Did I make a mistake by getting T3 only?

[RenaissanceMan]

I placed an order from the Mexican pharmacy a few days ago and they already shipped it! Most likely because I paid extra for fast shipping.

The thing is, I only bought Cynomel (T3).

I’ve had hypo symptoms for so many years and I’m finally taking the plunge into thyroid medicine. Thinning hair, cold extremities, difficulty building muscle, nonexistent appetite, and overwhelming fatigue. As I write this, I’m in bed, lacking energy to get up even though I technically overslept.

My plan is to take the Cynomel twice-a-day, one tablet with breakfast and one with dinner.

My gut told me to just order Cynomel so I don’t have to be concerned about the potential downsides of T4, such as reverse T3, fibrosis, bad conversion, etc.

But after reading more posts on here, I’m not sure if it was the right choice.

Has anyone experimented with this approach? Or can you offer any insight?

 

[RenaissanceMan]

I think T3 is more safe. T3 can't be converted to RT3 and also the short half life makes it easy to control. With T4 it's really slow progress and kicking in may take a month and also month to come down. You may have to split T3 dosage for 2-3 times a day, but im personally too lazy to do that so i just pop 25 mcg T3 with breakfast so it absorbs slowly.

This was my thought process as well.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

I’m gonna be taking 50 mcg daily, which I believe is equivalent to two grains.

 

[Green Dot]

I’m gonna be taking 50 mcg daily, which I believe is equivalent to two grains.

How many mcg per hour? The body produces around 4mcg per hour.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

How many mcg per hour? The body produces around 4mcg per hour.

I plan on taking one 25 mcg pill with breakfast at 8 AM and one 25 mcg pill with dinner around 6 PM. Would that be too much?

 

[TAG145]

I just transitioned to T3 only this week. Check out Paul Robinson's book "Recovering with T3..." Very insightful.
My reason is that I have been on NDT for 20 years with feeling less than optimal for the last 10 years. I trusted dr's but have really been failed since my really great dr. retired 4 years ago. T3 is the active, useable form of thyroid supplements and I had a suspicion that I was not converting T4 to T3. I also had some genetic tests that do show reduced function of conversion. I haven't finished the book yet, but have read about starting slow and increasing every 5 days. I am being cautious. Originally I was on 3 grains NDT, reduced to 2 grains for many years (reducing because I have gotten strange symptoms but still raging hypo symptoms), but recently reduced to 1.5 grains (4:1 ratio T4:T3, 57:13.5). I started 10 mcg T3 in the AM and 5 midday. After 5 days I'm at 10 and 10 mcg. I am hoping to optimize but also read that many people do very well on 25 2x or even 50 2x daily. I ordered 25 mcg from two different places...first time buying this online w/out rx.
Good luck!

Amazon product ASIN 0957099347View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0957099347?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

 

[TAG145]

Does anyone know if food interferes with T3 meds? Dairy? I thought I read calcium interferes and then others have said chew them so that they get in your bloodstream without having to be broken down in stomach.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

I just transitioned to T3 only this week. Check out Paul Robinson's book "Recovering with T3..." Very insightful.
My reason is that I have been on NDT for 20 years with feeling less than optimal for the last 10 years. I trusted dr's but have really been failed since my really great dr. retired 4 years ago. T3 is the active, useable form of thyroid supplements and I had a suspicion that I was not converting T4 to T3. I also had some genetic tests that do show reduced function of conversion. I haven't finished the book yet, but have read about starting slow and increasing every 5 days. I am being cautious. Originally I was on 3 grains NDT, reduced to 2 grains for many years (reducing because I have gotten strange symptoms but still raging hypo symptoms), but recently reduced to 1.5 grains (4:1 ratio T4:T3, 57:13.5). I started 10 mcg T3 in the AM and 5 midday. After 5 days I'm at 10 and 10 mcg. I am hoping to optimize but also read that many people do very well on 25 2x or even 50 2x daily. I ordered 25 mcg from two different places...first time buying this online w/out rx.
Good luck!

Amazon product ASIN 0957099347View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0957099347?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

Very helpful, thank you

Does anyone know if food interferes with T3 meds? Dairy? I thought I read calcium interferes and then others have said chew them so that they get in your bloodstream without having to be broken down in stomach.

