Depression

Discussion in 'Mental Issues' started by Beebop, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. Beebop

    Beebop Member

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    I noticed there isn't a thread dealing specifically with depression and thought I'd start one. I'd like to hear about ways any of you have treated depression.

    I'd also like some advice about helping a dear friend with chronic depression/helplessness. I'm thinking of giving him pregnenolone.
    He also has Ulcerative Colitis, and sometimes excema and migraines. Clearly the gut and the mind are connected and serotonin must be the link.

    What diet/supplements need to be in place before pregnenolone is taken? Is there something I've missed?

    He eats carrot salad most days, (but this hasn't brought any noticeable relief), no/low PUFA and mostly-peatish everything else.

    Thanks :)
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Thyroid supplement. :2cents

    From personal experience. When my metabolism is low I am depressed and just hard to be happy about anything. I think thyroid supplement will give the quickest and best results. Just make sure he has a good diet to back it. Enough protein, plenty of carbs and good fat. Maybe throw in a little aspirin to but don't forget the K2.
     
  3. j.

    j. Guest

    Pregnenolone seems helpful but from online comments, it seems only some people react well to it. It seems that it should be given after thyroid supplementation has been optimized to increase the likelihood of pregnenolone working well.
     
  4. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Oh, and sunshine. And if you cannot get enough sunshine then copious amounts of red light. :mytwocents
     
  5. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Don't forget sugar for mixing with pregnelonone. Online comments don't necessarily reflect that.
     
  6. OP
    Beebop

    Beebop Member

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    Thanks Charlie, J, jyb. I am going to ask Dr Peat about aspirin and Ulcerative Colitis at some point.

    So thyroid before pregnenolone? Pregnenolone seems like an easier to control option! But I haven't tried it myself so I might be wrong...

    Because he physically appears to have a high metabolism (slender), thyroid seems counter-intuitive...
    Would you recommend thyroid glandular or a T3 only supplement?
     
  7. OP
    Beebop

    Beebop Member

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    How does the sugar work with pregnenolone?
     
  8. j.

    j. Guest

    and if you want to get sunshine, you can stay longer without burning if you have avoided PUFAs for years and beta carotene, or consume aspirin or fruits high in salicylic acid.
     
  9. jyb

    jyb Member

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    I only take it when my energy stores are full and with sugar and in a relaxed situation. I think of it like coffee, you can get stressed or shaky if you eat it without the energy required for a non-stressed metabolism.
     
  10. j.

    j. Guest

    I would take one 25mg pill for a few days and see what happens, but that's because I am willing to do something risky, it's not something I would suggest to other people.
     
  11. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Pregnenolone needs T3 to work good from what I gather with the study that j posted. However, some people respond good to it so it might be worth a shot upfront of the thyroid supplementing.

    I prefer glandular but Ray Peat prefers synthetic.

    Ray Peat took thyroid supplement to fix his hyperthyroid IIRC.

    Pregnenolone immediately boosts metabolism and will drain glycogen from the liver really fast which will then kick in the stress hormones. That's why you want to make sure to get plenty of sugar to mitigate the stress response.
     
  12. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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  13. OP
    Beebop

    Beebop Member

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    That's amazing. Different understanding of what hyperthyroid means... Where does he talk about this?

    Also, thanks for the temp charting link.
     
  14. OP
    Beebop

    Beebop Member

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    I was thinking of suggesting just one tablet, and if it is at all helpful, another a week later. But maybe that's just a maintenance dose and it's worth taking one a day for a few days initially?
     
  15. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    I think he said that in a radio interview. Not sure though. :( Maybe someone else remembers.
     
  16. juanitacarlos

    juanitacarlos Member

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    I wouldn't underestimate the role that T3/thyroid plays in depression. I had been suffering clinical depression on and off for my entire adult life. I've been on many antidepressants and taken illicit drugs also (self-medicating). I could never shake it - even when my life situation was super good, I still got depressed. Until something really strange happened. At the end of 2009 I had a thyroidectomy because of thyroid cancer and obviously immediately went on thyroid meds after the operation. Guess what? No depression. Not even an inkling. Something I've never been able to overcome through medication and oh-so-much therapy, counselling, groups etc, was gone in a flash. And it has not returned.

    So my advice to anyone suffering from depression is to get your thyroid panel checked. Obviously there are other reasons for suffering depression, but that is one simple thing I would focus on first.
     
  17. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    :eek Wow, that is some powerful personal testimony! This is almost exactly my story - and you've now convinced me to get off my hump and go get my thyroid tested. Good grief. My mother had hyperthyroidism in her 40s, you'd think I would have been smart and had mine checked a long time ago. :roll:

    I had no idea of the strong connection between thyroid and depression. It is so horrible - depression. Fortunately, I only once tried SSRIs and only took them for a short while. Talk about being the walking dead - freaking zombie. I dabbled in self medications as well, including supplementing tryptophan, 5HTP and St. John's Wort. :shootself

    I also self medicated with alcohol for years but stopped using that 20 years ago. Been trying to correct with nutrition ever since. Wow man! I've read Peat's articles on this numerous times but somehow ttramone's post struck me right between they eyes!

    Guess it's time to get over my reluctance to try a thyroid supp.
     
  18. juanitacarlos

    juanitacarlos Member

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    4peats - it's worth checking on just to even rule it out. If it's something that can help, it's worth looking in to.

    But like I said, I literally have been 'cured' of depression when I had my thyroid removed and went on meds. And I mean it was quick. The reason I went to the doctor who noticed the lump in my throat was because I wanted to go back on antidepressants! I was a mess and crying so much I could barely speak straight. I had quit my job because I was just not coping. Broke up with partner because of my depression. I was in a bad place. Then I go to the doc, she notices somethign, and within two weeks I'm operated on and wake up feeling fine. It has to mean something!

    And I completely understand what you mean about being a zombie on SSRI's. Perfect description! The worse thing about coming off SSRI's besides more depression is the brain zaps *shudder*. Never again...

    Let me know if I can help in any way :wave:
     
  19. OP
    Beebop

    Beebop Member

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    Ttramone, in hindsight, did you have any other thyroid symptoms at the time? Cold, fatigue? What thyroid supplements did they put you on?

    Do you think it was the removal of the gland that helped as much as the supplementation?
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    4peatssake let us know how you get on with the thyroid :)
     
  20. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    I do remember RP talking about hypothyroid people having a short period of hyperthyroid phase, which mostly results from enlargement and inflammation of thyroid gland. He suggested one can use liver or raw cabbage juice to suppress thyroid.
    People eventually return to hypothyroid state once the gland is done releasing extra hormones. I do not remember which interview was it. He also talked about misdiagnosis of hyperthyroid patients in this article

    "Stereotypes are important. When a very thin person with high blood pressure visits a doctor, hypothyroidism isn't likely to be considered; even high TSH and very low T4 and T3 are likely to be ignored, because of the stereotypes. (And if those tests were in the healthy range, the person would be at risk for the “hyperthyroid” diagnosis.) But remembering some of the common adaptive reactions to a thyroid deficiency, the catabolic effects of high cortisol and the circulatory disturbance caused by high adrenaline should lead to doing some of the appropriate tests, instead of treating the person's hypertension and “under nourished” condition. "

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/hy ... dism.shtml
     
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