Dht increases visceral fat in man??

pauljacob

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Mar 9, 2018
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435
One of the interes

One thing that i beleive ur theory may play a part in is front recession more so than back thinning as we see a huge group of men whos temples always recede in fact we see almost all mens temples recede from juvenile to a mature hairline to some degree.


Mutations are basically random. If the mutation results genetic expresison that bnefits the animal and or human to live longer and reproduce more succesfully. These would be superior mutations.
Thank you GH for the explanation, much appreciated. :thumbsup:
 

PurpleHeart

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Jun 5, 2019
Messages
181
I was going to tell you the other day, that I really enjoy your posts. You are the voice of reason, sort of like Chibbs. I will say however, being on DHT 1-2 mg topically, assist in a huge mental stability feeling, and boost in confidence. But I completely agree with you that DHT is make in the stress cascade. According to Dr. Lin at Actionlove.com, during sexual stimulation, Dopamine goes into norepinephrine, then testosterone goes into DHT. On that note, people here talk about using huge dose of caffeine to raise DHT, which means, yeah, get stressed with caffeine to raise DHT.
Thanks, I try as much as possible to keep a neutral perspective, and although I don't always manage to do that, I strongly believe that a neutral perspective is a great vantage point when it comes to observation and examination, I also try to create an opposition to fanaticism which sometimes doesn't come out as I intent.

As far as DHT goes I think that balance is key, it seems to be a delicate hormone so messing around with it too much through artificial means is probably not the smartest choice to make, in my opinion of course.

People who claim that DHT is a trash hormone that they feel absolutely great without, and people who claim that their whole life was destroyed by a single milligram of finasteride are probably the live examples of placebo and nocebo respectively, there is no scientific truth whatsoever in such extreme emotionalisms.
 

Drareg

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Feb 18, 2016
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4,772
I also posted a study of DHT causing dyslipidemia and obesity in mice and it was dismissed by people here who seem to only accept studies and evidence if it supports their own beliefs but if you actually post a study that implies that they might be wrong everyone starts attacking you and proceeds to remind you how all scientists are idiots and part of a conspiracy and how ray peat and his followers know everything under the sun while at the same time no one provides any evidence of restoration achieved with ray peat principles.

There are studies that clearly show that DHT can be dangerous in higher levels, but people here completely disregard it or dismiss it as a bad study.

There is also a study where finasteride administration attenuated heart hypertrophy in mice by lowering DHT in heart tissue but if you post it here a shitstorm is very likely.

There is a study where Testosterone administration in males with low testosterone and high DHT significantly lowered DHT which probably means that DHT shouldn't be high when testosterone levels are at a healthy range but when I talked about it everyone ignored me.

There are countless studies of hyperandrogenism in women being a hallmark of metabolic disaster and no one cares to look at those, but one study was posted by haidut where lean women had slightly higher DHT which any reasonable person can assume is because of lower adipose tissue known to neutralize it and not the other way around, but people here twisted it to draw their own conclusion of DHT being great for women too.

Now about your claims there is actually a lot of studies that show that estrogen and increased aromatase can help lower visceral fat, so I don't know about that.

Healthy young males usually have a T/DHT ratio in favor of testosterone along with high shbg, but people seem to think that lowering shbg and increasing DHT will make them healthier while a high DHT/T ratio and low shbg is a hallmark of old age and metabolic dysfunction.

It's just sad that many people here started adopting cult like behavior and dogma when this forum was supposed to be the opposite of that.

If avoiding PUFA and taking aspirin with sugar and milk and coffee blah.. blah.. solved hair loss, obesity and every disease then all of us who followed ray peats ideas
for years would be super healthy, ripped, hairy, god tier males with wings made out of light and telekinesis, but this is obviously not the case.
Nobody I know of on here takes that amount of DHT, our organism doesn’t have the receptive capacity for it, we currently don’t know how to increase our receptive capacity to these levels. Small amounts are really good, 1 mg can make a positive difference.
We also have to take into account the enzyme 5α-reductase 1,2, and 3 and how they will effected with mega dosages via feedback loops.

Estrogen probably does that by increasing stress hormones in general burning muscle and fat, we see ripped people from excessive exercise also, how long it lasts is another topic.
 

Drareg

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Feb 18, 2016
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Exactly, You can't just claim that thyroid and progesterone will fix everything and that it's lack of those things that causes all problems under the sun, when supplementing those things does absolutely nothing in most cases.

