DHT Vs Testosterone Safety

[Risingfire]

Madato looks like you got some splaining to do.

 

[Madato]

I've already shared my views on the topic.

I think this forum has some good and interesting ideas for global health, and I was initially interested in DHT related topics.

I'm more than willing to see bloodwork on someone getting their DHT levels boosted through low dose DHT without shutdown.

Other ideas on this forum are totally farfetched: recommending milk, sugar, when they are two poisons and the main culprits in diabetes, artherosclerosis, and cancer.
Why would anyone advocate them? They have no place in the global picture of sane health.

 

[Jsaute21]

I've already shared my views on the topic.

I think this forum has some good and interesting ideas for global health, and I was initially interested in DHT related topics.

I'm more than willing to see bloodwork on someone getting their DHT levels boosted through low dose DHT without shutdown.

Other ideas on this forum are totally farfetched: recommending milk, sugar, when they are two poisons and the main culprits in diabetes, artherosclerosis, and cancer.
Why would anyone advocate them? They have no place in the global picture of sane health.

Yeah, with all due respect your perspective provides no reasoning behind your views. Prove (much like Ray Peat often does when he makes claims) that milk & sugar cause diabetes, artherosclerosis and cancer. Most people on here have dramatically improved their health when consuming fruits, milk & sugar.

 

[Dante]

Other ideas on this forum are totally farfetched: recommending milk, sugar, when they are two poisons and the main culprits in diabetes, artherosclerosis, and cancer.
Why would anyone advocate them? They have no place in the global picture of sane health.

please read the articles
http://raypeat.com/articles/

 

[cyclops]

I've already shared my views on the topic.

I think this forum has some good and interesting ideas for global health, and I was initially interested in DHT related topics.

I'm more than willing to see bloodwork on someone getting their DHT levels boosted through low dose DHT without shutdown.

Other ideas on this forum are totally farfetched: recommending milk, sugar, when they are two poisons and the main culprits in diabetes, artherosclerosis, and cancer.
Why would anyone advocate them? They have no place in the global picture of sane health.

Well, wouldn't you have to read all of Ray Peat's work and see learn why he does recommend these foods and then dispute his reasons. Tell us exactly why he is wrong. Lots of smart people here. If you are right you will convert them.

 

[Risingfire]

I've already shared my views on the topic.

I think this forum has some good and interesting ideas for global health, and I was initially interested in DHT related topics.

I'm more than willing to see bloodwork on someone getting their DHT levels boosted through low dose DHT without shutdown.

Other ideas on this forum are totally farfetched: recommending milk, sugar, when they are two poisons and the main culprits in diabetes, artherosclerosis, and cancer.
Why would anyone advocate them? They have no place in the global picture of sane health.

Wtf is global health?DHT and other testosterone metabolites are discouraged on a global level.

Can you explain why you took three different esters of DHT? And a ridiculous amount?

Can you explain how suppression causes estrogenic symptoms? Loss of libido isn't necessarily estrogenic. DHT is highly anti-estrogenic and doesn't convert to estrogen.

I suggest you look up the difference between PUFA and sugar. Most are in sweets and need to be differentiated.

 

[ScottyVP]

I felt better when on DHT, there's a certain euphoric-indestructible feeling when on it, for me at least. However, this was large, daft, doses that would undoubtedly cause issues somewhere along the line. Masteron/drostranolone was actually better than DHT as it felt more 'even/stable' but again I really doubt you can take any without repercussions.

My gut feeling is that DHT and testosterone is best left to cycling steroids like an athlete would (fine if you wish to do such things) and achieving an optimal hormone balance would be more easily achieved via indirect actions such as thyroid without directly taking the steroid hormones

 

[cyclops]

I felt better when on DHT, there's a certain euphoric-indestructible feeling when on it, for me at least. However, this was large, daft, doses that would undoubtedly cause issues somewhere along the line. Masteron/drostranolone was actually better than DHT as it felt more 'even/stable' but again I really doubt you can take any without repercussions.

My gut feeling is that DHT and testosterone is best left to cycling steroids like an athlete would (fine if you wish to do such things) and achieving an optimal hormone balance would be more easily achieved via indirect actions such as thyroid without directly taking the steroid hormones

Exactly how large were these daft doses?

 

[cyclops]

I felt better when on DHT, there's a certain euphoric-indestructible feeling when on it, for me at least.

This is my desire. That "alpha" feeling. How much DHT to get that?

 

[ScottyVP]

Exactly how large were these daft doses?

I honestly can't remember, I'm guessing somewhere around 50-100mg a day but I was often something else very androgenic such as halotestin. I didn't use it extensively as masteron wiped the floor with DHT in a head to head.

 

[Madato]

Wtf is global health?DHT and other testosterone metabolites are discouraged on a global level.

Can you explain why you took three different esters of DHT? And a ridiculous amount?

Can you explain how suppression causes estrogenic symptoms? Loss of libido isn't necessarily estrogenic. DHT is highly anti-estrogenic and doesn't convert to estrogen.

