CoolTweetPete

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diamant-wolverine.jpg

Exactly what came to mind when I saw its name lol. Excited to see what weaponizing effects it has on my mice.
 

DaveFoster

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This seems remarkably dangerous to play around together with other supplements. I'm curious to hear more from others.
 
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Rad

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Thanks! Now I know what's in that bottle I already got :)

My primary interest and enthusiasm for this product is based on its potential properties around ADHD and ADD*. It turns out that one of those derivatives - Bromantane - is often used for that purpose. Do you have any thoughts on Adamantane for ADD/ADHD, and how it "compares and contrasts" to Bromantane?

*This would be for me - it's been a serious and lifelong problem around attention, focus, motivation and "sticktoitiveness" - and nothing "Peaty" has yet touched it.

Have you come across Harold Levinson. I have his books Undestanding Attention Deficit Disorder and Smart but Dumb (on Dyslexia) and he links both dysfunctions within the inner ear system. He uses antimotion sickness, antihistamines and other cerebellar-vsetibular system stabilizing drugs
 

Rand56

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I've spent some time reading up on some threads from other sites in regards to bromantane. Sounds like it was a total mixed bag. Some getting good results, and others it was a dud, or initially they felt something, but then fizzled out on the effects. Hopefully this adamantine will be consistent in it's effect. It's worth a shot for me since I struggle with low dopamine. Will be ordering it today.
 

Ingenol

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How does the body metabolize and ultimately excrete this? Seems like a potential concern for relatively unreactive compounds that aren't soluble in water.
 

aquaman

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Yes, as far as I know. Why do you need more quotes from Peat? He mentioned only once things like uridine, camphor, DHT, etc and they are all quite beneficial and he has spoken favorably of them when asked. There is a ton of evidence on the adamantane derivatives going back 50 years and most of the work was done in Soviet Block so there was not much commercial motive to tout their benefits, which means the findings are probably legit.

He mentions it in one of the audio interviews, quite a long discussion about Alzheimer’s and Parkinson's
If you search www.l-i-g-h-t.com for adamantane and "audio only", you will find it
Transcript here:
Herb Doctors: Environmental Enrichment-Bad Science

Ray Peat said:
But at the time they were just interested in the fact that the environment could cause these major biological changes especially in the brain. But a lot of people said, “Well, if you are destroying acetylcholine at a higher rate and the brain gets bigger, that must mean you have more activity of the cholinergic nerves making acetylcholine”. But that isn’t what they found, they found that the enzyme that destroys it was increased as the brain got bigger, and that kind of reasoning without facts shifted over to thinking about the deterioration of the brain in Alzheimer’s disease. And they saw that there was less tissue in parts of the brain, especially in the cholinergic part, and no one suggested that maybe overexposure to acetylcholine might have something to do with why the nerves atrophied, because the various stress signals increase the various factors that cause brain shrinkage. So, they proposed poisoning the enzyme cholinesterase, which was associated in the animal studies with increased intelligence, memory and brain growth. They proposed doing just the opposite, poisoning that enzyme to increase the amount of acetylcholine in the brain. The first drug that was proposed and used according to that theory was Tacrine, was the name of the chemical and several studies, by the late '90s, they were seeing that it did absolutely nothing for the Alzheimer’s dementia but it did cause a terrifically high incidence of liver disease. So in the '70s it happened that Parkinson’s disease was, they were looking around for other things than L -¬dopa to treat it with because that didn't work too well and some virus treatment investigations had found that a derivative of camphor or a similar compound that was used to cure Herpes and Influenza also had nerve protective actions and they thought “Why not use this Admantane or Adamantane-¬amine to treat Parkinson’s disease?” And they found that it did benefit Parkinson’s disease which involved, among other things, an excess of acetylcholine and this Amantadine was known right from the time of the virus studies, it was known to be an anti-¬cholinergic drug and it was recognised as an anti-¬-cholinergic when it was being used to improve Parkinson’s patients. But the Alzheimer’s people seeing the success with Parkinson’s disease wanted to try it in their population, but since they were already treating with something that increased the cholinergic acetylcholine, they couldn’t very well switch right over to something absolutely the opposite to inhibit the cholinergic system -¬ so they suddenly discovered that as well as being anti-¬cholinergic, Amantadine and the very similar Memantine, they found that they also inhibit the excitotoxins , the glutamate aspartate excitatory system - ¬ so suddenly this anti-cholinergic drug became an anti -¬excitatory drug and was fit to be used in Alzheimer’s patients in combination with Tacrine or the Galantamine or other drugs to poison the enzyme which this new drug was activating.
 
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Looking forward to trying it! @haidut Have you dosed this to your rats orally as well as topically? Is this something that would need to be taken near the full dose for rats to feel the effects or have there been observation of effects at lower doses?

I have tried both routes. Topical seems to last longer, as for other supplements. Even 10mg seems to produce a potent effects on my rats.
 
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haidut

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How does the body metabolize and ultimately excrete this? Seems like a potential concern for relatively unreactive compounds that aren't soluble in water.

It is very minimally metabolized since it is such a stable chemical. Mostly acetylation and then excretion. Since it is so lipophilic, the half life is probably on the order of 24+ hours (as it is for the other derivatives) so it may be taken every other day or eve less often.
TGA eBS - Product and Consumer Medicine Information Licence
"...Amantadine is metabolised to a minor extent, principally by N-acetylation. Whether this metabolic pathway is affected by acetylator phenotype remains to be determined."
 