Personally the only thing that I kept from here is to avoid seed oils and excessive PUFA consumption, everything else that I tried changed absolutely nothing,
with the exception of taurine which was the only supplement that actually made a small difference on how I felt.

To be absolutely honest there are people who eat nuts , seeds and peanut butter/tahini all day and still look much better than the advocates of Ray peat.

I mean if Danny roddy which is one of the most loyal followers of Peat's ideas looks emancipated and sicker than the average joe after years of Ray peat dieting, then what is it that anyone here hopes to achieve with this ideas?

There is obviously more to it.
I would recommend reserving judgement on peoples appearances for when you meet them in real life, in saying that I don’t see any issue with Danny Roddy‘s appearance, he looks better than he does in the past.

Nobody has claimed we can turn you into a god tier human while your an adult, perhaps if your mother was Peaty when you were conceived it would be a different outcome.
The magic pill fallacy has been discussed on here before, it creates hope that taking a substance will take responsibility away from you and your actions required to move forward in an extremely difficult authoritarian environment, like the movie limitless, this isn’t reality, as Peat mentioned getting back into a cellular resting state after stress is helpful, stabilizing yourself in a stressful environment can allow you to see the toxicity present and remove yourself if you want to, certain substances can help with this, people always think more potent is the way to go or more novel, some of the best substances I have taken are k2,D3 and calcium, calcium is continually ignored by many people who claim to be "peaty", why would people take T3 without enough calcium in the diet is beyond me.

Many of us choose not to remove ourselves from said systems, some can’t, what we do is use our ongoing understand of cell physiology and the philosophical side to improve our capacity to perceive, think and act more coherently regardless of the environment ,there is no auto pilot for this.
Many people following this forum and reading/listening to Peat have changed their lives, they just don’t post on here, some of us do.
We use the term "peat" to indicate a direction of thinking about reality, some may veer into cultish behavior but it’s a learning curve and differing patterns of thought are part of the process, you can’t undo years of damage in 1 year.
 
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Drareg

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@Hans @Drareg - see my previous post (2-3 posts up) for more info. The forum is not allowing me to edit my post so I can tag you in it. There is also this one, also interventionm study in humans (males) that also showed decreased fat mass AND increased muscle mass.
"...In DXA analysis, lean mass was increased and fat mass was decreased each by 1.0 to 1.5 kg with DHT but not placebo treatment (Appendix Figure 2). We observed similar body composition changes using bioimpedance analysis and derived from skin-fold thickness (data not shown). Muscle strength measured by hand grip dynamometry was increased by DHT for both dominant (P 0.064) and nondominant (P 0.032) hands (Table). No significant change was found in abdominal or hip girth or midarm or midthigh circumference (data not shown)."
I don’t get what people are trying to prove here, many of us have used DHT and observe it’s effects via experience, I can use 1-2 mg and it’s noticeable, I don’t know what to say to people who use over 15mg per day, your receptive capacity needs to be built up.
There is more to discover on 5α-Reductases which could shed more light on it all.
 

PurpleHeart

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Jun 5, 2019
Messages
181
I would recommend reserving judgement on peoples appearances for when you meet them in real life, in saying that I don’t see any issue with Danny Roddy‘s appearance, he looks better than he does in the past.

Nobody has claimed we can turn you into a god tier human while your an adult, perhaps if your mother was Peaty when you were conceived it would be a different outcome.
The magic pill fallacy has been discussed on here before, it creates hope that taking a substance will take responsibility away from you and your actions required to move forward in an extremely difficult authoritarian environment, like the movie limitless, this isn’t reality, as Peat mentioned getting back into a cellular resting state after stress is helpful, stabilizing yourself in a stressful environment can allow you to see the toxicity present and remove yourself if you want to, certain substances can help with this, people always think more potent is the way to go or more novel, some of the best substances I have taken are k2,D3 and calcium, calcium is continually ignored by many people who claim to be "peaty", why would people take T3 without enough calcium in the diet is beyond me.

Many of us choose not to remove ourselves from said systems, some can’t, what we do is use our ongoing understand of cell physiology and the philosophical side to improve our capacity to perceive, think and act more coherently regardless of the environment ,there is no auto pilot for this.
Many people following this forum and reading/listening to Peat have changed their lives, they just don’t post on here, some of us do.
We use the term "peat" to indicate a direction of thinking about reality, some may veer into cultish behavior but it’s a learning curve and differing patterns of thought are part of the process, you can’t undo years of damage in 1 year.
I do not judge anyone's appearance, I am just observing it, and I don't see any major difference between long term PUFA eaters and people who follow "Ray Peat diet" principals strictly for years, for you this might not mean anything but for me it's an important indicator of health and metabolic efficiency.

