DHEA + Progesterone == Pro-anabolic, Testosterone-promoting?

[Scenes]

My experience:

For the past 4 months I have been liberally spraying a 20mg/ml solution of progesterone dissolved in vodka/ethyl acetoacetate onto my hairline and crown. I am 31 and had some modest thinning. Thickness has noticeably improved and my barber asked what I had been doing. He just assumed I had been using rogaine "it doesn't normally work this well!"...."because I'm not using that".

This progesterone dose seems to have been high enough to kill my libido, so I thought to add a little oral DHEA to my regimen, twice daily doses of 3mg, sublingual. Not only did this restore my libido, my performance in the gym increased MARKEDLY. My gym buddy thought I was injecting AAS, the effect was THAT remarkable. Following your comments on the forum regarding this stack I have tried about every combination of dose/route of administration. Topical progesterone, applied liberally to scalp and torso (approx 50mg) WITH sublingual DHEA 3mg/x2 day is most effective. I have tried both orally and both topically, neither combination comes close. This has done wonders for my body composition and thyroid health, honestly I've never felt better.

I emptied my bottle of haidut's progestene into a spray bottle and have been applying fairly liberally throughout the day to my scalp. Sprays easily, no issues with application. I have a lot of hair on top but it's thinning, and the progestene has made it look thinner. Hard to say if it's the progesterone or just the product itself with the sfa making it look a bit oily and thin - I think the latter.

Hard to know what dose I'm using exactly.

I'm tempted to try the same thing with keto dht coz I wonder whether the scalp would respond similarly to the prostate to a direct application of dht, in that prostate cancer is supposedly caused by dht but, in fact, when dht is injected directly it cures it.

 

[bobbity]

I emptied my bottle of haidut's progestene into a spray bottle and have been applying fairly liberally throughout the day to my scalp. Sprays easily, no issues with application. I have a lot of hair on top but it's thinning, and the progestene has made it look thinner. Hard to say if it's the progesterone or just the product itself with the sfa making it look a bit oily and thin - I think the latter.

Hard to know what dose I'm using exactly.

I'm tempted to try the same thing with keto dht coz I wonder whether the scalp would respond similarly to the prostate to a direct application of dht, in that prostate cancer is supposedly caused by dht but, in fact, when dht is injected directly it cures it.

I simply applied it once a day, these things take time!!

 

[Spartan300]

Week 4 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 152.5lb 16.2% bf

I need to caveat this update as stress levels have been way up which has had a detrimental impact on already mediocre sleep. I believe stress to be the biggest factor which diet & supplements may help with to an extent but not overcome.

Not much else I can say about this week. I'm disappointed to see no effect after a month of consistent daily 20mg prog. I'm not convinced of the quality of the progesterone I'm using so I have 8:1 cortinon on the way.

 

[Mossy]

Week 4 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 152.5lb 16.2% bf

I need to caveat this update as stress levels have been way up which has had a detrimental impact on already mediocre sleep. I believe stress to be the biggest factor which diet & supplements may help with to an extent but not overcome.

Not much else I can say about this week. I'm disappointed to see no effect after a month of consistent daily 20mg prog. I'm not convinced of the quality of the progesterone I'm using so I have 8:1 cortinon on the way.

Thanks for sharing. Is there anything beneficial, that wasn’t part of your original objective, you can report from your month of use? Or even anything negative?

 

[Spartan300]

Not really. I killed my libido around week 2 with over-exercising and again a little due to recent stress.

Nothing different in terms of sleep, temps or body composition. Noticing no sedative effect has been the biggest surprise for me.

My goal here aligns with the original claims - I'd hoped to gain some mass whilst improving body composition. If I had gotten into deeper sleep I think those things could have happened.
I'm not giving up yet and will try a different prog/DHEA combo orally instead of topically when I get it.

 

[Mossy]

Not really. I killed my libido around week 2 with over-exercising and again a little due to recent stress.

Nothing different in terms of sleep, temps or body composition. Noticing no sedative effect has been the biggest surprise for me.