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haidut

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He mentions it in one of the audio interviews, quite a long discussion about Alzheimer’s and Parkinson's
If you search www.l-i-g-h-t.com for adamantane and "audio only", you will find it
Transcript here:
Herb Doctors: Environmental Enrichment-Bad Science

Awesome, thanks! It would be nice if he does a newsletter or a radio show on adamantane and its derivatives. I think there are one of the most versatile substance in our possession as they oppose most of the mediators of the stress reaction he has been writing about - cortisol, prolactin, serotonin, acetylcholine, glutamate, viruses, bacteria, etc.
 
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haidut

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This seems remarkably dangerous to play around together with other supplements. I'm curious to hear more from others.

Why would it be dangerous Dave? It's basically a more stable and probably safer version of camphor.
 

satsumass

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Thanks! Now I know what's in that bottle I already got :)

My primary interest and enthusiasm for this product is based on its potential properties around ADHD and ADD*. It turns out that one of those derivatives - Bromantane - is often used for that purpose. Do you have any thoughts on Adamantane for ADD/ADHD, and how it "compares and contrasts" to Bromantane?

*This would be for me - it's been a serious and lifelong problem around attention, focus, motivation and "sticktoitiveness" - and nothing "Peaty" has yet touched it.

This is HUGE for me too. Affects everything else. Diagnosed bipolar 2 but graduated top of class ivy league engineering, never hyper as a child, but as an adult and post BP2 have had basically life-destrucrive issues with attentional control motivation and persistence even independent of mood state. Stimulants help somewhat but more often than not lead to hyperfocus. I do believe memantine helped but only in the beginning and possibly at higher than normal (30-40mg) doses...but it absolutely pooped out.

Bought a bunch of ladasten to try but think I will give this product a go first...would definitely like to know how the products compare and would really be interested in HDAC inhibitor properties and what one might expect from that

@ThinkPerceive one thing that I do recall helping that my psychiatrist was quite creative about using was disulfiram...DBH inhibitor increases dopamine synthesis...may try again but it pooped out like most pro-dopaminergics and you can't drink on it
 

Pointless

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Why would it be dangerous Dave? It's basically a more stable and probably safer version of camphor.

Anything that is unknown could be harmful. Some safety or toxicology information would be a relief. Is the LD50 known? It seems to have been used in human trials, and there are other tests like anti-viral drugs bonded to adamantane to make it cross the BBB, so that's helpful.
 

DaveFoster

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Why would it be dangerous Dave? It's basically a more stable and probably safer version of camphor.
As alluded to in your OP, memantine is known to dramatically increase caffeine tolerance, similar to sulbutiamine. I'm not sure if adamantane has the same effects, but I'd assume there's some overlap, again referencing your OP. I'm sure it's very protective, but I'm finding mostly negative effects from stacking too many drugs and supplements (mostly because it makes me go hyperthyroid).

I would start with really low doses of this substance, but I'm generally overly cautious.
 

CoconutEffect

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As alluded to in your OP, memantine is known to dramatically increase caffeine tolerance, similar to sulbutiamine. I'm not sure if adamantane has the same effects, but I'd assume there's some overlap, again referencing your OP. I'm sure it's very protective, but I'm finding mostly negative effects from stacking too many drugs and supplements (mostly because it makes me go hyperthyroid).

I would start with really low doses of this substance, but I'm generally overly cautious.
There's some conjecture that memantine decreases tolerance to opioids, possibly amphetamines and maybe benzodiazpenes.
I don't have the mental energy at the moment to post the sources
but I suppose this could be a good and bad thing depending on the context and the therapeutic strategy.
 

Tarmander

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It is funny how so many of these experimental substances start to sound the same. Basically anti-serotonin affects every stress hormone, same with pro dopamine, same with anti estrogen, same with pro T or progesterone.

The difficult part is finding how these fit into the framework each individual is developing. This substance intrigues me because I am sensitive to the excitotoxin effects of MSG. I have found that ingesting ginger soon after accidental MSG intake will mitigate the excitotoxic crash. There are studies on that.

I will hear some experiences on this before jumping onboard. The long half life sounds like it increases the risks and benefits. Anything that is calming though is great in my book. Like Dave, I can also get hyperthyroid if I take too many things. My temps in the afternoon are already up to 99.5 with androsterone and tyromix.
 

ThinkPerceive

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Have you come across Harold Levinson. I have his books Undestanding Attention Deficit Disorder and Smart but Dumb (on Dyslexia) and he links both dysfunctions within the inner ear system

I'll check it out. However if that kind of inner ear dysfunction disrupts balance it's probably not my issue - my balance is quite good. That said, I have a friend who had life-changing results from a frenectomy - fixing a "tongue tie". Apparently if even a minor tongue tie is untreated it can have huge repercussions with everything from balance to social behavior. I'm mentioning that because, seemingly unimportant issues (like inner ear stuff) can have significant compounded impacts into adulthood.
 

sugarisgreat

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Have you come across Harold Levinson. I have his books Undestanding Attention Deficit Disorder and Smart but Dumb (on Dyslexia) and he links both dysfunctions within the inner ear system. He uses antimotion sickness, antihistamines and other cerebellar-vsetibular system stabilizing drugs

Do you know if he says these are items a child can take long term? My oldest son has a lot of similar issues and I recall the delivery nurse said he passed the infant hearing test faster than any baby she had tested in the previous 25 years. I just ordered his book on amazon out of curiosity. Thank you for this tip.
 

ThinkPerceive

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Do you know if he says these are items a child can take long term? My oldest son has a lot of similar issues and I recall the delivery nurse said he passed the infant hearing test faster than any baby she had tested in the previous 25 years. I just ordered his book on amazon out of curiosity. Thank you for this tip.

You know, I just had a hearing test (I'm 61), and it was the best they had ever measured in their office. I like to joke I didn't listen to that much rock and roll when younger - but maybe inner-ear stuff can actually mean hearing that's "too" good. I do have a problem filtering out noise - so perhaps it's all related.
 

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