DHEA : Dissociation/de-personalization

[newdp]

Hey guys,

I am a 34 year old Male.

I started taking topical DHEA (Dermacrine) on April 11th ( 29 days ago ) The formula included ( 144 mg DHEA, 72 mg 7,8-Benzoflavone, 72 mg Resveratrol, 36 mg Pregnenolone, 18 mg Chrysin )

I started to develop feelings of depression and they morphed into de-personalization, by the time I noticed what had happened I stopped the DHEA 12 days ago.

I have now had de-personalization for 12 days, I no longer have any feelings of depression, but I cannot do any sort of self reflecting without feeling incredibly ****88 up, it's super scary.

Does anyone have any idea how or why this could have happened? I've taken dermacrine in the past for 8+ weeks without any issue but this was many years ago.

I don't want to hop straight onto prescription drugs, really looking for advice, I came across another post by another member that ran into the same issue @sladerunner69 but didn't see a resolution on the post.

Appreciate your input, I respect your time and effort, if you think you can help me and require a donation to do so, I have no issues doing that, thank you so much I am desperate.

@haidut , @Koveras , @Travis , @tara , @Blossom

 

[InChristAlone]

That is a crap ton of DHEA even if it is just topical. Sorry you are going through this. Good idea to stay off the hormones for now. Sounds like you are in severe estrogen dominance or something from it. Peat doesn't recommend much DHEA anymore because of it going down the estrogen path for many people. And if he does it's in doses of like 10 mg or less. Keep the liver well fed to inactivate the estrogen floating around and eat a raw carrot salad everyday to help sequester some of the bile coming out.

 

[Dhair]

Hey guys,

I am a 34 year old Male.

I started taking topical DHEA (Dermacrine) on April 11th ( 29 days ago ) The formula included ( 144 mg DHEA, 72 mg 7,8-Benzoflavone, 72 mg Resveratrol, 36 mg Pregnenolone, 18 mg Chrysin )

I started to develop feelings of depression and they morphed into de-personalization, by the time I noticed what had happened I stopped the DHEA 12 days ago.

I have now had de-personalization for 12 days, I no longer have any feelings of depression, but I cannot do any sort of self reflecting without feeling incredibly ****88 up, it's super scary.

Does anyone have any idea how or why this could have happened? I've taken dermacrine in the past for 8+ weeks without any issue but this was many years ago.

I don't want to hop straight onto prescription drugs, really looking for advice, I came across another post by another member that ran into the same issue @sladerunner69 but didn't see a resolution on the post.

Appreciate your input, I respect your time and effort, if you think you can help me and require a donation to do so, I have no issues doing that, thank you so much I am desperate.

@haidut , @Koveras , @Travis , @tara , @Blossom

I suffer from chronic deprsonalization/derealization and I can tell you that anything estrogenic has the potential to launch me into a full-on dissociated episode, so I am not surprised that you are having such a hard time with this after using such massive amounts of DHEA.
I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending anything specific, but it will definitely go away. I would not mess with that garbage formulation that you were applying topically. Maybe stick to small doses (a few milligrams) of non-aromatizable steroids and progesterone.

 

[Eric Yim]

I suffer from chronic deprsonalization/derealization and I can tell you that anything estrogenic has the potential to launch me into a full-on dissociated episode, so I am not surprised that you are having such a hard time with this after using such massive amounts of DHEA.
I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending anything specific, but it will definitely go away. I would not mess with that garbage formulation that you were applying topically. Maybe stick to small doses (a few milligrams) of non-aromatizable steroids and progesterone.

Use some anadrol

 

[jyb]

How do you know it is due to the (high dose!) DHEA and not the many other things in that drug?

 

[newdp]

Really appreciate the great feedback so far.

I have access to some
Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione - is this worth taking to see if it has immediate effects on estrogen? That being said should I just rely on hpa-axis to reset everything naturally? Besides the raw carrot salad , should I be looking at a full diet change to speed things along?

Guys thanks so much

 

[newdp]

Trying to get to the root of my issue, is it possible that the ingredients in what I was taking have effecting my NMDA receptors? I have come across someone who had a similar issue and felt immediate relief upon taking Selegiline and Aniracteam. Something to note, I have noticed coffee significantly reduces my symptoms. Thanks again for your input.

 

[DaveFoster]

It often takes several weeks for complete hormonal recovery, but adequate cholesterol and saturated fat in the diet can have powerful stabilizing effects, such as with eggs and generous amounts of butter.

