DHT Lowers Cortisol, Estrogen And Is Neuroprotective

[TubZy]

I have used pretty much every DHT substance. Unfortunately, synthetic DHT derivatives will give mild suppression over time in my experience. Lower dose proviron is very very mild though and will definitely produce some mild hardening/cortisol lowering results if you have some muscle already.

I switched to Haidut's stuff and honestly I feel way better on natural DHT derivatives. Sometimes masteron, proviron etc. can give me some pretty bad aggression (good for the gym though).

 

[Wagner83]

Did your rat notice suppression from 11-keto or androsterone? What dose did you apply on it?

 

[A.R]

DHT, both in its bioidentical form and "synthetic" or derivative forms (eg Proviron), seems to be a potent aromatase inhibitor. It also lowers cortisol levels:

Dihydrotestosterone differentially modulates the cortisol response of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis in male and female rhesus macaques, a... - PubMed - NCBI

It is androgenic, and if I understand correctly even the derivative form Proviron is safe to take orally (it's not as harsh on the liver as other androgenic steroids, like testosterone).

It appears to be neuroprotective too:

Androgen cell signaling pathways involved in neuroprotective actions

Given all these things, why don't Peatarians - people on this forum - use DHT?

Especially for people who have issues with progesterone or pregnenolone.

Coffee is good because it raises DHT.... DHEA is good because it has androgenic activity like DHT... Why not go straight to DHT?

So, anyone who has used it, and can share their experience?

And as for obtaining DHT, can someone suggest how to go about this?

This thread might be of interest to you

Who Has Used Or Is Using DHT?

I think the user A Dosko posts a link to a source

Queue AAS.

There's more than just AAS used there

 

[TubZy]

Did your rat notice suppression from 11-keto or androsterone? What dose did you apply on it?

I don't go over 5mg of each as haidut's suggestion. And haven't noticed any signs of suppression.

 

[Wagner83]

Excellent! Any reason why you stopped the 11-keto on your rat ?

 

[dookie]

This thread might be of interest to you

Who Has Used Or Is Using DHT?

I think the user A Dosko posts a link to a source



There's more than just AAS used there

I made that thread too :)

 

[humpty-dumpty]

gelatin raises DHT by increasing 5AR.. haidut posted it somewhere, search youll find it

Yikes I just started taking gelatin for my old female bones, do you mean I could go bald now LOL

 

[TubZy]

Excellent! Any reason why you stopped the 11-keto on your rat ?

I found out I'm allergic to dmso. =( so I stopped the dmso containing supps for the time being..unfortunately

 

[Wagner83]

Weird I never heard of such an allergy. That's quite unfortunate. If you think rashes mean allergies my guess would be it's the almost pure dmso + ethanol irritating the skin, also garlic breath is a common reported side effect among users .

 

[TubZy]

Weird I never heard of such an allergy. That's quite unfortunate. If you think rashes mean allergies my guess would be it's the almost pure dmso + ethanol irritating the skin, also garlic breath is a common reported side effect among users .

Yeah, I'm actually pretty mad about it, sucks. I really noticed it when I started using some of the supplements orally, which had dmso in it. It made the reaction 20x worse, which confirmed dmso was the culprit. I did get some minor irritation topically too though.

 

[Nick Ireland]

I have used both proviron oral and andractim gel extensively, both prescribed by my doc.

The gel works. You can feel the cortisol lowering as a wave of calm kicks in within ten minutes max. It lasts a good few hours. A pea sized dab about three times a day renders good results. The skin gets noticeably thicker and your muscles fill out. After a few months a gentle, progressive fat loss does kick in. But be prepared for an overall initial weight gain as the body uses the DHT to go repair crazy - you could be talking about decades of damage needing fixed. You feel happier, more resilient and more outgoing. You think faster and are less emotional. Andractim didn't shut me down at all, in fact my boys got bigger. My gums got better. I needed less sleep but I slept all night without constant awakenings.

Proviron feels different, The cortisol does lower, but there is an edgy stimulant kick of the nervous system - no surprises as this is how anabolics increase muscle size via nerve stimulus. These orals work best for me under the tongue. Proviron seems to share a lot of characteristics with oral steroids which are highly anabolic but not so androgenic, and which will not convert to estrogen eg oxandrolone or stanozolol. The latter is well known for tanking cortisol, in some cases so much that users report sleepiness and lethargy soon after consumption,

Sorry, but no major vascularity changes with the gel. As someone who has lifted weights all their adult life, vascularity to me is a a sign of stressed physiology, the vascular system strraining to meet demands of energy and repair - which when you are younger you can cope with so much better. The nerve stim steroids will increase vascularity, so it does happen to some extent with proviron.

