Devastating Effects Of Spaying/Neutering Pets

RobertJM

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I think of this also. Would 1 drop a week of Progestene be enough? Or should I add 1 drop of Pansterone as well, to have pregnenolone and DHEA? Would this apply to both desexed male and female cats?

I’m very nervous about adding anything to a cats bowl myself after messing myself up with supplements and my attempt at this ‘lifestyle’ (or whatever it is). I don’t think I’m the right person to be doing that. Definitely nothing with any topical enhancing compounds. Perhaps the one drop of something in something safe (like tocopherols) is ok, but I’m not sure. Even then, it can be diluted further. So something to think about for me.
 

yerrag

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I’m very nervous about adding anything to a cats bowl myself after messing myself up with supplements and my attempt at this ‘lifestyle’ (or whatever it is). I don’t think I’m the right person to be doing that. Definitely nothing with any topical enhancing compounds. Perhaps the one drop of something in something safe (like tocopherols) is ok, but I’m not sure. Even then, it can be diluted further. So something to think about for me.
I was thinking that desexing would keep them from producing some hormones. Since progesterone at the very least antagonizes estrogen, it would be helpful. But I think pregnenolone would do as well, since it balances the hormones. Not sure about DHEA.

With cats, it's hard to know how healthy they are. They hide their sickness well, one day they're chipper and the next day they just suddenly take a turn for the worse, and they quickly go. The only way to tell you're doing a good job is if your cat gets to grow old and still look and act. young.
 

RobertJM

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I was thinking that desexing would keep them from producing some hormones. Since progesterone at the very least antagonizes estrogen, it would be helpful. But I think pregnenolone would do as well, since it balances the hormones. Not sure about DHEA.

With cats, it's hard to know how healthy they are. They hide their sickness well, one day they're chipper and the next day they just suddenly take a turn for the worse, and they quickly go. The only way to tell you're doing a good job is if your cat gets to grow old and still look and act. young.

Oh for sure, I agree. I’m just on about how easy it is to overdose yourself with these supplements. So for me anyway, ultra cautious approach in something (or anything) that I decide to do. As overdosing the cat and causing extreme hunger pangs for it, will just result in their little body’s returning to stress hormones anyway. Good luck with your purring *****.
 

yerrag

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Let's see if this goes thru: switching gears.
 
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If the cat is male, then it would be necessary to supplement testosterone, right? Although I think haidut said somewhere that in castrated humans testosterone supplementation isn't necessary. Maybe the same is true for other animals.
 

yerrag

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If the cat is male, then it would be necessary to supplement testosterone, right? Although I think haidut said somewhere that in castrated humans testosterone supplementation isn't necessary. Maybe the same is true for other animals.
Is that right? I just felt that progesterone is needed, but that if balance is needed, pregnenolone would come in handy as Ray has said it balances out the hormones, enabling deficient hormones to be produced from it. I'm not sure why I mentioned DHEA, but I think it converts into androgens if needed, and so testosterone would be unnecessary?
 

Mito

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Of course it does, it increases dramatically risk of lethal prostate cancer and other related cancers like testicular and possibly also bladder. The sperm needs to be periodically expelled and getting it to pool there has already been proven to at the very least reliably cause autoimmune conditions in 50%+ of the men who get it done. Basically, they start developing antibodies to their own sperm. Of course, the claim is that this is completely benign despite the fact that chronic antibody production is known to reliably lead to vascular pathology and CVD.
https://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.2013.54.8446
A Vasectomy May Increase Prostate Cancer Risk
https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)44228-7/pdf
Vasectomy, anti-sperm antibodies and arterial damage. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Optimistic evaluation of the safety of vasectomy in spite of apparent absence of deleterious side effects may have been premature. Numerous studies in a variety of vasectomized animal species show that antisperm antibodies develop following vasectomy. In addition, 50% of vasectomized men have been found to have antisperm antibodies following vasectomy. By inference, this would mean a chronic source of antigen-antibody complexes which might lead to extensive vascular pathology, including endothelial damage with consequent acute vasculities and chronic atherosclerosis. A study by Alexander et al. of vasectomized monkeys suggests that the humoral immune response to antigens that often follow vasectomy could enhance diet-induced atherosclerosis. Long-term epidemiological studies of vasectomized men are needed to establish if vascular damage is a consequence of vasectomy. If so, there is an obvious need to eliminate the chronic source of antigen in those already vasectomized."