My goal here aligns with the original claims - I'd hoped to gain some mass whilst improving body composition. If I had gotten into deeper sleep I think those things could have happened.
I'm not giving up yet and will try a different prog/DHEA combo orally instead of topically when I get it.

Thanks for the detail.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I know some experimenting with this combo might be interested in the age reserving effects that the P4/DHEA combo has on the thymus-

Reversing human aging likely possible with progesterone / DHEA – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

I just came across this thread from Haidut that flew totally under the radar for the past year. He posted a study showing that non-aromatizable androgens (specifically DHT) do not suppress immunity-

Estrogen And Cortisol, Not Androgens, Suppress Immunity

There is a very famous theory in reproductive biology still considered the dominant one in its field. Namely, males have to accept a trade-off between androgen levels and immunity. It is known as the immunocompetence handicap hypothesis (ICHH). Higher androgen levels, the theory goes, allow the...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Spartan300]

Week 5 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 153.5lb 16.3% bf

Hmmm, I'm not really sure what to make of this, there's not much happening in terms of body composition that I'd hoped for. My mood and libido remain good now if I don't overdo it working out. That said I'd like to be able to undertake some more productive workouts....

Two nights ago I switched to Cortinon+ and bearing in mind this is the only change I've made I'm trying to work out why I'm now feeling angry/irritable?
The label suggests this is P4 which I think might be different to bio-identical progesterone? Also I don't think P4 has the sedative effects of regular progesterone which I am looking for as a sleep aid. I have also asked in the Cortinon thread but no replies yet.

I will continue the experiment for the time being but if the Cortinon+ continues to make me irritable then I might be switching back to the topical cream I was using. Hoping that doesn't turn out to be the case.

 

[Scenes]

P

Week 5 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 153.5lb 16.3% bf

Hmmm, I'm not really sure what to make of this, there's not much happening in terms of body composition that I'd hoped for. My mood and libido remain good now if I don't overdo it working out. That said I'd like to be able to undertake some more productive workouts....

Two nights ago I switched to Cortinon+ and bearing in mind this is the only change I've made I'm trying to work out why I'm now feeling angry/irritable?
The label suggests this is P4 which I think might be different to bio-identical progesterone? Also I don't think P4 has the sedative effects of regular progesterone which I am looking for as a sleep aid. I have also asked in the Cortinon thread but no replies yet.

I will continue the experiment for the time being but if the Cortinon+ continues to make me irritable then I might be switching back to the topical cream I was using. Hoping that doesn't turn out to be the case.

P4 is progesterone. You are mixing it up with keto P4 which is different. P5 is pregnenolone.

 

[Spartan300]

@Scenes yes possibly, I just saw P4 on the label & wondered. Thanks for confirming.

Feels different so far from the topical cream I was using. I don't notice much sedation if any and libido has dipped slightly.

 

[Spartan300]

Week 6 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 154lb 16.4% bf

Continuing experiment but not sure I'm seeing direct effects.
Still using 0.5mg cypro most nights for sleep.

 

[Spartan300]

@SonOfEurope I know you had some long term success with progesterone but I was just wondering what kept you on it in the early stages if results were subtle?

 

[SonOfEurope]

@Spartan300

When is started IFRC I was doing the full 28mg just before bed.

After the excitement of that initial "estrogen flush" as they call it, like a week into it, my sleep had improved so much I was able to immediately, right there, stop Mirtazapine and bring the benzo from 2.5mg to only 2, then obviously progress slowed down and eventually I split the dose in two 14mg morning/night.

That kept me going.

If you mean any "Sexual sides" during what I assume was that estrone/e2 flush I was actually more excitable... There was no shrinkage or anything I just split the dose to have less sedation in the mornings and keep blood levels steadier, p4 has a half life of almost 30 hours so its pretty stable.

Libido though, became more controllable as if I felt more in control of urges to for ex. Whistle at at a girl - a more direct approach of talking to her.

