DHEA + Progesterone == Pro-anabolic, Testosterone-promoting?

[Frankdee20]

Apart from the androsterone, do you have experience with progesterone and dhea, or just pregnenolone and dhea? I’m curious if you do have experience with both and just prefer the pregnenolone-dhea combo.

Have not tried the progesterone combo but considered it

 

[Spartan300]

Week 8 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 155lb 16.5% bf

Libido is ok but not quite what it was a month ago.

Bearing in mind that this has been a pretty good week in terms of lower stress I tried a night without cypro last night. I got to sleep ok but was wide awake 2 hours later. Ended up reading for a bit & taking 0.5mg cypro. Disappointing...

I'm going to try add a good walk into my daily routine and see if that helps.

 

[Spartan300]

Week 9 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 154lb 16.4% bf

I dropped the DHEA this week to see if libido improved & it had no perceivable effect. Nothing significant to report. Mood remains better than before starting prog. Sleep is mediocre.

I haven't yet managed to include a daily walk but did feel better & slept better when I did last Sunday. In spite of a passion for exercise most of my life I'm not feeling particularly motivated in that regard currently.

 

[Hanzo]

i started doing Cortinon 3 days ago. I do one dose before bed or in the morning. My aim is to raise T and lower E. What are you guys suggestions from your experiencr using Cortinon for this? so far i havent noticed it is better for sleep but it might help more for my day activities.

 

[Spartan300]

Effects when dosed at 4 drops am & pm are more subtle than I expected. My general disposition is a little better but nothing definitive regarding temperature, sleep, libido or body composition.

I really wanted to experience improved sleep from progesterone but it hasn't happened.

 

[Spartan300]

Week 10 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 156lb 16.8% bf

The previous weekend & the early part of last week I felt really good with a noticeable improvement in libido but that state tailed off to previous mediocre levels. I've not yet worked out what changed.
Before the dip I was seeing what people mean when they say that they don't have raging libido but are ready to go when the moment arises when estrogen is lowered. I felt calm & resilient.

I've managed to avoid some emotional stress lately & my mood is currently better than it has been in many months, maybe longer. So the effects of prog may be subtle but accumulative for me at least.

I've not done as much walking as I intended to but will try and increase that. I also intend to reintroduce some brief and not excessively taxing weights sessions this week as my belly fat is a bit more than I want it to be.

 

[Spartan300]

Week 11 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 157lb 16.8% bf

Around the middle of this week I switched to a different topical progesterone with VitE and coconut oil. I can't be certain that this is directly responsible but I've had a good week & I like the effect so far.

Again, how much is attributable to the prog is hard to say but my digestion seems to be improving. I have less bloating & better appetite.
My mood is the best it has been in a very long time. If I can continue to gain a pound or two per month & stay below 17% I'll be happy.

 

[Spartan300]

Week 12 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 157.6lb 16.9% bf

Last 48hrs I swapped back to progesterone without DHEA or VitE as libido and mood had dropped a bit. Better sleep & extremely good morning wood today. I'll remain on the prog only for this week.

I'm still using 0.5mg cypro for sleep and I wonder how much of any weight gain is attributable to the cypro or the prog. That said I have been using cypro on & off for 18months or so but this is the first time I've gained any weight for a while. I'm doing some brief/light weight sessions when I feel like it. Exercise tolerance is still a long way from where I'd like it.

I'd like to keep my bodyfat below 17% so when I hit that marker I'll clean up my eating a bit.

 

[Mossy]

Week 12 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 157.6lb 16.9% bf

Last 48hrs I swapped back to progesterone without DHEA or VitE as libido and mood had dropped a bit. Better sleep & extremely good morning wood today. I'll remain on the prog only for this week.

I'm still using 0.5mg cypro for sleep and I wonder how much of any weight gain is attributable to the cypro or the prog. That said I have been using cypro on & off for 18months or so but this is the first time I've gained any weight for a while. I'm doing some brief/light weight sessions when I feel like it. Exercise tolerance is still a long way from where I'd like it.

I'd like to keep my bodyfat below 17% so when I hit that marker I'll clean up my eating a bit.

Interesting that removing the DHEA and vitamin E would help the libido.

so, you’re still just using the topical cream? I realize your main objective his body composition, but have you noticed any other benefits or anything else worth sharing?

 

[Spartan300]

Both DHEA & VitE in the past have been libido killers for me.

I've tried to provide indications of what has been happening along the way but the most recent improvement, within the last 7 days has been an improvement in my digestion and I don't have anything else I can put it down to. Also and probably a consequence of improved digestion has (finally) been better sleep for the last few nights. This is the best I've felt in years. Libido and mood are superb.

I've said for a long time now that sleep is the key to everything but I think that sleep might be step 2 as I'm beginning to believe that digestion & gut health is key to everything. I think my sleep has been compromised by poor digestion for a long time.......

 

[TheBeard]

Both DHEA & VitE in the past have been libido killers for me.

