Describe How Dopamine And Serotonin Feel

[Frankdee20]

Yeah, I've heard that happen to other people. Tyrosine has not always been a positive experience for me either. It seems to induce crying spells in prolonged use, which is most likely a symptom of temporarily lowered serotonin

So let's assume it is from lowered Serotonin, then theoretically, if one pill caused intense agitation in me, isn't my Serotonin low ? See, this entire forum views Serotonin as evil, but isn't a little needed ? I can say my premature ejaculation was worsened with that Tyrosine. I must have low Serotonin, the GABA friendly supplements don't seem to help, or last long

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah, I've heard that happen to other people. Tyrosine has not always been a positive experience for me either. It seems to induce crying spells in prolonged use, which is most likely a symptom of temporarily lowered serotonin

So then, let's assume temporarily lowered Serotonin is to blame for the unpleasant issues users experience with Tyrosine. Theoretically, if one pill made me so internally agitated, isn't my Serotonin low ? See this is what I mean, we make Serotonin out to be this malefic, but low Serotonin can be bad too right ? The Tyrosine also worsened my premature ejaculation, this could also be an indication of lowered Serotonin. I try using only the GABA friendly supplements to combat my issues, I'm almost tempted to use Tryptophan. The other supplements don't have a lasting effect on my premature ejaculation, but they relax me enough during the day. I don't know anymore.

 

[Prosper]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to give a clear answer to that. Serotonin is beneficial in some parts of the body and less desirable in others.

 

[Arnold Grape]

5HTP makes me aggressive (much in line with what Peat talks about with serotonin). Tryptophan, knocks me out, resulting in deep sleep (makes my mood worse as well, though, and this drags on until the next day too - much like too much melatonin).

SSRIs, are a completely different ball game. They increase serotonin acutely, but might actually lower it with prolonged use. Their anti-depressive effects are probably not even related to their SRI mechanism. There are lots of studies on pubmed which show how they interact with the immune system and lower inflammation.

MDMA, and other similar drugs, are serotonin releasers. A whole world of difference to putting a serotonin precurser into your body (tryptophan, etc). But then, MDMA is also a dopamine/oxytocin releaser so it's effects are not down to serotonin release alone. MDAI, a research chemical, is a serotonin releaser and feels nothing like the magic of MDMA.

Serotonin and dopamine are two hormones in the body which can't really be defined by 'increasing/decreasing' their 'levels'. It's far more complex than that.

This is super-interesting to me, because I took St. John's Wort for more than 10 years and had positive effects from it, with none of the ostensible symptoms that are often associated with serotonin here. (e.g. Skin, hair or obvious metabolic problems.) The action of SJW is often talked about as performing an SSRI-type effect, but having recently dropped it, I was put in the position of trying to scramble to find something pro-metabolic to help me with depression symptoms and have found only Lysine to be similar in the way it makes me feel. That amino acid is often discussed in terms of how it dramatically lowers stress hormones (i.e. serotonin), but increases dopamine levels in the brain. I'm still just experimenting with Lysine, but this comment makes me feel like what SSRI's actually do and how serotonin is regulated is still a very murky, nebulous territory -- I'm also sort of surprised when people talk on an expert level about serotonin symptoms because it strikes me as fairly pedantic.

 

[Frankdee20]

This is super-interesting to me, because I took St. John's Wort for more than 10 years and had positive effects from it, with none of the ostensible symptoms that are often associated with serotonin here. (e.g. Skin, hair or obvious metabolic problems.) The action of SJW is often talked about as performing an SSRI-type effect, but having recently dropped it, I was put in the position of trying to scramble to find something pro-metabolic to help me with depression symptoms and have found only Lysine to be similar in the way it makes me feel. That amino acid is often discussed in terms of how it dramatically lowers stress hormones (i.e. serotonin), but increases dopamine levels in the brain. I'm still just experimenting with Lysine, but this comment makes me feel like what SSRI's actually do and how serotonin is regulated is still a very murky, nebulous territory -- I'm also sort of surprised when people talk on an expert level about serotonin symptoms because it strikes me as fairly pedantic.

