Depression/Anxiety Caused By Systemic Inflammation?

[member 2106]

I came across this interesting article* today.

There's something appealing in the idea that awful things like depression, and potentially anxiety, could ultimately come down to inflammation caused by seed oils and such, perhaps because, if true, it should be a simple problem to overcome. Stop the inflammation.

Last night my dad cooked me a dinner fried in plentiful rapeseed oil, and I've been feeling really down today, with absolutely no reason to feel that way. It's just there, a feeling of doom and gloom, and I can't help but make the connection to last night's dinner (be that an inverse placebo effect or not).

Can anyone point to any good studies that shed light on this (potential) relationship? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It makes an awful lot of intuitive sense to me.

*I'm aware the article is flawed.

 

[sladerunner69]

I came across this interesting article* today.

There's something appealing in the idea that awful things like depression, and potentially anxiety, could ultimately come down to inflammation caused by seed oils and such, perhaps because, if true, it should be a simple problem to overcome. Stop the inflammation.

Last night my dad cooked me a dinner fried in plentiful rapeseed oil, and I've been feeling really down today, with absolutely no reason to feel that way. It's just there, a feeling of doom and gloom, and I can't help but make the connection to last night's dinner (be that an inverse placebo effect or not).

Can anyone point to any good studies that shed light on this (potential) relationship? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It makes an awful lot of intuitive sense to me.

*I'm aware the article is flawed.

Well are you certain the ominous feelings of doom aren't because of guilt tied with eating something you know is unhealthy? I know plenty of very happy individuals who eat really poor diets full of unsaturated fats. I am not convinced that diet has a huge impact on emotional health because I personally know very successful happy people who eat tons of junk food and beer and whiskey and do drugs. I think having a positive outlook and being confident and having a stimulating life(which is different for everyone) are the most important factors in depression, although I am ready to concede the bio-nutritional perspective against overwhelming evidence.

Can anyone provide some studies to argue against me?

 

[PeatThemAll]

@sladerunner69 I'm pretty sure your successful friends are extroverts. And that they don't bottle up the negativity in their lives. They get it out there. My point: they're not locking in energy/trauma, and all that extra available energy can be used in safeguarding their health vs the more questionable choices.

 

[member 2106]

Well are you certain the ominous feelings of doom aren't because of guilt tied with eating something you know is unhealthy? I know plenty of very happy individuals who eat really poor diets full of unsaturated fats. I am not convinced that diet has a huge impact on emotional health because I personally know very successful happy people who eat tons of junk food and beer and whiskey and do drugs. I think having a positive outlook and being confident and having a stimulating life(which is different for everyone) are the most important factors in depression, although I am ready to concede the bio-nutritional perspective against overwhelming evidence.

Can anyone provide some studies to argue against me?

I don't think depression and anxiety could ever be simply caused by inflammation from bad diet, although in my post I did appear to imagine this as a possibility for investigation. I must have been feeling particularly naive or hopeful when I drew that up. There's no way it could be so simple - as you point out, many people live a pro-inflammatory lifestyle and don't suffer mental disorders. At the same time, I suppose there could still be a causality of some sort, and that in some people an anti-inflammatory diet may be beneficial - it seems to be for me. But I tend to agree that diet isn't the only factor, and things like self-esteem or purpusefulness can be even more important.

 

[member 2106]

@sladerunner69 I'm pretty sure your successful friends are extroverts. And that they don't bottle up the negativity in their lives. They get it out there. My point: they're not locking in energy/trauma, and all that extra available energy can be used in safeguarding their health vs the more questionable choices.

This is very thought-provoking.

 

[PeatThemAll]

This is very thought-provoking.

Don't overthink it, though That and perfectionism are sound-good poison pills. Peter Levine's got some good,unique information and expertise on this (detailed in one of Xisca's posts).

 

[yomama]

I am not convinced that diet has a huge impact on emotional health because I personally know very successful happy people who eat tons of junk food and beer and whiskey and do drugs.

And you really think an individual who eat ***t and do drugs is a successful and happy person?