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
A man's risk of prostate cancer has been linked to his prior reproductive history, with low sperm quality, low ejaculation frequency, and a low number of offspring being associated with increased prostate cancer risk. It is however highly controversial whether vasectomy, a common sterilization procedure for men, influences prostate cancer risk.

METHODS:
We established a cohort of all Danish men (born from 1937) and linked information on vasectomy, doctor visits, socioeconomic factors and cancer from nationwide registries using unique personal identification numbers. Incidence risk ratios for prostate cancer by time since vasectomy and age at vasectomy during the follow-up were estimated using log-linear Poisson regression.

RESULTS:
Overall, 26,238 cases of prostate cancer occurred among 2,150,162 Danish men during 53.4 million person-years of follow-up. Overall, vasectomized men had an increased risk of prostate cancer compared with non-vasectomized men (relative risk 1.15; 95% CI, 1.10 to 1.20). The increased risk of prostate cancer following vasectomy persisted for at least 30 years after the procedure and was observed regardless of age at vasectomy and cancer stage at diagnosis. Adjustment for the number of visits to doctor and socioeconomic factors did not explain the association.

CONCLUSIONS:
Vasectomy is associated with a statistically significant increased long-term risk of prostate cancer. The absolute increased risk following vasectomy is nevertheless small, but our finding supports a relationship between reproductive factors and prostate cancer risk.

Vasectomy and prostate cancer risk: a 38-year nationwide cohort study. - PubMed - NCBI
 

CrystalClear

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With cats, it's hard to know how healthy they are. They hide their sickness well, one day they're chipper and the next day they just suddenly take a turn for the worse, and they quickly go. The only way to tell you're doing a good job is if your cat gets to grow old and still look and act. young.
I can tell by the condition of my cats' coats. Liver and coconut oil with mixed raw diet seems to work really well with them. Plush fur and nice and shiny. One older female (14 years) has a little arthritis in the front joints. I heard Haidut say on the last live podcast to give a little pregnenolone in food, so I will be adding that to her food.

I suppose Dr Becker would see a lot of complications due to early desexing in dogs and cats. I haven't experienced any problems in any of my cats or dogs though (those desexed at a young age). My only problem with a dog was my jack russell terrier contracted toxoplasmosis from eating cat poo. He survived that and died later at age 13.
 

yerrag

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I can tell by the condition of my cats' coats. Liver and coconut oil with mixed raw diet seems to work really well with them. Plush fur and nice and shiny. One older female (14 years) has a little arthritis in the front joints. I heard Haidut say on the last live podcast to give a little pregnenolone in food, so I will be adding that to her food.

You have to know where that arthritis is coming from. But easier said than done. How do you know she has arthritis? How does pregnenolone fix he arthritis? Ray Peat has talked along this line also. Does it work for everyone? I doubt it. It's the safest first thing to try, granted. What if it doesn't work? What else can be tried? Been long enough on this forum, it's not about throwing stuff on conditions as much as knowing why it works for some, and not for others. And then finding out what else can be done, on top of what's been tried.

Being metabolically sound is mostly what Ray Peat and this forum revolves around, but it doesn't eclipse all human conditions. It is helpful in that it makes the organism more able to withstand insults and stresses, from within an without. It's really up to us to that to the body of knowledge over and above the metabolic aspect of health.
 

CrystalClear

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You have to know where that arthritis is coming from. But easier said than done. How do you know she has arthritis? How does pregnenolone fix he arthritis? Ray Peat has talked along this line also. Does it work for everyone? I doubt it. It's the safest first thing to try, granted. What if it doesn't work? What else can be tried? Been long enough on this forum, it's not about throwing stuff on conditions as much as knowing why it works for some, and not for others. And then finding out what else can be done, on top of what's been tried.
Not sure exactly why she is getting it. She's 14 1/2 years old and her diet hasn't always been as good as it is now. Her diet isn't completely devoid of pufa. Her front leg joint is slightly bent when she walks and she doesn't like making big jumps anymore - she needs to use the kittens' smaller cat tree to get up and down from things, otherwise I help her.

I have no idea if pregnenolone will help her or not yet. I assume it will have protective, anti inflammatory effects. They call it a hormone of youth, I've read. When I have taken larger doses of it, it has helped me with back issues. It also gives me static hair. But when I take a very small amount with MB it helps me get to sleep, just as Haidut suggested.
Not sure what to try if it doesn't work, but I will keep my eyes and ears open for any new suggestions.
 
