DHEA Warning - Panic Attacks!

[DaveFoster]

So I'm adjusting to thyroid, and this whole experience could be due to the T4 kicking in and sensitizing my body to adrenaline. However, due to the timing I believe the DHEA caused the symptoms.

I'm taking a lot of progesterone and pregnenolone daily as I adjust to thyroid, and I've been taking less (as in near no) DHEA. Today, I felt depressed and took DHEA and pregnenolone (similar to the Pansterone blend) in DMSO applied to the testicles: first 1 drop, then another. At the first drop, I felt a bit of stimulation, but I started to get estrogenic symptoms (nipple and nerve pain, slight "buzzing" anxiety), and I took some progesterone (not nearly enough.) As I was doing a stressful activity, I took another drop via the same route, and then the anxiety kept building over the next 20 minutes until I was guzzling orange juice and taking l-theanine to stop the panic. I took half a propranolol tablet and called 911; my heart rate was 120 resting. It later dropped to under 100 about 15 minutes later after another dose of progesterone.

Dr. Peat has warned about taking DHEA with low thyroid; be warned! Either have a strong thyroid or be ready to take a lot of progesterone with a small amount of DHEA, or you'll get estrogenic symptoms and experience a near panic attack like I have.

 

[Sucrates]

I developed insane ectopic beats (thousands per day) while using it topically, subsided when I stopped. Could be a confidence of course.

 

[meatbag]

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[Vinero]

In my experience there is a huge difference between taking DHEA orally vs topical.
Oral DHEA gives me irritability, anxiety and so forth, while topical gives me nice mood lift, energy, strength, etc.

 

[milk_lover]

I take ONE drop of pansterone with TWO drops of Andro and I have no issues.. Maybe the andro is taking care of the small amounts of DHEA (1.25 mg) and thus no big issues like yours. I hope you get well soon.

 

[DaveFoster]

I developed insane ectopic beats (thousands per day) while using it topically, subsided when I stopped. Could be a confidence of course.

I just took a look at my EKG, and it does seem to have ectopic beats, although I'm not a cardiologist.

@DaveFoster - Sorry to hear about this situation man, sounds very stressful.

Are you still taking Mirtazapine? I have no idea why but when I took DHEA while I was on that I got ****88 up. Again, no idea why, but just terrible anxiety and irritability when I would take it.

I've been using low dose (like 2.5mg at a time-pansterone orally) and have gotten really good effects the past week; I've been off of Mirtazapine for about 10 months now.

Personally I agree with Peat's view on this and think applying things to the testicles is a bad idea

Also which brand of progesterone are you using?

Yeah; I've been taking 30 mg of mirtazapine for a couple months. Once I up my thyroid dose, I will reevaluate and plan to taper off over next year, reducing by 2.5 mg every month or so.

In my experience there is a huge difference between taking DHEA orally vs topical.
Oral DHEA gives me irritability, anxiety and so forth, while topical gives me nice mood lift, energy, strength, etc.

It was topical; I knew I was in a hypothyroid state, so it was foolish to take it.

I take ONE drop of pansterone with TWO drops of Andro and I have no issues.. Maybe the andro is taking care of the small amounts of DHEA (1.25 mg) and thus no big issues like yours. I hope you get well soon.

Thanks, man. I'd guess the androsterone antagonizes estrogen so strongly that the DHEA becomes much safer. After I took a lot of progesterone, I felt absolute fine within an hour. As I woke up today, I'm still fine.

 

[Dhair]

So I'm adjusting to thyroid, and this whole experience could be due to the T4 kicking in and sensitizing my body to adrenaline. However, due to the timing I believe the DHEA caused the symptoms.

I'm taking a lot of progesterone and pregnenolone daily as I adjust to thyroid, and I've been taking less (as in near no) DHEA. Today, I felt depressed and took DHEA and pregnenolone (similar to the Pansterone blend) in DMSO applied to the testicles: first 1 drop, then another. At the first drop, I felt a bit of stimulation, but I started to get estrogenic symptoms (nipple and nerve pain, slight "buzzing" anxiety), and I took some progesterone (not nearly enough.) As I was doing a stressful activity, I took another drop via the same route, and then the anxiety kept building over the next 20 minutes until I was guzzling orange juice and taking l-theanine to stop the panic. I took half a propranolol tablet and called 911; my heart rate was 120 resting. It later dropped to under 100 about 15 minutes later after another dose of progesterone.

Dr. Peat has warned about taking DHEA with low thyroid; be warned! Either have a strong thyroid or be ready to take a lot of progesterone with a small amount of DHEA, or you'll get estrogenic symptoms and experience a near panic attack like I have.

