DHT Lowers Cortisol, Estrogen And Is Neuroprotective

dookie

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DHT, both in its bioidentical form and "synthetic" or derivative forms (eg Proviron), seems to be a potent aromatase inhibitor. It also lowers cortisol levels:

"Data show that the high physiological dose of DHT significantly decreased basal CORT in both male and female monkeys irrespective of social status, but reduced CRF-stimulated CORT only in males. "
Dihydrotestosterone differentially modulates the cortisol response of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis in male and female rhesus macaques, a... - PubMed - NCBI

It is androgenic, and if I understand correctly even the derivative form Proviron is safe to take orally (it's not as harsh on the liver as other androgenic steroids, like testosterone).

It appears to be neuroprotective too:

Low serum DHT levels are associated with high brain levels of soluble Aβ." .. "we found that testosterone and DHT significantly reduced cell death induced by all of the apoptotic insults but by none of the non-apoptotic insults "
Androgen cell signaling pathways involved in neuroprotective actions

Given all these things, why don't Peatarians - people on this forum - use DHT?

Especially for people who have issues with progesterone or pregnenolone.

Coffee is good because it raises DHT.... DHEA is good because it has androgenic activity like DHT... Why not go straight to DHT?

So, anyone who has used it, and can share their experience?

And as for obtaining DHT, can someone suggest how to go about this?
 

DaveFoster

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DHEA converts to DHT.

DHT initiates a negative feedback loop and suppresses the HPTA, albeit mildly.
 
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DHEA converts to DHT.

DHT initiates a negative feedback loop and suppresses the HPTA, albeit mildly.

DHEA can also convert to estrogen, DHT cannot (DHT inhibits aromatase).

From what I have read in bodybuilding forums, people claim it doesn't suppress their Hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis (HPG axis)
 

DaveFoster

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DHEA can also convert to estrogen, DHT cannot (DHT inhibits aromatase).

From what I have read in bodybuilding forums, people claim it doesn't suppress their Hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis (HPG axis)
You've heard incorrectly. Exogenous DHT will suppress your HPTA. Excess DHEA may also suppress your HPTA in high doses (100 mg +), but I've heard the opposite from haidut.

Watch out: Proviron IS suppressive (lab results)
 

BobbyDukes

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I don't believe there is a free ride with anything in life. If taking DHT was seriously that amazing for guys, you would see males all over it, clambering over themselves to get their paws on it.

There are things that degrade DHT. Perhaps these 'things' would increase over a period of time. Homeostasis. It's a b****. It would be great to feel a rip roaring androgenic high each day, every day, but you will come down eventually.

Unless I'm wrong, and there are ways of cheating.
 
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dookie

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I don't believe there is a free ride with anything in life. If taking DHT was seriously that amazing for guys, you would see males all over it, clambering over themselves to get their paws on it.

There are things that degrade DHT. Perhaps these 'things' would increase over a period of time. Homeostasis. It's a b*tch. It would be great to feel a rip roaring androgenic high each day, every day, but you will come down eventually.

Unless I'm wrong, and there are ways of cheating.

Doesn't that same philosophy apply to progesterone, pregnenolone, thyroid, etc? If they were so amazing, wouldn't everyone use them? There is no free ride, indeed, and any supplement or med comes with risk of side-effects.

I'm thinking of DHT as a therapeutic option for someone sick, not as a supplement for feeling invincible, etc., In the same way that progesterone/preg shouldn't be viewed as recreational drugs, but rather things to fix a problem.

And they do share many effects, so that someone who doesn't tolerate preg could perhaps use DHT?
 

DaveFoster

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Unless I'm wrong, and there are ways of cheating.
Queue AAS.

dennis-wolf-022.jpg
 
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dookie

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You've heard incorrectly. Exogenous DHT will suppress your HPTA. Excess DHEA may also suppress your HPTA in high doses (100 mg +), but I've heard the opposite from haidut.

Watch out: Proviron IS suppressive (lab results)

I heard mostly claims to the contrary, but OK that post shows it clearly, so maybe it depends on the dose and the form?

But anyway, it might be good to have a suppressed HPTA: Peat doesn't favor pituitary hormones, and in email correspondence, he said it's best for FSH, LH to be low..

Also check this out: a guy with undetectable FSH, undetectable LH, undetectable prolactin (he's using proviron and cabergoline): Very shut down, PLEASE READ
Wasn't there a study where mice without pituitary glands lived very long? :)
 
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dookie

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I might be wrong but isn't it better to take something that will have multiple effects on the body (DHEA) rather than something more narrow like Testosterone/DHT ???

Plus if you want to raise DHT why not take glycine (it will also have a lot of other good effect).

Glycine Strongly Upregulates 5-alpha Reductase (5-ar) Activity

DHEA may have more effects, but lowering cortisol and estrogen are pretty major goals for anyone with a degenerative illness, or for those simply following the Peat health philosophy. If DHT can achieve this, it should rank up there in supplements with aspirin, pregnenolone, etc. as a generally protective substance
 

DaveFoster

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I heard mostly claims to the contrary, but OK that post shows it clearly, so maybe it depends on the dose and the form?

But anyway, it might be good to have a suppressed HPTA: Peat doesn't favor pituitary hormones, and in email correspondence, he said it's best for FSH, LH to be low..
Correct. Higher doses would be far more suppressive than lower doses of say, Proviron.

As for the pituitary hormones, Peat talks about them with regards to aging.
 

BobbyDukes

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Doesn't that same philosophy apply to progesterone, pregnenolone, thyroid, etc? If they were so amazing, wouldn't everyone use them? There is no free ride, indeed, and any supplement or med comes with risk of side-effects.