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My numero uno when it comes do dealing with anything medical is this. Unless there is at least 20 years of solid follow up evidence that the intervention causes no observable pathology I would not touch it with a 10-foot pole. And if it is heavily advertised and subsidized then I would not touch it even if it was proven safe. At this point, pretty much everything around you is purposefully designed to either kill, maim, or otherwise incapacitate you for profit, or in service of some sick idiot's grand world order plans.

Amen brother. Another of mine is “do not do anything medical unless it is a last resort.”

I would NEVER get snipped, and NEVER get that LASIK surgery etc. etc. etc.

NEVER get anything done unless you MUST. Especially surgery.
 

yerrag

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Not sure exactly why she is getting it. She's 14 1/2 years old and her diet hasn't always been as good as it is now. Her diet isn't completely devoid of pufa. Her front leg joint is slightly bent when she walks and she doesn't like making big jumps anymore - she needs to use the kittens' smaller cat tree to get up and down from things, otherwise I help her.

I have no idea if pregnenolone will help her or not yet. I assume it will have protective, anti inflammatory effects. They call it a hormone of youth, I've read. When I have taken larger doses of it, it has helped me with back issues. It also gives me static hair. But when I take a very small amount with MB it helps me get to sleep, just as Haidut suggested.
Not sure what to try if it doesn't work, but I will keep my eyes and ears open for any new suggestions.

There are many possible causes for why your cat suffers with a bent leg joint. Arthritis is an apt term for it. I doubt that pregnenolone alone would help, but it would still be a useful part of a combination. If your cat is neutered or spayed, then some DHEA and progesterone can be added. The leg joint to get bent would mean it's developed over some time, so it would take a while to be relieved of it, if a solution is found.

Could there be calcification? Would magnesium and vitamin B6 help? Would this condition have come from a lack of some electrolytes in her diet over the years? My cats eat cooked fish, which is rich in magnesium, nnd calcium, but I have to add salt. Since the food is cooked, it would lack taurine, which is an essential amino acid for cats. I also add grated coconut meat to the food, for the oils. The potassium content also helps. But my cats are at most 3 years old, so I wouldn't know how well I'm taking care of them. But I've learned from the short lives of my previous cats. The oldest lived to only 9 years. So you're doing much better than me, and I should be learning from you.

Another possibility is infection. Drawing from my own experience with my body, I noticed when I took low-dose doxycycline, I lost my arthritic knee pain and my seborrheic dermatitis. Around this time my wbc and neutrophils were low, which indicates lower level of bacterial issues in my vascular system (I have plaque). When I test for higher wbc and neutrophils, I would also feel more arthritic pain. This made me think that there is a low-level inflammation ongoing, as well as more bacterial activity, and perhaps more mycoplasma bacteria would be harbored in the joints, and the pain would be the inflammation at work. You may want to try using Doxyvet on your cat, a brand of doxycycline for pets, and see how that goes over a period of 1 month.

Another thing I would check is your cat's flesh that's buried under its fur. Cats fight each other from time to time, and the claws get embedded under their skin. It can stay embedded and become a chronic infection. When I discovered one on my cat, pus had become so spread out that it had turned into a stringy green rope. In horrow I pulled out a long cord of it. It was then that I realized why my cat had developed a limp. It wasn't able to extract itself from a crevice where he normally would, and I had to rescue him with a bowline looped around his belly. That was a terrible chronic infection that had affected its nerves and made him paralyzed. It was hard to see him make himself upright on three legs. I wish I knew to use urea then, as it would have helped him heal. And I wouldn't have to run to the vet and give the cat strong antibiotics. It worsened his condition and a week later he died.

But a chronic infection needs to be considered. A low-level inflammation would be tolerable, but it would hasten the aging process in the cat. I would do a cbc blood test on the cat just to get an idea. It's not very expensive but being able to see the wbc and neutrophil count helps. The danger of doing the test is that a vet has to be involved, and the vet may offer to do more than what's necessary, and that could become detrimental for the cat.

I'm just throwing some ideas. They may not apply at all, and they only scratch the surface of possibilities. Hope they can help you in whatever small way they can. Good luck with your cat!
 

CrystalClear

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Thanks yerrag. Very sorry to read of the loss of your poor kitty. I had a somewhat similar experience with one of mine years ago. He died at age 8 1/2. It was heartbreaking and I had no knowledge of health and nutrition then.

I suppose I should be giving thought to more possibilities other than arthritis but it looks familiar. My first ever kitty had the same thing but she was older, 17 years. She got around ok, just not able to run. She died at age 19 1/2 and had no health issues to speak of most of her life.