I find DHEA to be questionable as a supplement in general, but I like it when combined with androgens that don't aromatize.
How much thyroid are you taking and for how long have you been taking it? What kind do you take ?

 

[DaveFoster]

I find DHEA to be questionable as a supplement in general, but I like it when combined with androgens that don't aromatize.
How much thyroid are you taking and for how long have you been taking it? What kind do you take ?

No much at all at the moment; I take around 1/25th of a drop of TyroMix daily, and I'm titrating up the dose little by little each day.

 

[Dhair]

No much at all at the moment; I take around 1/25th of a drop of TyroMix daily, and I'm titrating up the dose little by little each day.

Why such a low dose?
Just a thought, but have you considered that your tendency to be sensitive to things that increase your metabolism might be a sign of higher estrogen in the first place?
I know at one point you were taking very high doses of aspirin, which I personally had great success with a couple years ago. How did that go for you?

 

[DaveFoster]

Why such a low dose?
Just a thought, but have you considered that your tendency to be sensitive to things that increase your metabolism might be a sign of higher estrogen in the first place?
I know at one point you were taking very high doses of aspirin, which I personally had great success with a couple years ago. How did that go for you?

Aspirin is one of the only things that makes me feel genuinely happy. I have fibromyalgia, and it takes a several regular doses of progesterone throughout the day to control my symptoms, and I also have anxiety, hyperactivity, etc. Definitely, I have high estrogen, and I'm taking thyroid because Dr. Peat has said it's the best substance for controlling estrogen. I don't think taking 3 grams of aspirin definitely would be wise.

Even at my minuscule increments of thyroid, I've managed to raise my pulse to 117 at rest due to the adrenaline sensitization.

 

[sladerunner69]

Aspirin is one of the only things that makes me feel genuinely happy. I have fibromyalgia, and it takes a several regular doses of progesterone throughout the day to control my symptoms, and I also have anxiety, hyperactivity, etc. Definitely, I have high estrogen, and I'm taking thyroid because Dr. Peat has said it's the best substance for controlling estrogen. I don't think taking 3 grams of aspirin definitely would be wise.

Even at my minuscule increments of thyroid, I've managed to raise my pulse to 117 at rest due to the adrenaline sensitization.

Hold on, are you saying you are content with a 117 pulse? Before you said you called the emergency line when your pulse was at 120.

BTW Ive had these terrible panic attacks before a few years back, sometimes my resting pulse had gone up to maybe 140 or 150. I was not in good health then thanks to finasteride, and I had used tribulus which made my anxiety double and it seemed to stay that way for some months after I stopped.... Once I became so lightheaded I had thought I would have a heart attack or simply die that night from trying to catch my breath to no avail. I figurred I could call the ambulance and I had already done that on a previous occasion and run up a large medical bill for my mother to deal with and no one was willing to accept that I had serious problems from taking a drug for hairloss. Anyways I actually took some melatonin and it did help. Im not sure what Peat truly thinks about melatonin, I think its a bit of a grey area.

 

[DaveFoster]

Hold on, are you saying you are content with a 117 pulse? Before you said you called the emergency line when your pulse was at 120.

BTW Ive had these terrible panic attacks before a few years back, sometimes my resting pulse had gone up to maybe 140 or 150. I was not in good health then thanks to finasteride, and I had used tribulus which made my anxiety double and it seemed to stay that way for some months after I stopped.... Once I became so lightheaded I had thought I would have a heart attack or simply die that night from trying to catch my breath to no avail. I figurred I could call the ambulance and I had already done that on a previous occasion and run up a large medical bill for my mother to deal with and no one was willing to accept that I had serious problems from taking a drug for hairloss. Anyways I actually took some melatonin and it did help. Im not sure what Peat truly thinks about melatonin, I think its a bit of a grey area.

I wasn't content with a 117 pulse. I kept checking it every 10 minutes, but progesterone took away the anxiety.

I actually took melatonin last night for a high pulse (110+), and it worked really well. Helped me sleep, brought the pulse down to 93. Good stuff. Sorry to hear about fin; that's stuff Satanic. One time I mixed clonidine and cyproheptadine while having estrogen rebound from letrozole cessation, and I depleted my sodium. Good God; I was screaming in the ER like I was possessed. They offered me Valium, and I rejected it because I didn't want to build tolerance (such a dumb thing to do). Over two hours of me screaming and turning on a gurney, and I was so thankful to see the faces of the nurses visit me every twenty minutes. I stumbled to the bathroom and urinated, and then limped back to my cell adjacent to one with a schizophrenic and another with the girl from The Ring.