I've read that taking it with a large meal can slow down absorption, which helps with getting a steady release over time while your food digests

 

[Green Dot]

I plan on taking one 25 mcg pill with breakfast at 8 AM and one 25 mcg pill with dinner around 6 PM. Would that be too much?

Yep, you should take 1mcg per hour, maybe even less to be on the safe side

 

[TAG145]

Very helpful, thank you

I've read that taking it with a large meal can slow down absorption, which helps with getting a steady release over time while your food digests

thank you.
I'm okay with slowing absorption, but didn't know if anything actually blocks or interferes. I know they make Slow-Release T3 also, but that is not recommended by most.

 

[Rasaari]

I think T3 only supplement is the best way to start for anyone whos hypo. Your body still produces T4 & T3 and it doesnt immediately slow the production. However your 50mcg starting dosage is very stupid idea. You already have some thyroid in tissues and adrenaline and taking a lot at once will not only produce bad hyper symptoms but the liver will catch on quickly and start to destroy excess exogenous T3. Ray has said that 10mcg after a meal would be the maximum dosage at once. Due to the reasons I mentioned above and many others you should start with something like 5-10mcg at once for a week or two and then go up in similar steps. Trust me, I went too fast myself. After a few weeks/months you'll probably notice worsening of sleep, at which point bringing in some T4 would be favorable. I think you'll greatly benefit from thyroid supplementation, I know I did. I've tried all kinds of things and T3 really was the first thing to make me able to start doing things, wake up readily etc. and Im not even that hypo.

Ray has mentioned how fluoride destroys T3, Im not sure I have noticed that, although I still try to avoid interaction. Theres a study about combining T4 and calcium and It showed about 20% reduction in absorption, unfortunately they didn't test T3. I have mixed T3 in milk and I think it works, I'm not sure how much less. Usually I mix T3 in fresh oj.

I recommend reading this: Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation
And watching many of his videos about thyroid, broda barnes thyroid book and rays thyroid articles.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

I think T3 only supplement is the best way to start for anyone whos hypo. Your body still produces T4 & T3 and it doesnt immediately slow the production. However your 50mcg starting dosage is very stupid idea. You already have some thyroid in tissues and adrenaline and taking a lot at once will not only produce bad hyper symptoms but the liver will catch on quickly and start to destroy excess exogenous T3. Ray has said that 10mcg after a meal would be the maximum dosage at once. Due to the reasons I mentioned above and many others you should start with something like 5-10mcg at once for a week or two and then go up in similar steps. Trust me, I went too fast myself. After a few weeks/months you'll probably notice worsening of sleep, at which point bringing in some T4 would be favorable. I think you'll greatly benefit from thyroid supplementation, I know I did. I've tried all kinds of things and T3 really was the first thing to make me able to start doing things, wake up readily etc. and Im not even that hypo.

Ray has mentioned how fluoride destroys T3, Im not sure I have noticed that, although I still try to avoid interaction. Theres a study about combining T4 and calcium and It showed about 20% reduction in absorption, unfortunately they didn't test T3. I have mixed T3 in milk and I think it works, I'm not sure how much less. Usually I mix T3 in fresh oj.

I recommend reading this: Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation
And watching many of his videos about thyroid, broda barnes thyroid book and rays thyroid articles.

Okay thank you.

I was saying 50 mcg because of this clip
View: https://twitter.com/dannyroddy/status/1433145653056708624


But I should probably work my way up to avoid hyperthyroidism, like you said.

Is it true that the liver destroys exogenous T3? I thought that was only the case for T4.

How about starting with 25 mcg instead? The Cynomel pills only come in 25 mcg doses.

Hopefully they're easy to break in half, if so I can just split the 25 mcg pill in half (12.5 mcg) and take 1/2 with breakfast, then 1/2 with dinner.

 

[JKX]

Cut the tablets into quarters or preferably eighths and take those small doses with or after food throughout the day as required. Do not take a full tab at once, your liver will deactivate it.

 

[Jing]

Cut the tablets into quarters or preferably eighths and take those small doses with or after food throughout the day as required. Do not take a full tab at once, your liver will deactivate it.

I don't think this is true there are many people who take 25mcgs or more at once and it works fine for them?