Andractim will give you more strength. I mean amazing strength gains in a few weeks and recovery times are nearly halved. It also appears to increase metabolic rate or efficiency. You feel warmer on it and I found myself having to wear less clothes in colder weather. So for many guys, I have to ask, is your problem at the top of the steroid tree with thyroid OR near the end of the branch with DHT? Just think how much environmental and edible ***t there is out there damaging 5AR production.

Andractim completely removed two moles from my skin on direct application, one which I had for 35 years. They just got darker, shrivelled up and came off like an old scab from a cut. So if Ray says DHEA can remove moles, it looks like it is the DHT derivative of that which works.

No hair loss. In fact my hair is better with andractim. Also, I didn't get more body hair - probably because of the block on estrogen it provides and Ray blames estrogen for secondary masculinising characteristics.

DHT derivatives are so much better than intermediate hormones in my experience - with the exception of progesterone. Combined with NDT they can be incredible - sex drive through the roof, energy, great mood. As an anti anxiety and anti depressant in it's own right, andractim is remarkable. Most likely via allpgnenolone pathways. I never experienced aggression on it but it does give a smaller bull**** threshold lol.

I know very recently of a 55 year old male complaining of anxiety and depression and lower energy. Testosterone tested an incredible 1200 at top of range, e2 at an unconcerning 30, BUT DHT was rock bottom. The T was so high because it wasn't converting to DHT. The docs did not pick up on this. In fact they thought a DHT test was 'exotic.' The dude started andractim gel. Within 48 hours his mood rocketed. Laughing, chatting, wanting to get out and about. He is about to do bloods again soon, My guess is the T will be lower and of courses DHT higher. The great thing about DHT is that it encourages your system to make more 5AR. BTW, this dude was on unsaturated oils all his life - likely culprit?

I have used prescribed testosterone jabs and gel. They were a disaster. For guys especially - find your problem in the steroid tree, isolate and fix it. I know that sounds simple and it isn't, but it is a goal worth pursuing. DHEA often cascaded in all the wrong directions for me. T did the same. But DHT fixed so much and I wish I had found it at the start. Another lesson to be learned is this - give something time to work. That's how long it takes to repair the damage fat makes you feel like crap.

 

[TheHound]

I have used both proviron oral and andractim gel extensively, both prescribed by my doc.

The gel works. You can feel the cortisol lowering as a wave of calm kicks in within ten minutes max. It lasts a good few hours, A pea sized dab about three times a day renders good results, The skin gets noticeably thicker and your muscles do fill out. After a few months a gentle, progressive fat loss does kick in. But be prepared for an overall initial weight gain as the body uses the DHT to go repair crazy - you could be talking about decades of damage needing fixed. You feel happier, more resilient and more outgoing. You think faster and are less emotional. Andractim didn't shut me down at all, in fact my boys got bigger. My gums got better. I needed less sleep but I slept all night without constant awakenings.

Proviron feels different, The cortisol does lower, but there is an edgy stimulant kick of the nervous system - no surprises as this is how anabolics increase muscle size via nerve stimulus, These orals work best for me under the tongue. Proviron seems to share a lot of characteristics with oral steroids which are highly anabolic but not so androgenic, and which will not convert to estrogen eg oxandrolone or stanozolol. The latter is well known for tanking cortisol, in some cases so much that users report sleepiness and lethargy soon after consumption,

Sorry, but no major vascularity changes with the gel. As someone who has lifted weights all their adult life, vascularity to me is a a sign of stressed physiology, the vascular system strraining to meet demands of energy and repair - which when you are younger you can cope with so much better. The nerve stim steroids will increase vascularity, so it does happen to some extent with proviron,

Andrwctim will give you more strength, I mean amazing strength gains in a few weeks and recovery times are nearly halved, It also appears to increase metabolic rate or efficiency. You feel warmer on it no I found myself having to wear less clothes in colder weather. So for many guys, I have to ask, is your problem at the top of the steroid tree with thyroid OR near the end of the branch with DHT? Just think how much environmental and edible ***t there is out there damaging 5AR production.

Andractim completely removed two moles from my skin on direct application, one which I had for 35 years. They just got darker, shrivelled up and came off like an old scab from a cut. So if Ray says DHEA can remove moles, it looks like it is the DHT derivative of that which works.

No hair loss. In fact my hair is better with andractim. Also, I didn't get more body hair - probably because of the block on estrogen it provides and Ray blames estrogen for secondary masculinising characteristics.

DHT derivatives are so much better than intermediate hormones in my experience - with the exception of progesterone, Combined with NDT they can be incredible - sex drive through the roof, energy, great mood. As an anti anxiety and anti depressant in it's own right, andractim is remarkable. Most likely via allpgnenolone pathways. I never experienced aggression on it but it does give a smaller bull**** threshold lol.