After taking D-aspartic acid, I experienced severe toxicity (possibly mediated through NMDA excitotoxicity.) I thought I would die: spells of crying, anxious episodes during periods of relaxing with periods lethargy and depression during waking hours. After consuming sticks of butter daily for a few days, everything returned to normal within a week.

 

[newdp]

Will definitely give that a try @DaveFoster - I also noticed that even though I've experienced generalized anxiety my entire life ( eg: high heart rate, random panic attacks etc ) since I've had depersonalization I've actually had zero anxiety - that lead me to believe that perhaps the Dermacrine impacted my Dopamine, in turn impacted my Norepinephrine? For the last 10 years my heart rate has always been 89-100, since depersonalization it's never higher than 79, with zero anxiety. I've tried alot of supplements so far to no avail, but thinking maybe L-Tyrosine would be a good option for me in the mean time? Thoughts?

 

[DaveFoster]

Will definitely give that a try @DaveFoster - I also noticed that even though I've experienced generalized anxiety my entire life ( eg: high heart rate, random panic attacks etc ) since I've had depersonalization I've actually had zero anxiety - that lead me to believe that perhaps the Dermacrine impacted my Dopamine, in turn impacted my Norepinephrine? For the last 10 years my heart rate has always been 89-100, since depersonalization it's never higher than 79, with zero anxiety. I've tried alot of supplements so far to no avail, but thinking maybe L-Tyrosine would be a good option for me in the mean time? Thoughts?

Estrogen tends to inhibit your ability to metabolize sugar, where it raises free fatty acids (FFA) and cortisol. Cortisol itself lowers adrenaline but contributes to many neuroses, particularly depression and psychosis.

 

[newdp]

Update : L-Tyrosine messed me up big time, immediately felt a head buzz after 30ish minutes, lowered blood pressure, lowered heart rate - definitely not placebo, tested with my heart rate monitor. 2 hours into 1500 mg of L-tyrosine extremely terrible feelings-of depersonalization, almost as bad as when I first got it two weeks ago.

Anyone willing to work with me directly that has experience and has a history of working alongside someone with a similar issue will donate $500 CAD / 0.046 BTC for your time, I understand this may take weeks of trial and error but I am desperate.

 

[General Orange]

Update : L-Tyrosine messed me up big time, immediately felt a head buzz after 30ish minutes, lowered blood pressure, lowered heart rate - definitely not placebo, tested with my heart rate monitor. 2 hours into 1500 mg of L-tyrosine extremely terrible feelings-of depersonalization, almost as bad as when I first got it two weeks ago.

Anyone willing to work with me directly that has experience and has a history of working alongside someone with a similar issue will donate $500 CAD / 0.046 BTC for your time, I understand this may take weeks of trial and error but I am desperate.

Edit: sorry it is serotonin instead of dopamine
Coffee helped you by decreasing Serotonin turnover, indicating a too high rate of Serotonin firing.

*high serotonin and over-activity of dopamine...
...leads to disorder of glutamic / cholinergic neurotransmission, that is caused by too high DHEA, that enhances the activity of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine in the brain,
and conversion to dopamine and estrogens, lead to over-excitation, inflammation, and dissociation and depersonalization
Neurobiological and Neuropsychiatric Effects of Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and DHEA Sulfate (DHEAS)

To bring balance back and reduce dissociation of personality, you need the following:

-regulate glutamic action with Centella Asiatica plus vitamin E, magnesium, b6, taurine to increase GABA action and reduce neuro-inflammation and estrogen effects on tryptophan / Kynurenine pathway,
-regulate dopamine / serotonin turnover with green tea or l-theanine
https://www.researchgate.net/public...epinephrine_and_serotonin_levels_in_rat_brain

-re-balance serotonin/noradrenaline and normalize hpa axis with Ashwagandha


edit:
-Also you can drink Licorice root tea to reduce catechol-amines effects instead of coffee/tea, and displace estrogen from SHBG for more free testosterone.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090218223504.htm

-I am not sure if you have high or low serotonin levels, depression indicates low serotonin.
But you can test this by taking L-Theanine, which decreases serotonin synthesis, if it makes you depressed, you know you have too low tryptophan synthesis.
If so, you can take niacinamide 50mg+ to increase uptake of tryptophan by diverting it from kyurenine synthesis.