I think having a positive outlook and being confident and having a stimulating life(which is different for everyone) are the most important factors in depression

I never seen people with a positive outlook, confident and with a stimulating life eating ***t and taking drugs, usually is viceversa.

I am not convinced that diet has a huge impact on emotional health [...] Can anyone provide some studies to argue against me?

Not to be an **** but for what I see most people on this forum spend alot of time posting about what to eat to avoid physical and mental diseases...

 

[jyb]

Well are you certain the ominous feelings of doom aren't because of guilt tied with eating something you know is unhealthy? I know plenty of very happy individuals who eat really poor diets full of unsaturated fats. I am not convinced that diet has a huge impact on emotional health because I personally know very successful happy people who eat tons of junk food and beer and whiskey and do drugs. I think having a positive outlook and being confident and having a stimulating life(which is different for everyone) are the most important factors in depression, although I am ready to concede the bio-nutritional perspective against overwhelming evidence.

Can anyone provide some studies to argue against me?

The healthier you are, the more robust you are to problematic foods or habits. Simple right, healthier so more capability to recover. So many people can easily recover from eating junk food. They are able to extract value from food as it should be. For them, having a positive outlook and not caring about food may indeed lead to an overall healthier more stimulating life. However that is not the case for many on this forum. When you are unhealthy and the ability to recover is impaired, it is not difficult to see that food and habit choices could matter a lot more in the sense that you will notice the damage more easily and be more prone to it in the first place. If you get for example diabetes, I'm sure you will agree you will need to care a lot more about how proceed with food. But that is just one metabolic problem among others. Many healthy people never bother about food and have a metabolic health that possibly many on this forum will never be able to achieve despite avoiding pufa, but that does not mean it will help they go back to a more lax, conventional diet.

 

[Xisca]

I'm pretty sure your successful friends are extroverts. And that they don't bottle up the negativity in their lives. They get it out there. My point: they're not locking in energy/trauma, and all that extra available energy can be used in safeguarding their health vs the more questionable choices.

I loved this post... and then saw....

Don't overthink it, though That and perfectionism are sound-good poison pills. Peter Levine's got some good,unique information and expertise on this (detailed in one of Xisca's posts).

inflammation surely has something in common with depression etc,
Regulating the nervous system surely helps to regulatte physiology, and the body can handle more by itself when stress is low.
So that energy can be available to do its maintenance job.
Regulating with yoga etc is a good option, and something like somatic experiencing is detoxicating the nervous system the same way we can get rid of endotoxin!
So this is good in the long run. I know many who got rid of headaches, migraines and even asthma.

 

[yomama]

waldenpond, yes, inflammation is the mother of all evil, avoid it like the plague, if you know of something which promotes it so avoid that ***t, I did and that made a big difference for my health, same difference between night and day
next time try to fry using coconut oil, palm oil or in extremis extra virgin olive oil and you will see the difference

 

[member 2106]

waldenpond, yes, inflammation is the mother of all evil, avoid it like the plague, if you know of something which promotes it so avoid that ***t, I did and that made a big difference for my health, same difference between night and day
next time try to fry using coconut oil, palm oil or in extremis extra virgin olive oil and you will see the difference

I've been waaaay too neglectful of this until recently, and there is already a growing, palpable sense of low inflammation, which feels nice. My gut feels more settled than usual. Supposedly our mood can be intimately connected with our guts. I'll keep it up! Sounds like you are getting things right, good on you.

 

[TheHound]

I never seen people with a positive outlook, confident and with a stimulating life eating ***t and taking drugs, usually is viceversa.

guess you've never heard of Jordan Belfort?

 

[bdawg]

Good topic, I think the mainstream scientific community is finally pivoting from 'chemical imbalance' to maladaptive cortisol/inflammation judging from the wikipedia depression article.