I understand that there is no magical pill solution, but if a diet supposedly tailored to boost metabolism and reduce stress does almost nothing in 10 years time then personally for me this means that something is amiss, which means that there is much more to learn and experiment with, along with the possibility of some false beliefs.

Personally if I have to have a strict diet for the rest of my life, which takes up time and resources then I expect results, and results have been lackluster at best so far,
of course this is my own experience I am not trying to say that this is the case for everyone, if things work out great for you then great, but I have my own observations and conclusions like everybody else.

Also I disagree about your statement of inability to repair years of damage in one year, one year is plenty of time and I think ways exist to turn everything around in one whole year.

I believe that the significance of following Ray Peats dietary suggestions and their impact on ones biological functions is definitely overestimated especially on this forum, in my experience most things don't make that much of a difference(again this is just my experience.), and personally I am not going to invest 20 years of my life into a restrictive diet just to make a miniscule difference to my health, I'd rather enjoy eating whatever I want within reason while only adopting the things that actually work, and for that I need to differentiate between the things that actually make a difference and the thigs that don't, this is why I am here, and this is what I am trying to figure out, the first step at finding answers is acknowledging that you don't have them.
 

Drareg

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Feb 18, 2016
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I do not judge anyone's appearance, I am just observing it, and I don't see any major difference between long term PUFA eaters and people who follow "Ray Peat diet" principals strictly for years, for you this might not mean anything but for me it's an important indicator of health and metabolic efficiency.

I understand that there is no magical pill solution, but if a diet supposedly tailored to boost metabolism and reduce stress does almost nothing in 10 years time then personally for me this means that something is amiss, which means that there is much more to learn and experiment with, along with the possibility of some false beliefs.

Personally if I have to have a strict diet for the rest of my life, which takes up time and resources then I expect results, and results have been lackluster at best so far,
of course this is my own experience I am not trying to say that this is the case for everyone, if things work out great for you then great, but I have my own observations and conclusions like everybody else.

Also I disagree about your statement of inability to repair years of damage in one year, one year is plenty of time and I think ways exist to turn everything around in one whole year.

I believe that the significance of following Ray Peats dietary suggestions and their impact on ones biological functions is definitely overestimated especially on this forum, in my experience most things don't make that much of a difference(again this is just my experience.), and personally I am not going to invest 20 years of my life into a restrictive diet just to make a miniscule difference to my health, I'd rather enjoy eating whatever I want within reason while only adopting the things that actually work, and for that I need to differentiate between the things that actually make a difference and the thigs that don't, this is why I am here, and this is what I am trying to figure out, the first step at finding answers is acknowledging that you don't have them.
People look different off camera is my point. Very few people in the general public are PUFA free so it’s difficult to compare, I have noticed differences between muse of and others since I started lowering my intake, people in my age group look more aged than me as we approach our late 30’s, we looked similar throughout our 20’s and early 30’s ,my brother is slightly older and I look less aged compared to him at the same age, I have also taken on more career and general life based stress than him, even in sunshine I’m tanning differently compared to the past.

If you have been printing yourself via proteins created from genomic instructions influenced by environment for over 3 decades its difficult to resolve in 1 year.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
495
Exactly, You can't just claim that thyroid and progesterone will fix everything and that it's lack of those things that causes all problems under the sun, when supplementing those things does absolutely nothing in most cases.

Personally the only thing that I kept from here is to avoid seed oils and excessive PUFA consumption, everything else that I tried changed absolutely nothing,
with the exception of taurine which was the only supplement that actually made a small difference on how I felt.

To be absolutely honest there are people who eat nuts , seeds and peanut butter/tahini all day and still look much better than the advocates of Ray peat.

I mean if Danny roddy which is one of the most loyal followers of Peat's ideas looks emancipated and sicker than the average joe after years of Ray peat dieting, then what is it that anyone here hopes to achieve with this ideas?

There is obviously more to it.
If he looks "emancipated" that's a great thing :p:
 

Mauritio

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Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
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What yall make of this study. This is very interesting. Seems to me optimal profile is high T medium to Low DHT


Fat leads to lower androgen levels ,lower androgen levels lead to weight gain ,...


"Adipogenesis and lipid storage in human adipose tissue are inhibited by androgens such as DHT. Inactivation of DHT to 3α-diol is stimulated by glucocorticoids in human preadipocytes."

"Higher Om 5alpha-DHT inactivation rates were found in obese compared with lean men. "
 

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