially the elderly who end up with pacemakers.

It has always intrigued me. Gerson and Kempnar saw salt as a toxin, yet Peat views salt as being mandatory for taming adrenaline and improving metabolism. Many of the members on this forum would not be able to function optimally without it.

What about Solute: Sodium Symporter (SSS) Family?

Sodium-solute symporter - Wikipedia
Sodium-Iodide Symporter

Also, what about the amount of salt that humans have gotten in aside from diet? A significant amount of salt could be absorbed transdermally if a person spent a significant time in the ocean or other saltwater. A fair amount of salt could be inhaled, as well.

 

[ken]

Can anyone unpack this article for me on salt and depression? https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.5455/bcp.20121112025839

 

[burtlancast]

Especially goats evolved without need of NaCl. They climb that high to lick the salt only to mislead stupid human researchers. I guess they get paid by salt manufacturers


So do monkeys. I mean just to get paid. On all this videos across the web.


Fertilizers you say? Free-range sheep far away from civilization. Nepal.


Animals eat salt at will as soon as available.


Elephants.


Wild boar invades farm to eat salt
siga 2 - March 8 - 2011 - wild Boar eats from pillar of salt

Except you forgot to add these SALT LICKS are also called MINERAL LICKS.

"A mineral lick (also known as a salt lick) is a place where animals can go to lick essential mineral nutrients from a deposit of salts and other minerals. Mineral licks can be naturally occurring or artificial (such as blocks of salt that farmers place in pastures for livestock to lick). Natural licks are common, and they provide essential elements such as phosphorus and the biometals (sodium, calcium, iron, zinc, and trace elements) required in the springtime for bone, muscle and other growth in deer and other wildlife, such as moose, elephants, tapirs, cattle, woodchucks, domestic sheep, fox squirrels, mountain goats and porcupines. Such licks are especially important in ecosystems with poor general availability of nutrients. Harsh weather exposes salty mineral deposits that draw animals from miles away for a taste of needed nutrients. It is thought that certain fauna can detect calcium in salt licks.[1]"

And i repeat, an excess of potassium in plants from NPK fertilizers induces loss of sodium in animals through urine.
It's a perfectly natural kidney mechanism where potassium induces natriuresis.

And that's precisely the mechanism used by the Gerson people (vegetable juices) to rid the body of it's excess sodium always prevalent in cancer.

 

[paymanz]

And i repeat, an excess of potassium in plants from NPK fertilizers induces loss of sodium in animals through urine.

at least through aldosterone mechanism it induces exactly the opposite.

 

[paymanz]

what is salt restriction purpose exactly? hormonal effect? blood level of sodium,interstitial level?! i havent searched it but to what degree can you manipulate sodium levels?maybe diet has big impact on interstitial fluid sodium level , but in blood , stress hormones compensate the lower intake to keep levels normal.

and chloride also itself is another nutrient that we need.

 

[BearWithMe]

I love how both "salt is necessary" and "salt is not necessary" opinions in this thread is backed with very logical arguments. This thread is full of awesome posts, please keep them coming!

 

[tara]

Is it possible to survive in somewhat good health without eating any salt?

Non-expert comments ...

My understanding is that some people do well with little or no extra NaCl added to their food, as long as they transition gradually, and as long as their diet is other-wise fairly mineral-rich and diverse. On the other hand, I also know that some people seem to do better adding salt to their food (there are reports here in the forum, and I have to watch it myself), and some people can get dangerously ill with hyponatremia if they neglect daily NaCl. Some metabolic conditions can make it harder to retain sufficient sodium. Esp. in the face of too much water/sweating/nutrient-poor food. (I've seen serious loss of function, and I've seen it recover after careful restoration via slow saline drip in hospital.)

My body doesn't tolerate salt. I have tried every possible way of ingesting salt, have tried various brands / types of salt, but every time, I get intensive nausea, acid reflux, stomach pain, fatigue, brain fog and insatiable thirst.

I too am curious about what you mean by this?
Are you sensitive to:
- salt granules, sprinkled on food?
- salt incorporated during cooking and well diluted into foods such as soups or stews?
- any dilution, including very mild?
- all commercially prepared foods that include dissolved NaCl?
- naturally occurring NaCl in foods, eg seafood?
- iodised/non-iodised, with or without free-flow agents, etc?

Also wonder whether you happen to have any lab tests showing whether you are generally in the lower, higher or middle of the range for blood sodium? Not meaning you should necessarily run out to get some, but if you had any in the last while, or are getting tests for other reasons, this one might get done routinely, and could give reassurance or caution.

If I were in your shoes, and noticed no contra-indications, I'd consider:
- eating plenty of fruit and veges and broths that include the range of alkaline minerals
- keeping an eye on general metabolism
- keeping an eye out for symptoms
- cautiously try a little of well diluted salt in cooked food from time to time and watch what happens.

Hyponatemia is never caused by dietary salt restriction.

Even if a number of factors can contribute to hyponatremia, including various metabolic imbalances/dysfunctions, drinking too much plain water, mineral deficient diet, etc, and even if some people have maintained very good health without supplementing any NaCl, it's still true that eating insufficient sodium to replace losses can definitely be dangerous in some circumstances for some people. It might be wise to keep an eye on indicators from time to time.