This is interesting and I always read these posts from people blaming Serotonin this and that. Yet, how could they ever definitively say that it's high in one area of the brain, or one receptor is overactive? They can't. Now, to elucidate on your comment, SJW hits other neurotransmitters. Perhaps those other actions helped you. It's postulated to block the reuptake of Serotonin. Unlike a tryptophan or 5htp, which increases it via substrate. Even then, no guarantee if that extra 5ht will hit one receptor vs another or increase it in a desirable area vs another. Maybe the Lysine helps you by minimizing a specific 5ht receptor. I know about 17 years ago, I used the 5htp and experienced the worse somatic and psychological symptoms of my life. GI disturbances from 5htp releasing in the gut. Seriously horrific anxiety, physical pain, etc. Tryptophan did not effect me as profoundly as the 5htp. Idk. Then they put me on low dose Effexor and experienced eventually terrible negative reactions. It's a mystery as to why or what but it's taken me 8 years to recover. I would never mess with my Serotonin again as a result of that nightmare. These days I just do the calming GABA friendly nervines, and essential nutrients.

 

[ddjd]

Hey @Salmonamb I was thinking more about what you wrote in the other thread regarding Serotonin symptoms. I thought this thread might be better suited to the discussion. It occurred to me that methylene blue is a strong Serotonin antagonist and I don't always feel particularly socialable after taking it. The problem is with every substance as you say there are so many different neurotransmitters firing its very hard to identify specifically what Serotonin or Dopamine feel like. But I'm going to explore it more, your response got me pondering...

 

[rei]

Are you sure MB is serotonin antagonist? This is something i have never seen mentioned and kinda impossible since it is MAOI and can cause serotonin syndrome in combination with wrong food or medication.

 

[Hans]

Hey @Salmonamb I was thinking more about what you wrote in the other thread regarding Serotonin symptoms. I thought this thread might be better suited to the discussion. It occurred to me that methylene blue is a strong Serotonin antagonist and I don't always feel particularly socialable after taking it. The problem is with every substance as you say there are so many different neurotransmitters firing its very hard to identify specifically what Serotonin or Dopamine feel like. But I'm going to explore it more, your response got me pondering...

As far as I know, MB inhibits MAO-A in higher doses, which would increase serotonin, which might explain the anti-social feelings. Yes, it's hard to identify what does what when a lot of things might be elevated at the same time, and not just serotonin or dopamine. I think GABA is very good for relaxing and being more sociable.

 

[Regina]

When I first started to regain that deep feeling of love I fell head first into a grieving process over all that was previously lost. I also had to come to grips with being powerless to give that experience and feeling to others. It's our birthright yet we have to all come to reclaim it on our own. It's still hard to see others striving for it in ways that only compound the disconnect such as starvation diets, exhausting fitness regimens, plastic surgery, constant approval seeking and reinforcing authoritarian attitudes by selling their soul in an attempt to gain acceptance. I'll stop now! Hooray for low serotonin, estrogen and endotoxin!

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Dopamine feels like a zen-like peace, calm, no worries, confident and empowered to do anything I set my mind to with LOTS of creative energy.

I wouldn't have an idea about what a high dopamine state would feel like, however, when I'm drinking a Red Bull, I feel a glimpse of what you describe. Well, I think the Red Bull raises dopamine, if I'm correct.

 

[postman]

This is super-interesting to me, because I took St. John's Wort for more than 10 years and had positive effects from it, with none of the ostensible symptoms that are often associated with serotonin here. (e.g. Skin, hair or obvious metabolic problems.) The action of SJW is often talked about as performing an SSRI-type effect, but having recently dropped it, I was put in the position of trying to scramble to find something pro-metabolic to help me with depression symptoms and have found only Lysine to be similar in the way it makes me feel. That amino acid is often discussed in terms of how it dramatically lowers stress hormones (i.e. serotonin), but increases dopamine levels in the brain. I'm still just experimenting with Lysine, but this comment makes me feel like what SSRI's actually do and how serotonin is regulated is still a very murky, nebulous territory -- I'm also sort of surprised when people talk on an expert level about serotonin symptoms because it strikes me as fairly pedantic.

St John's Wort inhibits the reuptake of just about every neurotransmitter, it's also antinflammatory, and it makes the liver more efficent at detoxing poisons. I don't think it's a good substance for thinking about what serotonin is like or isn't like.

 

[Arnold Grape]

St John's Wort inhibits the reuptake of just about every neurotransmitter, it's also antinflammatory, and it makes the liver more efficent at detoxing poisons. I don't think it's a good substance for thinking about what serotonin is like or isn't like.

If SJW inhibits the uptake of serotonin, it seems like it would be tangentially related to describing the aforementioned feeling. What people may be distinguishing between, however, is the feeling of high serotonin in the brain vs. gut, which is more difficult to describe.

What is still confusing to me is why SJW is not regarded as a Peat-ish therapy? Having traveled far down the path of Peat protocols, I have to occasionally second guess stopping SJW in lieu of testosterone lowering substances or anti stress hormones, each of which are problematic in a major way.