I try to check my pulse a maximum of once daily. I find I'm much less anxious that way.

 

[sladerunner69]

I wasn't content with a 117 pulse. I kept checking it every 10 minutes, but progesterone took away the anxiety.

I actually took melatonin last night for a high pulse (110+), and it worked really well. Helped me sleep, brought the pulse down to 93. Good stuff. Sorry to hear about fin; that's stuff Satanic. One time I mixed clonidine and cyproheptadine while having estrogen rebound from letrozole cessation, and I depleted my sodium. Good God; I was screaming in the ER like I was possessed. They offered me Valium, and I rejected it because I didn't want to build tolerance (such a dumb thing to do). Over two hours of me screaming and turning on a gurney, and I was so thankful to see the faces of the nurses visit me every twenty minutes. I stumbled to the bathroom and urinated, and then limped back to my cell adjacent to one with a schizophrenic and another with the girl from The Ring.

I try to check my pulse a maximum of once daily. I find I'm much less anxious that way.

Intriguing story. Reminds me somewhat of the time I was sent by the authorities on a "voluntary" stay in the psych ward aka the junky/alcoholic rehabilitation center. In the end I learned the importance of making my bed and taking showers, because they wouldn't let me leave until I proved I habitually performed those tasks without being reminded. Ah the complex standards of modern clinical psychology.

I have no idea what letrozole is though I figure it lowers estrogen intensely. That kind of tolerance progression is why I prefer the basics like coffee, aspirin, and vitamins. I think Peat feels similarly. Although I ahve had good results on pregnenlone and prog, or even small small amounts of dhea.

 

[Wagner83]

Do you take magnesium? Wouldn't it help with fibromyalgia among other things? nikolabeacon and a few others posted about calcium competing with magnesium, so perhaps it's one reason the high dairy diet can lead to issues for some.

 

[milk_lover]

I just took a look at my EKG, and it does seem to have ectopic beats, although I'm not a cardiologist.

Yeah; I've been taking 30 mg of mirtazapine for a couple months. Once I up my thyroid dose, I will reevaluate and plan to taper off over next year, reducing by 2.5 mg every month or so.

It was topical; I knew I was in a hypothyroid state, so it was foolish to take it.

Thanks, man. I'd guess the androsterone antagonizes estrogen so strongly that the DHEA becomes much safer. After I took a lot of progesterone, I felt absolute fine within an hour. As I woke up today, I'm still fine.

Maybe it's not wise to supplement DHEA at our ages especially if it's in DMSO. Progesterone and Andro are much safer in my opinion.

 

[sladerunner69]

Maybe it's not wise to supplement DHEA at our ages especially if it's in DMSO. Progesterone and Andro are much safer in my opinion.

Why would andro be safer than dhea?

 

[milk_lover]

Why would andro be safer than dhea?

I was thinking because it has no affinity to convert to estrogen.

 

[japanesedude]

DHEA always irritates me but I don't think DHEA can be aromatize when it stack with K2 or Androsterone.

 

[Frankdee20]

I wasn't content with a 117 pulse. I kept checking it every 10 minutes, but progesterone took away the anxiety.

I actually took melatonin last night for a high pulse (110+), and it worked really well. Helped me sleep, brought the pulse down to 93. Good stuff. Sorry to hear about fin; that's stuff Satanic. One time I mixed clonidine and cyproheptadine while having estrogen rebound from letrozole cessation, and I depleted my sodium. Good God; I was screaming in the ER like I was possessed. They offered me Valium, and I rejected it because I didn't want to build tolerance (such a dumb thing to do). Over two hours of me screaming and turning on a gurney, and I was so thankful to see the faces of the nurses visit me every twenty minutes. I stumbled to the bathroom and urinated, and then limped back to my cell adjacent to one with a schizophrenic and another with the girl from The Ring.

I try to check my pulse a maximum of once daily. I find I'm much less anxious that way.

What's an ideal resting pulse (not just having woken) for male, 37, 6'2", 234 lbs, not fit ? My evening number was roughly 81.

 

[DaveFoster]

What's an ideal resting pulse (not just having woken) for male, 37, 6'2", 234. ?

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An "ideal" pulse may be around 90, but it's possible that your pulse could be elevated from adrenaline, so it's important to be wary of your mood as an indicator. If thyroid lowers or elevates your pulse dramatically, both are indicative of hypothyroidism, and in the latter case, it's important to go adjust the dose very slowly.