DHT Vs Testosterone Safety

Jsaute21

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Sorry if I came accross as a know-it-all for my first posts on this board, I should keep an open-minded attitude and keep questioning everything I "know", no matter how surprising a practice first appears to be.

For my personal case, laying off gluten and eating a diet that is richer in protein and lower in carbs has me feeling a lot more energetic and mentally clear.
I used to have brain fog, and that typical after-meal lethargy.

When it comes to hormone, what I've learnt and what I've experimented lead me to think that any exogenous introduction will dictate that your body downregulate by so much.
In the case of DHT, we know that it exerts a positive feedback loop on the 5AR enzyme, but the downregulation will come at the testosterone level.
Also, I don't know which amount will lower your estrogens to the point you feel it, but I definitely felt it.

It's good to go by how you feel when experimenting, also remember to get blood drawn at some point to confirm your feeling

Very respectable post.
 

Jsaute21

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Is Think. Perceive. Act. really the right process for everyone though? What about stupid people or uneducated or misinformed people? Ray Peat would be able to make better decisions then me. And many people on this forum because they are smarter and have better information then me. Maybe they can see where some information is biased or incorrect where I cannot.

Also I thought "if something makes you feel good" it does NOT necessarily mean it is good. People like the cocaine example or you could be running on stress hormones, etc.

I wouldn't want someone to take DHT because it makes them feel good but its doing damage to them somehow. What should someone look out for if they do decide to take it?

I know the feeling and valid points. Ray Peat is smarter than all of us. That is true. I just think it is extremely important to not rely on others for very specific advice when relating to YOUR own health. It is a very dangerous path to go down and leaves you unable to trouble shoot your own issues and problems. It is easy to get overwhelmed when thinking about your own health. Just try and keep in mind that there are natural and healthy ways to facilitate DHT production. I am sure you are aware of those ways such as adequate carbohydrate, adequate protein, strength training, coffee in moderation, etc. Those should be the foundations. If you truly feel as if your 5AR enzyme is down regulated, than maybe moderate high quality DHT supplementation would be advantagous.
 

Jsaute21

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Sep 3, 2016
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Sorry if I came accross as a know-it-all for my first posts on this board, I should keep an open-minded attitude and keep questioning everything I "know", no matter how surprising a practice first appears to be.

For my personal case, laying off gluten and eating a diet that is richer in protein and lower in carbs has me feeling a lot more energetic and mentally clear.
I used to have brain fog, and that typical after-meal lethargy.

When it comes to hormone, what I've learnt and what I've experimented lead me to think that any exogenous introduction will dictate that your body downregulate by so much.
In the case of DHT, we know that it exerts a positive feedback loop on the 5AR enzyme, but the downregulation will come at the testosterone level.
Also, I don't know which amount will lower your estrogens to the point you feel it, but I definitely felt it.

It's good to go by how you feel when experimenting, also remember to get blood drawn at some point to confirm your feeling

I am glad you feel good, i would just warn you to not keep carbs too low if you are active & strength train. We have all experienced the low carb euphoria and it is very temporary.
 

Risingfire

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May 10, 2016
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Sorry if I came accross as a know-it-all for my first posts on this board, I should keep an open-minded attitude and keep questioning everything I "know", no matter how surprising a practice first appears to be.

For my personal case, laying off gluten and eating a diet that is richer in protein and lower in carbs has me feeling a lot more energetic and mentally clear.
I used to have brain fog, and that typical after-meal lethargy.

When it comes to hormone, what I've learnt and what I've experimented lead me to think that any exogenous introduction will dictate that your body downregulate by so much.
In the case of DHT, we know that it exerts a positive feedback loop on the 5AR enzyme, but the downregulation will come at the testosterone level.
Also, I don't know which amount will lower your estrogens to the point you feel it, but I definitely felt it.

It's good to go by how you feel when experimenting, also remember to get blood drawn at some point to confirm your feeling

I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm just asking. I've taken keto DHT and never experienced a drop. Or it wasn't noticeable.

You're theory of downregulation intrigues me. I'm going to look into this.
 
OP
cyclops

cyclops

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No longer waking up with morning wood and low mood. You would probably go from super horny to no interest in sex. Or atleast you should

If that were to happen do you think stopping supplementation would resolve the issue? or is it a more serious issue?
 

Madato

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Sep 20, 2017
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If that were to happen do you think stopping supplementation would resolve the issue? or is it a more serious issue?

Why are you supplementing DHT in the first place?
Did you get blood done to confirm it was low?
Do you have clinical symptoms of low DHT?
 
OP
cyclops

cyclops

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u supplementing DHT in the first place?
Did you get blood done to confirm it was low?
Do you have clinical symptoms of low DHT?