 

[General Orange]

DHEA antagonizes the effects of cortisol. Increase the intake of cholesterol, the precursor of cortisol.
Eat eggs and butter with the tea or coffee to increase cortisol, and licorice root will extend the workings of cortisol to balance the cortisol/DHEA ratio.

 

[newdp]

Edit: sorry it is serotonin instead of dopamine
Coffee helped you by decreasing Serotonin turnover, indicating a too high rate of Serotonin firing.

*high serotonin and over-activity of dopamine...
...leads to disorder of glutamic / cholinergic neurotransmission, that is caused by too high DHEA, that enhances the activity of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine in the brain,
and conversion to dopamine and estrogens, lead to over-excitation, inflammation, and dissociation and depersonalization
Neurobiological and Neuropsychiatric Effects of Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and DHEA Sulfate (DHEAS)

To bring balance back and reduce dissociation of personality, you need the following:

-regulate glutamic action with Centella Asiatica plus vitamin E, magnesium, b6, taurine to increase GABA action and reduce neuro-inflammation and estrogen effects on tryptophan / Kynurenine pathway,
-regulate dopamine / serotonin turnover with green tea or l-theanine
https://www.researchgate.net/public...epinephrine_and_serotonin_levels_in_rat_brain

-re-balance serotonin/noradrenaline and normalize hpa axis with Ashwagandha


edit:
-Also you can drink Licorice root tea to reduce catechol-amines effects instead of coffee/tea, and displace estrogen from SHBG for more free testosterone.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090218223504.htm

-I am not sure if you have high or low serotonin levels, depression indicates low serotonin.
But you can test this by taking L-Theanine, which decreases serotonin synthesis, if it makes you depressed, you know you have too low tryptophan synthesis.
If so, you can take niacinamide 50mg+ to increase uptake of tryptophan by diverting it from kyurenine synthesis.

Lots of great info, really appreciate your feedback - I've been taking L-theanine - no depression.

My current regimen consists of these products:

2 Pills : https://naturalfactors.com/product/ltheanine/
4 Pills : Advanced B Complex | AOR
4 Pills : Taurine | AOR
2 Pills : Rhodiola | AOR
3 Pills: Niacin No-Flush | AOR
15 drops : https://www.vitasave.ca/delicious-d-vitamin-d3-raspberry.html

 

[Frankdee20]

Whenever I take breaks from Pregnenalone and resume, I get this even at low doses

 

[General Orange]

When the acetylcholine is deficient you get disassociation symptoms.
You can increase it by taking ALCAR / Acetyl-L-Carnitine 1-6g and eating egg yolk.

 

[Frankdee20]

When the acetylcholine is deficient you get disassociation symptoms.
You can increase it by taking ALCAR / Acetyl-L-Carnitine 1-6g and eating egg yolk.

Hmm High acetylcholine can indirectly antagonize DA. It makes you dumb.

 

[newdp]

Any merit in taking alpha gpc alongside ALCAR and cholesterol? Alpha gpc boosts acetylcholine?

 

[General Orange]

Whenever I take breaks from Pregnenalone and resume, I get this even at low doses

Pregnenalone has effect on the cholinergic system
The effects of the neurosteroids: pregnenolone, progesterone and dehydroepiandrosterone on muscarinic receptor-induced responses in Xenopus oocytes... - PubMed - NCBI

You could try Ginseng to modulate acetylcholine release
Increase of acetylcholine release by Panax ginseng root enhances insulin secretion in Wistar rats.
Increase of acetylcholine release by Panax ginseng root enhances insulin secretion in Wistar rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of wild ginseng on scopolamine-induced acetylcholine depletion in the rat hippocampus.
Scopolamine injection induced impaired performance in the water maze test and severe cell losses in hippocampal cholinergic neurons, as indicated by decreased choline acetyltransferase immunoreactivity and increased acetylcholinesterase reactivity. Daily administration of wild ginseng produced a significant improvement in the escape latency for finding the platform in the Morris water maze and reduced the loss of cholinergic immunoreactivity in the hippocampus. The reduced expression of brain-derived neurotrophic factor mRNA due to the scopolamine injection was recovered to normal levels by the administration of wild ginseng.
Effect of wild ginseng on scopolamine-induced acetylcholine depletion in the rat hippocampus. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[General Orange]

Any merit in taking alpha gpc alongside ALCAR and cholesterol? Alpha gpc boosts acetylcholine?

it works in high dosage, but it is more expensive then ALCAR and can give headaches.