 

[BearWithMe]

Hi Tara and many thanks for your post!

Are you sensitive to:
- salt granules, sprinkled on food?
- salt incorporated during cooking and well diluted into foods such as soups or stews?
- any dilution, including very mild?
- all commercially prepared foods that include dissolved NaCl?
- naturally occurring NaCl in foods, eg seafood?
- iodised/non-iodised, with or without free-flow agents, etc?

Have tried "keltic" natural salt without any additives, basic refined "supermarket" salt, iodised salt, salt without iodine, they all are causing symptoms. I'm not eating foods with lots of naturally occurring NaCl, so I can't comment on that, but things like disodium phosphate or sodium ascorbate as food additives does cause symptoms.

I can handle salt granules sprinkled on food better, than diluted salt, but not by a huge margin.

When the salt is diluted, it doesn't matter in how much liquid it is diluted, but the total amount of NaCl does matter.

Also wonder whether you happen to have any lab tests showing whether you are generally in the lower, higher or middle of the range for blood sodium?

Yes, I do!

2015:
Na: 142
K: 4,1
Cl: 102

2017:
Na: 142
K: 4
Cl: 96

2018:
Na: 141
K: 3,89
Cl: 103

Reference range for Na is 136-145 mmol/l in my lab. I was eating quite a lot of sodium in 2018, but almost no sodium in 2015. Also, I was eating significantly more potassium in 2018 than in previous years. Strange.

If I were in your shoes, and noticed no contra-indications, I'd consider:
- eating plenty of fruit and veges and broths that include the range of alkaline minerals
- keeping an eye on general metabolism
- keeping an eye out for symptoms
- cautiously try a little of well diluted salt in cooked food from time to time and watch what happens.

Even if a number of factors can contribute to hyponatremia, including various metabolic imbalances/dysfunctions, drinking too much plain water, mineral deficient diet, etc, and even if some people have maintained very good health without supplementing any NaCl, it's still true that eating insufficient sodium to replace losses can definitely be dangerous in some circumstances for some people. It might be wise to keep an eye on indicators from time to time.

Great tips, much appreciated!! You are absolutely right, since I have started to actively keep the intake of other mineals in optimal range, my health improved a lot. Especially magnesium and calcium makes me feel much better overall.

 

[tara]

Reference range for Na is 136-145 mmol/l in my lab. I was eating quite a lot of sodium in 2018, but almost no sodium in 2015. Also, I was eating significantly more potassium in 2018 than in previous years. Strange.

Looking at those numbers as a non-expert, it doesn't look as though you were anywhere near hyponatraemic at any of those test points, so if they were representative, I too would be wondering whether you need much or any extra sodium from NaCl as some people seem to.
But if you cut it down to zero added NaCl, this might be one to keep an occasional eye on if you ever get tests, or get related symptoms.

 

[lampofred]

It would probably depend on how good your thyroid/glucose oxidation is. If you are producing ample CO2, your body can easily retain enough sodium from the foods you eat that naturally contain it so that you don't need any extra sodium chloride, but if you have high estrogen, you'll dump salt and might experience several health troubles related to sodium deficiency like insomnia, excess serotonin secretion, seizures, etc if you don't have additional table/sea salt in your diet.

 

[TeaRex14]

Salt has played a pretty important part in our history. We found it was necessary to open trade ports around the world for salt. The fact people went to such great lengths to acquire salt in a time period when travel was low, slow, and dangerous says a lot. Peat recommends "salt to taste". If you have hypothyroidism and aldosterone issues supplementing pregnenolone, progesterone, or thyroid can increase your sodium retention. As a holdover, you can just increase your salt intake if you don't have pregnenolone, progesterone, or thyroid. But correcting thyroid is the best plan for long term success.

 

[Blossom]

Salt has played a pretty important part in our history. We found it was necessary to open trade ports around the world for salt. The fact people went to such great lengths to acquire salt in a time period when travel was low, slow, and dangerous says a lot.

True, so important that we get our English word salary from salt.
FACT: the word ‘salary’ comes from the history of salt

 

[TeaRex14]

True, so important that we get our English word salary from salt.
FACT: the word ‘salary’ comes from the history of salt

Ask your boss for more salt, haha.

 

[Blossom]

Ask your boss for more salt, haha.

Morton's canning salt boss.

 

[Constatine]

Not being able to tolerate salt could be a sign of gut dysbiosis. Salt slightly wears at the gut mucosa and can cause bacteria to translocate if the gut health is poor.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

My body doesn't tolerate salt. I have tried every possible way of ingesting salt, have tried various brands / types of salt, but every time, I get intensive nausea, acid reflux, stomach pain, fatigue, brain fog and insatiable thirst.

My doctor told me that my esophagus is damaged by the refulx and I'm thinking about avoiding salt altogether to stop further damage (and the suffering).

Is it possible to survive in somewhat good health without eating any salt?

I notice that caffeine( but not coffee) is beneficial for gut inflammations.

 

[EIRE24]

Not being able to tolerate salt could be a sign of gut dysbiosis. Salt slightly wears at the gut mucosa and can cause bacteria to translocate if the gut health is poor.

What would protect gut mucosa?

 

[TeaRex14]

Morton's canning salt boss.

Lol, I'm afraid to ask my boss for more salt. Some salt is always better then no salt.