Hoping for improved well-being and overall health/vitality. I read that Ray Peat said around 3mgs is safe and even safer then DHEA. Haidut is selling the 11-keto. Im thinking its an ok thing to try out.
 

Constatine

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Good questions and i would estimate you will get different answers from different people on this. I think after the age of 24 or 25, your age should be irrelevant if you are thinking about using these products. What i mean by that is there are 60 year old men with more favorable androgen profiles and genetics than 30 year olds. Not many, but there are cases where this is true. It all depends on how you are feeling. I was deathly afraid of trying any of Haidut's "steroids" until i decided to, and not one negative side effect occurred. My metabolism is still on its way to recovery but i am a fairly healthy guy and experienced no "shutdown" or anything severe. I think i have driven my cortisol too low a couple of times, but nothing long term detrimental. Haidut has posted many studies that generally prove a positive feedback loop from conservative administration.

I would recommend using androsterone in moderate doses for an androgenic boost a couple of days a week. You will feel leaner, stronger, calmer etc. I barely notice the difference on days i do take it and days that i don't. Unless using in unphysilogical doses, there seems to be really no harm in experimenting with these "Steroids." I also recommend taking breaks just for peace of mind. An old member, natedawggOut of the ones i have experimented with I would rank them as follows:
  • androsterone
  • kdht
  • tyromax
  • dhea
  • Preg (truly don't notice a difference besides getting tired)
  • 5adhp
You are using the new non-DMSO versions of androsterone and 11-keto-DHT correct?
 

ddjd

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There have been quite a bit of posts on this topic and even quotes from RP saying that yes it's safe.

Has anyone had positive effects from proviron? No shutdown, etc.
is real dht the same as andractim?
 

Madato

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Andractim is the only bio-identical dht I know of.

And they currently discontinued the production of Andractim as the manfacturer can’t seem to have access to raws anymore, for the foresseeable future
 

Santosh

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masteron wiped the floor with DHT in a head to head.

Scotty, I'm interested in your experience with Masteron, as I don't want to use testosterone anymore and have a bunch of Masteron powder lying around.

Did you use it on its own or with testosterone ?
If on its own, no low e2 effects ?
Could you describe what you felt on it ?
 

blackface

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Scotty, I'm interested in your experience with Masteron, as I don't want to use testosterone anymore and have a bunch of Masteron powder lying around.

Did you use it on its own or with testosterone ?
If on its own, no low e2 effects ?
Could you describe what you felt on it ?
What benefits do you think the masteron could have in comparison to DHT? Also you think it could be dissolved in enthanol and imp?
 

ScottyVP

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Scotty, I'm interested in your experience with Masteron, as I don't want to use testosterone anymore and have a bunch of Masteron powder lying around.

Did you use it on its own or with testosterone ?
If on its own, no low e2 effects ?
Could you describe what you felt on it ?
I usually teamed it with Trenbolone and some testosterone for power sports so I was mainly concerned with the strength gains, however maintaining hard lean tissue with masteron was easy during a cut and I tended to lean out on it anyway. It seemed combine with Tren very very well, what it was exactly adding to the mix is hard to tell and difficult to tell how I felt as tren eventually makes you feel like ***t anyway. I would appear low e2 but never bothered testing conventionally (I had access to a lab back then but generally looked harder at the recovery than the cycle)
What benefits do you think the masteron could have in comparison to DHT? Also you think it could be dissolved in enthanol and imp?
It's quite a different beast to DHT in that it seems more useful for building tissue, staying lean etc I don't really think DHT is useful in that regard. DHT would be more of a small dose for some androgens rather that the big dose you'd want for masterone, I think is dissolves in ethanol but I used it subq
 

Santosh

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I usually teamed it with Trenbolone and some testosterone for power sports so I was mainly concerned with the strength gains, however maintaining hard lean tissue with masteron was easy during a cut and I tended to lean out on it anyway. It seemed combine with Tren very very well, what it was exactly adding to the mix is hard to tell and difficult to tell how I felt as tren eventually makes you feel like ***t anyway. I would appear low e2 but never bothered testing conventionally (I had access to a lab back then but generally looked harder at the recovery than the cycle)

It's quite a different beast to DHT in that it seems more useful for building tissue, staying lean etc I don't really think DHT is useful in that regard. DHT would be more of a small dose for some androgens rather that the big dose you'd want for masterone, I think is dissolves in ethanol but I used it subq

Thank you very much.

Both DHT and Masteron are very poorly soluble in ethanol, you need benzyl alcohol for those.

I had a good mental boost from transdermal DHT, but nothing muscle wise indeed.

I'm hoping the Masteron will give me the mental benefits and keep me anabolic with much less lethargy and bloat than testosterone.
 

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