I'm thinking of DHT as a therapeutic option for someone sick, not as a supplement for feeling invincible, etc., In the same way that progesterone/preg shouldn't be viewed as recreational drugs, but rather things to fix a problem.

And they do share many effects, so that someone who doesn't tolerate preg could perhaps use DHT?

Well the body regulates those other hormones too, that you mention. You can try and cheat the body, trick it, but it will always catch you up. That's my guessing.

The body is constantly being poisoned by an estrogenic/serotonergic environment.

That complicates things further, and is the real problem that most of us face, IMO.

All this is way over my head, though.

Where are all these people taking DHT everyday, reaping the benefits. Ones that don't look like that guy that Dave just posted. BTW, that is how I invisage Dave to look if I were ever to be asked.
 

David Chung

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This is a great thread, but I wanted to make a general observation about steroids.

IMHO, trying to control steroid levels in people, in benign ways, is difficult for two reasons: (1) there is a great variation among individuals when it comes to steroid biochemistry; AND (2) for each individual, a large number of feedback mechanisms for steroid equilibrium drive the body to fight back any changes in steroid levels - there are too many regulatory mechanisms. One consequence of these two factors is that steroid use tend to work for some, and not for others - results are rather unpredictable. Development of gynocomastia, rocketing cholesterol levels, erectile dysfunction, masculinization (lowering of the voice for woman), etc.

In trying to control one's physical condition through drugs/supplements in practical ways, it is easier to deal with reactions at a more fundamental level (e.g., energy metabolism at cellular level). As we deal with biochemical reactions that are older and more common to a larger set of living organisms, we are dealing with interactions that are applicable to a far wider range of population.

Ultimately, steroid levels are related to brain chemistry - involving various neurotransmitters (e.g., dopamine). For example, administration of dopaminergic drugs will increase testosterone levels in males and drive libido (e.g., cabergoline, bromocriptine, nicotine, etc.). Unfortunately, playing with neurotransmitters appears to be a risky proposition - "everything" you are depends on brain functions, and to change those by affecting fundamental communication media of the neurons may have unpredictable, profound consequences. Any case, just some thoughts.
 
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DaveFoster

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This is a great thread, but I wanted to make a general observation about steroids.

IMHO, trying to control steroid levels in people, in benign ways, is difficult for two reasons: (1) there is a great variation among individuals when it comes to steroid biochemistry; AND (2) for each individual, a large number of feedback mechanisms for steroid equilibrium drive the body to fight back any changes in steroid levels - there are too many regulatory mechanisms. One consequence of these two factors is that steroid use tend to work for some, and not for others - results are rather unpredictable. Development of gynocomastia, rocketing cholesterol levels, erectile dysfunction, masculinization (lowering of the voice for woman), etc.
Indeed. The unpredictably should merit gratitude toward the homeostatic nature of the body.

Without homeostasis, we could easily die from raising or lowering various hormones, such as cortisol or estrogen.

The key is to support the metabolic processes; if you do this then you can degrade the positive feedback loops that trigger catabolic and sympathetic reactions.

If you have a glass with half water and half oil, to get more water in the glass you don't need to get a bigger glass. You can just dump out the oil.
 
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dookie

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This is a great thread, but I wanted to make a general observation about steroids.

IMHO, trying to control steroid levels in people, in benign ways, is difficult for two reasons: (1) there is a great variation among individuals when it comes to steroid biochemistry; AND (2) for each individual, a large number of feedback mechanisms for steroid equilibrium drive the body to fight back any changes in steroid levels - there are too many regulatory mechanisms. One consequence of these two factors is that steroid use tend to work for some, and not for others - results are rather unpredictable. Development of gynocomastia, rocketing cholesterol levels, erectile dysfunction, masculinization (lowering of the voice for woman), etc.

In trying to control one's physical condition through drugs/supplements in practical ways, it is easier to deal with reactions at a more fundamental level (e.g., energy metabolism at cellular level). As we deal with biochemical reactions that are older and more common to a larger set of living organisms, we are dealing with interactions that are applicable to a far wider range of population.

DHT would probably be therapeutically appropriate for men, not so much for women.

You make some valid points. But would you say, for example, that it is more appropriate for a sick male to use progesterone - a hormone which lowers androgens - than to use DHT? DHT has some energy metabolism supporting effects, too.

Many people just want to lower an elevated cortisol level, for example, and they search for drugs to achieve this - eg cyproheptadine, theanine, etc. Wouldn't a steroid (DHT) be just as physiological a way to do it as a pharma drug or supplement?


Ultimately, steroid levels are related to brain chemistry - involving various neurotransmitters (e.g., dopamine). For example, administration of dopaminergic drugs will increase testosterone levels in males and drive libido (e.g., cabergoline, bromocriptine, nicotine, etc.). Unfortunately, playing with neurotransmitters appears to be a risky proposition - "everything" you are depends on brain functions, and to change those by affecting fundamental communication media of the neurons may have unpredictable, profound consequences. Any case, just some thoughts.

Not sure what you mean by: " playing with neurotransmitters appears to be a risky proposition"
Everything you do influences neurotransmitters. Drinking coffee, eating aged cheese, eating raw carrot, etc. Bananas and pineapples contains serotonin, and many raw vegetables irritate the bowels and create serotonin. I've noticed major cognitive changes from very simple foods. Even the way you breathe affects your dopamine.
 
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dookie

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I was really curious to hear if forum users on here who have used DHT would share their experience, perhaps there are people out there who have tried both DHT and pregnenolone, progesterone, cyproheptadine, etc. and can give a comparison as to how the different drugs feel compared to each other..
 
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dookie

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I think Peat considers DHT to be protective in a similar way to pregnenolone and progesterone. So it's definitely a "Peat supplement". The question just remains: how do you obtain this stuff, and how do you dose it? Anyone have any clue?
 

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