Social isolation + lack of stimulating environment -> inflammation, pro-inflammatory diet -> inflammation, infection -> inflammation all leading to depression anxiety co-morbidity makes sense to me from an observable correlation

But that doesn't account for hereditary gene switches like GAD and social anxiety which might place a certain fraction of the population unable to handle environments that can be handled by the majority with no issues, ie it triggers their cortisol self-destruction whereas for most people it doesn't. Food allergies specific to whether you carry the gene or not work the same way

From wiki:

Other research has explored potential roles of molecules necessary for overall cellular functioning: cytokines. The symptoms of major depressive disorder are nearly identical to those of sickness behavior, the response of the body when the immune system is fighting an infection. This raises the possibility that depression can result from a maladaptive manifestation of sickness behavior as a result of abnormalities in circulating cytokines.[72] The involvement of pro-inflammatory cytokines in depression is strongly suggested by a meta-analysis of the clinical literature showing higher blood concentrations of IL-6 and TNF-α in depressed subjects compared to controls.[73] These immunological abnormalities may cause excessive prostaglandin E₂ production and likely excessive COX-2 expression. Abnormalities in how indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase enzyme activates as well as the metabolism of tryptophan-kynurenine may lead to excessive metabolism of tryptophan-kynurenine and lead to increased production of the neurotoxin quinolinic acid, contributing to major depression. NMDA activation leading to excessive glutamatergic neurotransmission, may also contribute.[74] A number of factors that increase inflammation have been linked to depression including a poor diet, smoking, and obesity.

 

[sladerunner69]

The healthier you are, the more robust you are to problematic foods or habits. Simple right, healthier so more capability to recover. So many people can easily recover from eating junk food. They are able to extract value from food as it should be. For them, having a positive outlook and not caring about food may indeed lead to an overall healthier more stimulating life. However that is not the case for many on this forum. When you are unhealthy and the ability to recover is impaired, it is not difficult to see that food and habit choices could matter a lot more in the sense that you will notice the damage more easily and be more prone to it in the first place. If you get for example diabetes, I'm sure you will agree you will need to care a lot more about how proceed with food. But that is just one metabolic problem among others. Many healthy people never bother about food and have a metabolic health that possibly many on this forum will never be able to achieve despite avoiding pufa, but that does not mean it will help they go back to a more lax, conventional diet.

Interesting but I would like to point out what appears to be an unavoidable apradox in your writing here: If one who is unhealthy cannot be healthy when eating junk food, then how are so many people feeling health when eating junk food? Can one become unhealthy through eating junk food or vice cersa? Is it just down to genetics? Dr. Peat has written against the idea that everyones biology is significantly or inherently different.

I think that the psychological component is stronger then you give it credit for. The mind can overcome intense adversity and this applies to shitty diets as well.

 

[mirc12354]

I think that the psychological component is stronger then you give it credit for. The mind can overcome intense adversity and this applies to shitty diets as well.

+1 Absolutely agree!!

 

[jyb]

Dr. Peat has written against the idea that everyones biology is significantly or inherently different.

He does say a poor metabolic condition can be passed on to your kids. To be honest I think that's fairly obvious, but that's a different point so let's leave it there. I think what you are saying is that whatever our condition we all share the same biologic inner works. That means the therapeutic solutions are quite general, like in his articles. That's ok, but if you do have a metabolic problem, the amount of discipline needed to overcome is significant if you look at his recommendations. For a lot of his recommendations, you have to go out of your way. And he does not say everything is reversible, but gives hope most problems can have their progression stopped with the right intervention. Ray gives strong credit to psychology but also a very strong credit for food... If you have serious metabolic problems (many on this forum), I think probably both psychology and food are important. But in some cases psychology alone doesn't seem, I don't think it is enough when you reach the late stage of metabolic problems, take for example diabetes. In fact even when using all possible tools that they can within the possibility of their environment (psychology and diet), many will probably never reverse their condition fully. In that situation every little helps, including diet.

 

[DaveFoster]

guess you've never heard of Jordan Belfort?

Because we should all emulate a sociopathic Jewish banker, who cons and profits from the loss of his clients. Truly the epitome of happiness.

 

[High_Prob]

Because we should all emulate a sociopathic Jewish banker, who cons and profits from the loss of his clients. Truly the epitome of happiness.

Wait, I thought he was just a sociopathic banker. Now, you're telling me he's a sociopathic banker and he's jewish? I..I..I am speechless