I know very recently of a 55 year old male complaining of anxiety and depression and lower energy, Testosterone tested an incredible 1200 at top of range, e2 at an unconcerning 30, BUT DHT was rock bottom. The T was so high because it wasn't converting to DHT, The docs did not pick up on this. In fact they thought a DHT test was 'exotic.' The dude started andractim gel. Within 48 hours his mood rocketed. Laughing, chatting, wanting to get out and about. He is about to do bloods again soon, My guess is the T will be lower and of courses DHT higher. The great thing about DHT is that it encourages your system to make more 5AR. BTW, this dude was on unsaturated oils all his life - likely culprit?

I have used prescribed testosterone jabs and gel, They were a disaster. For guys especially - find your problem in the steroid tree, isolate and fix it. I know that sounds simple and it isn't, but it is a goal worth pursuing. DHEA cascaded in all the wrong directions for me. T did the same, But DHT fixed so much and I wish I had found it at the start,

what about androsterone?

 

[Wagner83]

Excellent reviews thanks!
Since dht stimulates its own synthesis did you still feet better off it compared to before using it? Has it helped restore a kind of balance?

 

[TubZy]

I have used both proviron oral and andractim gel extensively, both prescribed by my doc.

The gel works. You can feel the cortisol lowering as a wave of calm kicks in within ten minutes max. It lasts a good few hours. A pea sized dab about three times a day renders good results. The skin gets noticeably thicker and your muscles fill out. After a few months a gentle, progressive fat loss does kick in. But be prepared for an overall initial weight gain as the body uses the DHT to go repair crazy - you could be talking about decades of damage needing fixed. You feel happier, more resilient and more outgoing. You think faster and are less emotional. Andractim didn't shut me down at all, in fact my boys got bigger. My gums got better. I needed less sleep but I slept all night without constant awakenings.

Proviron feels different, The cortisol does lower, but there is an edgy stimulant kick of the nervous system - no surprises as this is how anabolics increase muscle size via nerve stimulus. These orals work best for me under the tongue. Proviron seems to share a lot of characteristics with oral steroids which are highly anabolic but not so androgenic, and which will not convert to estrogen eg oxandrolone or stanozolol. The latter is well known for tanking cortisol, in some cases so much that users report sleepiness and lethargy soon after consumption,

Sorry, but no major vascularity changes with the gel. As someone who has lifted weights all their adult life, vascularity to me is a a sign of stressed physiology, the vascular system strraining to meet demands of energy and repair - which when you are younger you can cope with so much better. The nerve stim steroids will increase vascularity, so it does happen to some extent with proviron.

Andractim will give you more strength. I mean amazing strength gains in a few weeks and recovery times are nearly halved. It also appears to increase metabolic rate or efficiency. You feel warmer on it and I found myself having to wear less clothes in colder weather. So for many guys, I have to ask, is your problem at the top of the steroid tree with thyroid OR near the end of the branch with DHT? Just think how much environmental and edible ***t there is out there damaging 5AR production.

Andractim completely removed two moles from my skin on direct application, one which I had for 35 years. They just got darker, shrivelled up and came off like an old scab from a cut. So if Ray says DHEA can remove moles, it looks like it is the DHT derivative of that which works.

No hair loss. In fact my hair is better with andractim. Also, I didn't get more body hair - probably because of the block on estrogen it provides and Ray blames estrogen for secondary masculinising characteristics.

DHT derivatives are so much better than intermediate hormones in my experience - with the exception of progesterone. Combined with NDT they can be incredible - sex drive through the roof, energy, great mood. As an anti anxiety and anti depressant in it's own right, andractim is remarkable. Most likely via allpgnenolone pathways. I never experienced aggression on it but it does give a smaller bull**** threshold lol.

I know very recently of a 55 year old male complaining of anxiety and depression and lower energy. Testosterone tested an incredible 1200 at top of range, e2 at an unconcerning 30, BUT DHT was rock bottom. The T was so high because it wasn't converting to DHT. The docs did not pick up on this. In fact they thought a DHT test was 'exotic.' The dude started andractim gel. Within 48 hours his mood rocketed. Laughing, chatting, wanting to get out and about. He is about to do bloods again soon, My guess is the T will be lower and of courses DHT higher. The great thing about DHT is that it encourages your system to make more 5AR. BTW, this dude was on unsaturated oils all his life - likely culprit?

I have used prescribed testosterone jabs and gel. They were a disaster. For guys especially - find your problem in the steroid tree, isolate and fix it. I know that sounds simple and it isn't, but it is a goal worth pursuing. DHEA often cascaded in all the wrong directions for me. T did the same. But DHT fixed so much and I wish I had found it at the start. Another lesson to be learned is this - give something time to work. That's how long it takes to repair the damage fat makes you feel like crap.

