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Diamant - Adamantane Solution For Lab/R&D

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. artlange

    artlange Member

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    Two nights ago, my rat did not ingest any Diamant. The Stage 3 Deep Sleep that night as measured with the Oura ring for the rat was 43 minutes. Last night, before going to bed, the rat took 5 drops of Diamant, and also a total of 1 tsp inosine powder ( 1/2 tsp at lunch and before bed to reduce his norepinephrine) and the rest of the supplements for the rat were the same. The rat's Deep Sleep was 1hr 50min. this is the most deep sleep ever in a night for the rat since starting Deep Sleep tracking. (the rat has been supplementing on and off for the last two months with 5 drps Lisuride 2x/day so dopamine and norepinephrine were high (as measured with the OAT Urine test.) The inosine may have reduced the norepionephrine last night and along with the diamont resulted in a lot of Deep Sleep.
     
  2. Terma

    Terma Member

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    Can confirm that this appears to consistently improve bowel movements in subjects who otherwise have variable response to other 5-HT3 antagonists. Novel feature.

    Sleep is undisturbed, time to sleep possibly improved, but signs of less refreshing sleep on wake.

    After attempt at 4-day-straight application (~15 drops/day) however the tiredness a few hours after application became excessive for subjects, though it couldn't be described as the effects of "brain fog" (memantine). Mighty 5a-DHP helped counter this, but this will lead to overusing 5a-DHP to maintain adamantane usability so the experiment is aborted (not convinced enough re-regulation will happen fast enough in these subjects if at all).

    No question it's dopaminergic but most curious about what specific profile it gives the cholinergic system after chronic use and discontinuation, if written somewhere missed it.
     
  3. Regina

    Regina Member

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    Pretty cool artlange, Do you plan on continuing an inosine regimen for this rat? And is that 1 full tsp daily (divided)? Does the rat also take pregnenolone (or panseterone) daily in addition to the diamant?
     
  4. artlange

    artlange Member

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    My rat did not take inosine at lunch today and will take 1/2tsp inosine tonight. Inosine seemed to help, and the rat want's to know about how much is needed. In the morning the rat takes about 70mg pregnenolone.

    Rat's bedtime "stack" is 4 or 5 drops progestE, 50mg B6 P5P, theanine, glutathione, NDT, 500 mg niaciamide, 325mg aspirin, 5ea of 7 days per week 5 drops lisuride, and milk with 1Tbs sugar.
     
  5. Regina

    Regina Member

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    :thumbsup:
     
  6. artlange

    artlange Member

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    with 1/2 tsp inosine and everything else the same rat had 1:36 (h:mm) stage 3 deep sleep and the night before with 2x 1/2 tsp inosine the Deep sleep was 1:50 (h:mm) this looks like a little dose dependency (or random noise!) both the 1:50 and 1:36 deep sleep were significantly more than any other two nights in a row with diamant (the next two nights were 1:30 and 1:37, without inosine.) conclusion: rat will be given at least 1/2tsp inosine and preferrably 2x 1/2 tsp (to lower norepinephrine) from the high dopamine levels raising norepinephrine.
     
  7. Constatine

    Constatine Member

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    I experience this as well. Had to stop taking it for now. Great effects but my sleep was too interrupted.
     
  8. Terma

    Terma Member

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    Yeah. Also in my experience and in studies opioids have a similar effect on sleep. They have a lot of parallels. It shows there's a lot of power in this substance, but not clear how to use it. But I think, the next time (or if) I end up on opioids, I'll try adamantane during the withdrawal. I bet in that circumstance it will help sleep.
     
  9. d1d2

    d1d2 Member

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    How do you like your Oura ring? Regarding rat sleep tracking, do you believe it correlates well to how your rat feels the next day? Any other experiences with your rat's sleep testing since last reported?

    Thanks!
     
  10. artlange

    artlange Member

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    I still have a few days to be sure of the effects, however, it looks like diamant, lisuride and inosine seem to provide the best deep sleep. I did not feed my rat diamant last night (and did use lisuride 2x during the day and inosine at lunch and just before bed.) My rat ended up with the lowest deep sleep of the last month. Diamant seems to be most importnt. tonight the rat will take all three (lisuride, inosine and diamant) at their usual times. In a few days the rat will not use lisuride, as part of the cycle to avoid a reduction of effect by continuous use.

    A few days ago the rat used cyproheptadine and it seem to reduce deep sleep. Need more repeats of that experiment, while holding the other supplements constant.

    I find the Oura ring very helpful for my sleep research (the rat been using it for six months) It may not be as accurate as an EEG, however it is very convenient and does seem to give consistent results. the rat's periods of highest AHI do appear mostly during REM sleep. The sleep tracker does seem to correlate results with the supplements. However, there is some noise, and for a single night's good results, I always want to repeat the trial to see that the rat's results are consistent. This is an on-going experiment.
     
  11. Ron J

    Ron J Member

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    Would there be any problems/negative interaction if I take cabergoline and diamant?
    Edit: @haidut does adamantane have the same potential heart valve problem like bromocriptine? Is it purely dopaminergic or does it also have some serotonin agonism like bromocriptine?
     
  12. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Interesting, thanks for the feedback! I personally started with 5 drops daily for a week when I was experimenting with it. More was too stimulating. Over time I was able to use more but I still think for most people 5-10 drops is plenty.
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Why would a GABA agonist cause psychosis? And no, I am not aware of any of the adamantane derivatives causing psychosis or withdrawal.
     
  14. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    This is strong stuff. 5-10 mg is more than enough for me. Amantadine which is used as an anti-viral has tablets which come in 100 mg! I think those patients who receive Amantadine for the flu are totally whacked out on such as dose. I know I felt very uncomfortable and dissociated when I took the full dose of Diamant (33 mg)
     
  15. Constatine

    Constatine Member

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    Yeah it has strong dissociative effects. The effect disappears after a few weeks, a sometimes just one week. Though it has such a long half life it builds up in your system if you take it everyday thus this the effect might not disappear.
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The dissociation is from NMDA antagonism, and magnesium and ketamine have the same effects. The NMDA antagonism seems to be the mechanism behind the rapid antidepressant effects of ketamine, magnesium and the adamantane derivatives.
     
  17. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    How do you know foamy urine is because of that ? Any sources ? I do have foamy urine, but I thought it could be many things. I think Ray never mentioned excessive lipolysis or adrenalin as a reason for foamy urine.
     
  18. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Ray has mentioned this a few times. Ray says the body attaches a molecule to the excess hormone and then it turns more water soluble and slips right on out, hence the foam. Of course he said it better. :ss

    Glucuronidation - Wikipedia

    I am pretty good now at telling when there will be no foam. When in the zone, no foam. :ss2
     
  19. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    But also could be polutants and other things right? If I am reading that wiki right.
     
  20. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Hey charlie, I also heard Ray mentioning that, but that could be other hormones, not just adrenaline.
     
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