 

[Rasaari]

I think the 50mcg is something that is achieved after a long time, a general suggestion by ray. Some people may need even more, but 50mcg properly done will stabilize most.

25mcg a day is still too much for starting, doing like JKX suggests or cutting it half and nibbling it throughout the day.

I don't think this is true there are many people who take 25mcgs or more at once and it works fine for them?

Well, if your body needs say 4mcg T3 and you take 25mcg, your liver is going to deactivate most, say 21mcg for example, leaving you still benefitting. I've been able to cause hyperthyroidism with T3 just few times after that taking extra T3 just has caused me to go more hypo. There are also many people here on the forum who have done very large doses, say 125mcg a day to no benefit, proving that the liver quite readily deactivates T3 once it gets used to the high excess. Even topical doesn't seem to avoid this. I wonder what the effects of rT2 and other downstream metabolites are, as they are not very studied, and if they are behind the "deactivation" hypothesis.

For long the doctors have been trying to give people once a day doses of T3 and always having very poor results.

 

[Jing]

I think the 50mcg is something that is achieved after a long time, a general suggestion by ray. Some people may need even more, but 50mcg properly done will stabilize most.

25mcg a day is still too much for starting, doing like JKX suggests or cutting it half and nibbling it throughout the day.



Well, if your body needs say 4mcg T3 and you take 25mcg, your liver is going to deactivate most, say 21mcg for example, leaving you still benefitting. I've been able to cause hyperthyroidism with T3 just few times after that taking extra T3 just has caused me to go more hypo. There are also many people here on the forum who have done very large doses, say 125mcg a day to no benefit, proving that the liver quite readily deactivates T3 once it gets used to the high excess. Even topical doesn't seem to avoid this. I wonder what the effects of rT2 and other downstream metabolites are, as they are not very studied, and if they are behind the "deactivation" hypothesis.

For long the doctors have been trying to give people once a day doses of T3 and always having very poor results.

Ok cool, do you think 6mcg at once is OK? Im using tiromel 25mcg tabs and the smallest I can get it to is 6mcg.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

Dr John Lowe took all his t3 in one hit. 150 t3 per day.

Some do well on saturating the cells with t3.

Some do better with a little and often.

T3

Stress accelerates the breakdown of T3, so those with greater inflammation often need more T3 to achieve the same effect.

Many report better results from splitting their dosage, but beyond two dosages per day, there's less of a discernible difference.

Great thread! Been trying to get my head around this for quite some time. In my bodybuilding days i was on 25-50mcg T3 taken just 1x in the morning and it seemed to work fine in terms of getting/staying lean. Unfortunately i didnt really track temps/pulse or tried to avoid running on the stress hormones back then so im not sure if i was messing something up

Stopping the T3 i did feel a shutdown of natural thryoid production which took around 10-14 days to recover.

After finding peat and the forum, i tried doing it in his recommended way of multiple microdoses / day but couldnt seem to get it to work in terms of well-being, stable pulse/temps etc.

 

[Dr. B]

I think T3 only supplement is the best way to start for anyone whos hypo. Your body still produces T4 & T3 and it doesnt immediately slow the production. However your 50mcg starting dosage is very stupid idea. You already have some thyroid in tissues and adrenaline and taking a lot at once will not only produce bad hyper symptoms but the liver will catch on quickly and start to destroy excess exogenous T3. Ray has said that 10mcg after a meal would be the maximum dosage at once. Due to the reasons I mentioned above and many others you should start with something like 5-10mcg at once for a week or two and then go up in similar steps. Trust me, I went too fast myself. After a few weeks/months you'll probably notice worsening of sleep, at which point bringing in some T4 would be favorable. I think you'll greatly benefit from thyroid supplementation, I know I did. I've tried all kinds of things and T3 really was the first thing to make me able to start doing things, wake up readily etc. and Im not even that hypo.

Ray has mentioned how fluoride destroys T3, Im not sure I have noticed that, although I still try to avoid interaction. Theres a study about combining T4 and calcium and It showed about 20% reduction in absorption, unfortunately they didn't test T3. I have mixed T3 in milk and I think it works, I'm not sure how much less. Usually I mix T3 in fresh oj.