I suggest you look up the difference between PUFA and sugar. Most are in sweets and need to be differentiated.

Where did I say that suppression causes estrogenic symptoms?

I said the exact opposite: the amount of DHT I took crashed my E2 (achy joints, loss of libido and loss of subcutaneous water).

When it comes to sugar, it's an easy one: people following a paleo diet consisting of low sugar high protein and moderate MUFA almost always get cured from unexplained auto-immune diseases and modern diseases such as diabetes and artherosclerosis. Gluten is also to blame in case you wondered.

 

[Jsaute21]

Where did I say that suppression causes estrogenic symptoms?

I said the exact opposite: the amount of DHT I took crashed my E2 (achy joints, loss of libido and loss of subcutaneous water).

When it comes to sugar, it's an easy one: people following a paleo diet consisting of low sugar high protein and moderate MUFA almost always get cured from unexplained auto-immune diseases and modern diseases such as diabetes and artherosclerosis. Gluten is also to blame in case you wondered.

Thanks for clarifying, Dr Kevorkian.

 

[cyclops]

When it comes to sugar, it's an easy one: people following a paleo diet consisting of low sugar high protein and moderate MUFA almost always get cured from unexplained auto-immune diseases and modern diseases such as diabetes and artherosclerosis. Gluten is also to blame in case you wondered.

Every diet ever created claims to cure the people of all their ails and has people who will testify that it did. There are people here who paleo caused many problems for. Many of them did well on paleo at first too.

 

[cyclops]

So what's the deal guys, is it safe to use around 3 mgs of DHT a day if it makes the person feel good?

 

[Jsaute21]

So what's the deal guys, is it safe to use around 3 mgs of DHT a day if it makes the person feel good?

Think, Perceive, Act. Part of healing and improving DHT comes from making your own decisions and trusting yourself. Not trying to be harsh but generally if something "makes you feel good" than it is improving the way your body functions. Eating Low carb for an extended period of time probably has harsher consequences than experimenting with a high quality compound for a month or so.

 

[Risingfire]

Where did I say that suppression causes estrogenic symptoms?

I said the exact opposite: the amount of DHT I took crashed my E2 (achy joints, loss of libido and loss of subcutaneous water).

When it comes to sugar, it's an easy one: people following a paleo diet consisting of low sugar high protein and moderate MUFA almost always get cured from unexplained auto-immune diseases and modern diseases such as diabetes and artherosclerosis. Gluten is also to blame in case you wondered.

I obviously misread your statement on symptoms.

You still didn't explain why took so much DHT. You offer no proof why supplementing a small amount will cause suppression.

FYI, just about everyone here has done paleo. We know about lack of energy for doing it too long. Saying paleo heals artherosclerosis is absolutely nuts. Are you a doctor? How do you explain low heart disease among the Japanese(low fat) vs high heart disease in the American diet?

 

[Risingfire]

So what's the deal guys, is it safe to use around 3 mgs of DHT a day if it makes the person feel good?

It probably is but I think it's in your best interest to build up to it. Start with 1mg for a few days, then do 2 mgs, then 3. If you notice suppression and less morning wood, then there's your answer.

 

[cyclops]

Think, Perceive, Act. Part of healing and improving DHT comes from making your own decisions and trusting yourself. Not trying to be harsh but generally if something "makes you feel good" than it is improving the way your body functions. Eating Low carb for an extended period of time probably has harsher consequences than experimenting with a high quality compound for a month or so.

Is Think. Perceive. Act. really the right process for everyone though? What about stupid people or uneducated or misinformed people? Ray Peat would be able to make better decisions then me. And many people on this forum because they are smarter and have better information then me. Maybe they can see where some information is biased or incorrect where I cannot.

Also I thought "if something makes you feel good" it does NOT necessarily mean it is good. People like the cocaine example or you could be running on stress hormones, etc.

I wouldn't want someone to take DHT because it makes them feel good but its doing damage to them somehow. What should someone look out for if they do decide to take it?

 

[cyclops]

If you notice suppression and less morning wood, then there's your answer.

What are the signs of suppression?

 

[Madato]

Sorry if I came accross as a know-it-all for my first posts on this board, I should keep an open-minded attitude and keep questioning everything I "know", no matter how surprising a practice first appears to be.

For my personal case, laying off gluten and eating a diet that is richer in protein and lower in carbs has me feeling a lot more energetic and mentally clear.
I used to have brain fog, and that typical after-meal lethargy.

When it comes to hormone, what I've learnt and what I've experimented lead me to think that any exogenous introduction will dictate that your body downregulate by so much.
In the case of DHT, we know that it exerts a positive feedback loop on the 5AR enzyme, but the downregulation will come at the testosterone level.
Also, I don't know which amount will lower your estrogens to the point you feel it, but I definitely felt it.

It's good to go by how you feel when experimenting, also remember to get blood drawn at some point to confirm your feeling