You said you tried DHEA but what about pregnenolone only? A lot of people can't handle DHEA by itself and get bad results but others like myself can handle preg just fine. Even preg plus a very small amount of DHEA orally gives me DHT like effects. If I take anything over 5mg of DHEA by itself I don't feel right.

 

[Rand56]

If I take anything over 5mg of DHEA by itself I don't feel right.

Ditto, but with me, I don't feel right going as high as 5mg's.

 

[TubZy]

Ditto, but with me, I don't feel right going as high as 5mg's.

100-150mg of pregnenolone is actually fine for me. But I did notice a small increase in androgenic symptoms by adding in DHEA at 5mgs (or less). DHEA is way harder to get precise but pregnenolone alone gives me tremendous results.

 

[Wagner83]

You said you tried DHEA but what about pregnenolone only? A lot of people can't handle DHEA by itself and get bad results but others like myself can handle preg just fine. Even preg plus a very small amount of DHEA orally gives me DHT like effects. If I take anything over 5mg of DHEA by itself I don't feel right.

I know you experimented with dht derivatives themselves so this is very interesting, how would you compare this pregnenolone dose with things like proviron/masteron and others?

 

[Nick Ireland]

Preg didn't really work our for me and I really wanted it to. I felt wired the longer I went on, very similar to an experience with androstenedione back in the days when it was the new kid in the shop. So what's happening? A pathway blocked by nutrient deficiency, toxicity damage or genetics? I don't know. What I do know is I eventually decided to bypass the steps and went straight to end product DHT. Like I said, it works for me and it takes time to really appreciate the benefits. It doesn't require big doses either, unless some prefer to preload. It didn't shut me down. If anything it improved my own production,
I've talked about this before, but when you add in a beneficial androgen the body appears to fight back for a period - like it is so used to a negative steroidal default it doesn't want to change for the better so easily. I found this out a few years back when using Arimidex. Vitamin A seems to help with this resistance in my case. I get the distinct feeling prolactin production can be quite temperamental during the transition stress to better health and Retinol can be superb in that respect 7000 to 21000 iu per day as and when.
As for derivatives, and that isn't my first choice, I would point out that tier one pro athletes across the sport spectrum are not choosing Primobolan for the hell of it, It remains a remarkable androgen molecule capable of unique , and is peer comparatively safe in my opinion, physiological effects. A single crude study showed it to be not that effective as HRT in older males but that study took no stock of progesterone levels. I believe personally, that provided progesterone is sufficient, the combo of both (DHT) leaves the default HRT choice of aromatising testosterone wanton. Isn't this what Ray prefers? Good levels of progesterone and DHT? Just my thoughts and there is plenty of quality input from various posters on this thread.

 

[TubZy]

I know you experimented with dht derivatives themselves so this is very interesting, how would you compare this pregnenolone dose with things like proviron/masteron and others?

Well finasteride messed me up and preg and dhea restored my libido and sex drive to pre fin levels again (maybe even higher- which I have a pretty drive normally). The thing is I tried preg in the past for a few days and felt worse. I tried it again and after two weeks the effects were dramatically noticeable. I think fin depleted my natural preg levels and adding extra preg for a period of time could have increased them back to normal due to preg's ability to impact a positive feedback loop. I don't want to say "cured" because I don't know how I would feel not taking it and don't really even want to come off as preg is healthy to take long term.

I also had high cholesterol levels so maybe preg freed up some of the cholesterol to make into hormones too.

In comparison to masteron/proviron, preg/dhea is way more natural and not as stimulating. Masteron/proviron are way more stimulating in every aspect (aggression, sex drive etc.), but that isn't necessarily a good thing. Like the effects are the synthetic DHT derivatives are good but not something maybe to be on long term- if you can get the same effects from preg/dhea (plus no worries about natural shutdown).

Plus I'm pretty sure masteron is longer in production from big pharma so I think everything is black market and you risk dealing with impurities. Proviron at higher doses 75mg or more seems to be the sweet spot at least when I used it. You need to have high levels of T though so proviron can work.

 

[Lightbringer]

DHT derivatives are so much better than intermediate hormones in my experience - with the exception of progesterone. Combined with NDT they can be incredible - sex drive through the roof, energy, great mood. As an anti anxiety and anti depressant in it's own right, andractim is remarkable. Most likely via allpgnenolone pathways. I never experienced aggression on it but it does give a smaller bull**** threshold lol.

I had used andractim for a month or so and the first couple of weeks were awesome with effects like you mention above. However things started going downhill after that with the energy/sleep/libido trifecta trending down and irritability increasing. I did some labs to check what was going on and found that while LH/Estradiol were low, it also lowered T below range which made me stop using it. I see that you mentioned Vitamin A above. Is there anything else that you felt kept things on the right track? Also, do you cycle it or use it every day ?