Sperm volume increased a lot too. By far the biggest advantage was shoulder, back, pectoral and neck muscle increase and going from 5'8 to 5'10 - but I don't don't know if this was only due to the p4 since almost a year in I added some DHEA too.

 

[Spartan300]

Thamks @SonOfEurope those are some impressive results - I wish I was seeing similar.

I'm using 32/4mg P4/DHEA morning and night. Libido seems fine but I'm not feeling any of the expected results. I was really hoping it was going to help with sedation/sleep but it's just not happening

 

[Spartan300]

Week 7 update:

Start - 152lb 16.2% bf
Now - 154lb 16.3% bf

Continuing experiment but effects remain subtle. I guess an increase of 1 lb/month over 12 months could be quite significant if bodyfat % remains relatively unchanged.

 

[tankasnowgod]

@SonOfEurope I know you had some long term success with progesterone but I was just wondering what kept you on it in the early stages if results were subtle?

I've tried various other hormones in various doses, including pregnenolone, DHEA, androsterone, thyroid, and such.

One thing I've noticed about all of them........ they take a while to exert their effects. In a way, this makes sense. If you decided have a house built, and knew it would take a year or so, would you be frustrated if you walked by the lot in week 3 and saw no changes?

Everytime a hormone "worked," I had to give it at least a couple months. Sometimes, you do notice some changes or progress in the early going. When I tried Prog on the inner elbow, I did notice biceps firming up within a week. But that's probably the quickest I ever noticed a physical change. Thyroid might be the quickest, sometimes giving a noticeable lift in mood and/or energy in minutes to hours.

When I went for Prog + DHEA this time, I made a 10 week initial commitment to myself that I would continue, only quitting if I noticed any serious negatives. Well, I didn't really notice any negatives, so that made the commitment pretty easy. I'm interested to keep this dose up for the next 9 months, because if you looks at Haidut's "Anti-Aging" post, he suggests a lot of the benefits might come in months 9-12 (based on the HGH/DHEA/metformin study he was talking about).

Reversing human aging likely possible with progesterone / DHEA – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

I know he mentioned that, but has ANYONE gone the full year with that combo yet? I haven't seen any reports, so I've sure I'm among the first ones, maybe I will be the very first to do a year.

Pretty much the only downside might be potential lowered libido (hasn't been an issue yet), or maybe some "feminizing" effects (nothing there either, except maybe better skin, which is a plus. Any distinctly "anti-male" feminization, I will adjust doses if that happens). Even then, there is likely beneficial repairs that are taking place.

 

[Spartan300]

@tankasnowgod your results so far seem similar to mine.

I also intend to keep going because I'm not seeing any detrimental effect.
My biggest disappointment is the lack of expected sedation. I was hoping to be able to ditch the cypro...

 

[Mossy]

Glad to hear everyone is still at it.

I tried roughly 7 drops topical progeste-e for about 2 1/2 weeks, along with scattered dosages of topical DHEA, and have some of the typical positive and negative results. The negative: reduced libido, more emotional, maybe too sedated, some bloat at times, and dry skin at times. Like @Spartan300, I can get irritated easier and find myself a bit more confrontational. Also, depending on the DHEA dose, and maybe even the P4, my sleep can feel interrupted and uneven. The positive: better skin at times, more relaxed at times, and generally in a good mood. It’s funny, but no hesitation to talk to girls at work—though that wasn’t my objective in taking it. I’m already naturally pretty talkative and this might make me too talkative.

My two main goals in taking this are hair regrowth and anti-aging. I did try an oral dose of both P4 and DHEA, which hit me harder than topical, with regard to sedation and all around effects. I would like to try the the larger doses, 3x day, orally, but am anticipating some magnified negative results. Also, oral DHEA at night may keep me up.

 

[Frankdee20]

I definitely noticed firmer biceps within the first week of Pansterone and Androsterone

 

[Mossy]

I definitely noticed firmer biceps within the first week of Pansterone and Androsterone

Apart from the androsterone, do you have experience with progesterone and dhea, or just pregnenolone and dhea? I’m curious if you do have experience with both and just prefer the pregnenolone-dhea combo.