I've tried to provide indications of what has been happening along the way but the most recent improvement, within the last 7 days has been an improvement in my digestion and I don't have anything else I can put it down to. Also and probably a consequence of improved digestion has (finally) been better sleep for the last few nights. This is the best I've felt in years. Libido and mood are superb.

I've said for a long time now that sleep is the key to everything but I think that sleep might be step 2 as I'm beginning to believe that digestion & gut health is key to everything. I think my sleep has been compromised by poor digestion for a long time.......

Your sleep, libido, and digestion have improved thanks to progesterone?

 

[Spartan300]

I can't say that definitively but I'm now in a much better state of health than I was a few months ago.

Progesterone is the only thing I'm using now that I wasn't before.

I'm inclined to go back a further step in the process and say that I believe stress is what compromised my health.
With the correct diet (low PUFA etc) you can possibly be more resilient to stress but for decades I'd followed mainstream health advice, avoided saturated fat, eaten largely lean white muscle meats, used vegetable oils for cooking etc.

For me at least I think stress compromised or exposed the fragility of my gut health and consequently sleep. If sleep is good then everything else seems to fall into place.

Maybe progesterone is just helping me break the stress cycle

 

[Mossy]

I can't say that definitively but I'm now in a much better state of health than I was a few months ago.

Progesterone is the only thing I'm using now that I wasn't before.

I'm inclined to go back a further step in the process and say that I believe stress is what compromised my health.
With the correct diet (low PUFA etc) you can possibly be more resilient to stress but for decades I'd followed mainstream health advice, avoided saturated fat, eaten largely lean white muscle meats, used vegetable oils for cooking etc.

For me at least I think stress compromised or exposed the fragility of my gut health and consequently sleep. If sleep is good then everything else seems to fall into place.

Maybe progesterone is just helping me break the stress cycle

Thanks for the additional detail. Would it be fair to say you prefer the topical versus the oral progesterone?

 

[Spartan300]

Generally I've been happy with topical results and I've not had much opportunity to try it orally. I have used cortinon+ orally on occasion but I used that mainly topically (naval application).

I wouldn't mind trying a powder orally.

 

[Mossy]

Generally I've been happy with topical results and I've not had much opportunity to try it orally. I have used cortinon+ orally on occasion but I used that mainly topically (naval application).

I wouldn't mind trying a powder orally.

Ok, just wanted to get a feel for oral vs topical. I’ve tried both, with progest-e, and would have to say oral hits me harder. I’ve used powder only topically, but may try orally soon.

 

[Spartan300]

Week 13 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 159.6lb 17.2% bf

For the first time in a while I did three brief workouts this week. Exercise capacity & recovery is linked to sleep and sleep remains better because digestion has remained good. While stress levels are ok I expect this situation to continue and if I'm really lucky, improve further.

Prog dosage remains 20mg am & pm. Still using a little thyroid & cypro.

 

[Spartan300]

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 157.8lb 16.9% bf

Maybe the three albeit light workouts the previous week was too much but this has also been a stressful week and my diet has not been as good as I want it to be.

Mood, libido & sleep have taken a hit but I'm hoping I can get back on track in a few days. I also ran out of the progesterone I have done best on which means I've had to rely on ones with either DHEA or VitE. My DHEA when tested was above ref range so whether that means that the effect of taking more has a detrimental effect I'm not sure...

 

[Spartan300]

Week 15 Update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 157lb 16.9% bf

A better week all round although not necessarily reflected in the numbers. I have slept better most nights which was much needed.

New wardrobes with full length mirrors confirm that now is the time to tighten up my diet.....I think that's one of the problems with the Peat principals - for me at least. It seems that primarily as long as PUFA is avoided most other stuff, and especially sugar, is ok.
That tends to lead to the mindset that cakes, chocolate, biscuits etc are ok. Might be a subject that warrants it's own thread...

I'm not sure what my expectations were but so far this experiment, at least as far as body recomposition is concerned, has been nothing like the 'this could rival supplementing testosterone' suggestions at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Beastmode]

Ray used to recommend 100mg pregnenolone + 5mg/10mg DHEA daily to man who wrote to him they has issues with low androgens or gonadal function. So, I'd try 30mg-50mg pregnenolone for every 5mg DHEA.

Ray's recommendation is what I use daily and it definitely keeps my muscles strong without any lifting, minus throwing my toddler around. Libido was always pretty good before, but it definitely maintains a potency, best I can describe, with this regiment.

 

[Mossy]

Week 15 Update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 157lb 16.9% bf

A better week all round although not necessarily reflected in the numbers. I have slept better most nights which was much needed.

New wardrobes with full length mirrors confirm that now is the time to tighten up my diet.....I think that's one of the problems with the Peat principals - for me at least. It seems that primarily as long as PUFA is avoided most other stuff, and especially sugar, is ok.
That tends to lead to the mindset that cakes, chocolate, biscuits etc are ok. Might be a subject that warrants it's own thread...

I'm not sure what my expectations were but so far this experiment, at least as far as body recomposition is concerned, has been nothing like the 'this could rival supplementing testosterone' suggestions at the beginning of the thread.

I’m curious to know if you intend to continue with this, or are you convinced you’re not going to get the results you desire?