I recommend reading this: Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation
And watching many of his videos about thyroid, broda barnes thyroid book and rays thyroid articles.

what about NDT like whats sold at forefront healths site? when I used T3 only it burned up my muscle tissue and i actually gained weight and ended up worse off, using 48mcg T3 a day split into 8mcg every 2 hours. the bodybuilding forum sites seemed right on the dot, those guys said they dont like t3 as a fat burner because it seems to burn everything whether muscle or fat and they need to burn fat only. I asked Ray about it and he said the body only makes a few mcg T3 an hour and providing more than that can cause a stress response. t4 and T3 combo therapy or NDT seem to be the best methods... T4 has issues of its own, T3 has issues of its own. Also i think T3 and T4 both reduce TSH? so in some cases you could end up more hypo as commonly happens with T4 only, and sometimes with T3 only.

 

[Vileplume]

A few mcg every 2-3 hours of T3-only helped snap me out of a stress response immediately, but I found that over time, like a month or so, my adrenaline and low thyroid patterns (tachycardia and hot flashes) started to come back, despite continuing the same amount of T3-only. Adding in some T4 nipped the problems in the bud.

Still, I’ve seen several accounts on this forum, and some doctors too, who do well on T3-only.

 

[Rasaari]

@RenaissanceMan Mmm how does one saturate cells with T3 taking 150mcg... If in any way you could get that amount to the cells you would have a heart attack. There's no storage of T3 afaik and its half life is very short, it needs to be carried to the cells which would also limit the "saturation". The excess exogenous would be either deactivated or turned into rT2.

There are many kinds of inflammation and other factors that disrupt thyroids action on the cells, like estrogen, pufa/ffa, NO, prostaglandins, bacterial products (endotoxins, pieces of genes etc.) vitamin deficiencies etc. I think a little overcompensation with T3 would be beneficial like Dave said but finding the culprit would be necessary and why going slow helps one to identify those factors.

Regarding andman, I wonder if he had T4 also or was going with only T3 which like Ray said in mr.bolloxes comment could be stressful. Or maybe he has slower liver digestion of it. Or maybe he needed less T3 in the beginning and the big doses gave him the needed amount and the rest was excreted. But whatever floats your boat.

what about NDT like whats sold at forefront healths site? when I used T3 only it burned up my muscle tissue and i actually gained weight and ended up worse off, using 48mcg T3 a day split into 8mcg every 2 hours. the bodybuilding forum sites seemed right on the dot, those guys said they dont like t3 as a fat burner because it seems to burn everything whether muscle or fat and they need to burn fat only. I asked Ray about it and he said the body only makes a few mcg T3 an hour and providing more than that can cause a stress response. t4 and T3 combo therapy or NDT seem to be the best methods... T4 has issues of its own, T3 has issues of its own. Also i think T3 and T4 both reduce TSH? so in some cases you could end up more hypo as commonly happens with T4 only, and sometimes with T3 only.

NDTs are interesting in that regard that they may have those downstream metabolites of T2 and T1, how much those have effect I can't tell. Probably T4&T3 will provide all that you need. I think starting with T3 is always the best strategy to start(unless your thyroid has been cut out), and after a while bringing in T4. A good Ndt could be very good for someone after they have stabilised, as its smooth and digests slower and may contain some additional metabolites, however tinkering with the ratios would be harder and the dosages might vary. Ray talked about how people at Merck experimented with the beef and pork ndts and they always came to the conclusion that 3:1 ratio was the best for rats.

I mean did you build it up slowly and feed it properly? Especially at that dosage you would require quite a lot of carbs. After sufficient protein the next most important would be to have enough carbs to ensure nitrogen retention and to lower stress. That T3 dosage was quite high and could be stressful like ray said, although ray has said that his most on only T3 was 50mcg and he noticed his thyroid glands reduce in size. As much as I respect bodybuilders independence and anti-authoritarianism, their ideas seem to be many times quite idiotic. Usually their way of burning fat is to throw carbs out of the window and crank themselves with ephedrine, clenbuterol, dnp and all the other fun stuff they use for burning fat. Yes both of them reduce TSH, increased thyroid activity reduces TSH. Yeah some of the benefit of even low doses of T4 in hypo people would be the reduction of TSH. T3 only has many advantages if one is unable to properly use T4. Additional T4 not only converts to T3 in the liver to provide stable blood levels, but also a little converts in the cells themselves, and it may even have little action independently.