I have another female kitty aged nearly 18 and she is a picture of health, Soft tangle free fluffy fur, bright eyes and still chases a ball. She was desexed after age 2 and having at least 2 litters. I rescued her and one of litters.

Vets and GP's have done their dash with me. I have been self managing health issues for the last 5 years. Where I live vets cost a fortune and blood tests for a cat is like $200 or more. If I needed antibiotics I have to pay the consultation fee plus the $40 - $50 for the tablets. Just too expensive. So food is my cats' medicine.

I heard haidut mention that the older studies from 1910 - c 1940 all showed the anti inflammatory effects of pregnenolone. That p. was used successfully for the treatment of a variety of inflammatory conditions such as r. arthitis, psoriasis, and even MS. (the youth steroids Gen En #8)

I can obtain pregnenolone fairly easily for a reasonable cost. Progesterone and DHEA are beyond my reach here in Australia. Supplements are getting more and more expensive for us and they've slapped on a gst for overseas purchases :(
 

tygertgr

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People with dogs and cats in urban and suburban environments are committing animal cruelty whether they surgically alter gonads or not.

People in cities with dogs, especially, are almost always mentally ill to some degree. You only see healthy relationships to dogs and cats in rural settings. They often don't allow the animals inside the actual home.
 

LUH 3417

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A little off topic but my cat suffers from cystitis and had bouts of peeing bloody urine all over the house. Last year I emailed ray about it and he sent me some studies on progesterone and confirmed it was safe for the cat. Since giving her a few drops of progestE last summer she’s only had one bout of cystitis the entire year that was quickly resolved with a more few drops of progesterone.
 

Jem Oz

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Neutering is a disgusting, barbaric act that puts human's desires above animal wellbeing. I'm certainly no vegan or animal rights nutter, but I know that one day people will look back at neutering with utter horror and contempt, and it will most certainly be outlawed. If we can't have pets in urban environments without them being neutered, then we simply can't have pets.
 

Terma

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* Waiting 1.5 years before getting female cat spayed seems to make healthy animal. Don't let it go forever for female cats, not as grey area as dogs, different animal. When they're grown. An honest or european vet might confirm this.
* Diet wet food 2-3x/day with dry food available
* Limit or no fish
* Magnesium chloride on skin = you are cat popsicle

Cat gets better every year. Got angry a total of 2 times in entire life, very social animal the rest. Was not that intelligent; now we have full (situational) conversations. Biggest health problem is teaching not to jump 7 feet down onto hard floors.
 

yerrag

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* Waiting 1.5 years before getting female cat spayed seems to make healthy animal. Don't let it go forever for female cats, not as grey area as dogs, different animal. When they're grown. An honest or european vet might confirm this.
* Diet wet food 2-3x/day with dry food available
* Limit or no fish
* Magnesium chloride on skin = you are cat popsicle

Cat gets better every year. Got angry a total of 2 times in entire life, very social animal the rest. Was not that intelligent; now we have full (situational) conversations. Biggest health problem is teaching not to jump 7 feet down onto hard floors.
What is your reason for avoiding fish? Is it mercury? Fish is high in magnesium. For me, frequent raw fish makes cat hyperthyroid. But cooking robs it of taurine, so I add taurine. Also, some raw fish has thiaminase, but upon cooking it is no longer present. Thiaminase destroy Thiamine. Smaller fish is better than large fish to minimize on mercury.

Also, I don't feed the frontal part of the fish - head and innards, to be sure I'm not giving too much thyroid. An occasional fresh fish wouldn't hurt, as cats love them.
 

Terma

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What is your reason for avoiding fish? Is it mercury? Fish is high in magnesium. For me, frequent raw fish makes cat hyperthyroid. But cooking robs it of taurine, so I add taurine. Also, some raw fish has thiaminase, but upon cooking it is no longer present. Thiaminase destroy Thiamine. Smaller fish is better than large fish to minimize on mercury.

Also, I don't feed the frontal part of the fish - head and innards, to be sure I'm not giving too much thyroid. An occasional fresh fish wouldn't hurt, as cats love them.
It was originally advice to avoid complications for female cats, ignored it but later noticed energy loss when feeding fish for several days to a week. If you use store wet food (my cat would not eat land meat from frozen/raw, has a taste for turkey, and got tired of fish herself) they are already supplemented with oils and omega-3 and where I am there was not a single brand without them and other garbage.
 

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