Depression And Fatigue

Discussion in 'iLoveSugar' started by iLoveSugar, Nov 7, 2014.

  1. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    How have you been?
     
  2. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    Hi guys, sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I have been quite sick of late. In regards to the B12, I have tried it in varying doses. I have tried methyl B12, and I have used a B complex. It has never done much for me.
     
  3. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    @amozniac

    All my issues started roughly 15 years ago, but I was still able to live life for the most part. Over the last two years, life has really become hell for me. Every day consist of just trying to get in the most comfortable position as I can, and try my damnedest to make it to bed. In regards to feeling better, that never happens. Maybe when I am laying on the beach, and playing in the water, but that is about it. And it is not practical to live my life like that. I feel bad all the time. Pretty much all day, and all evening is the same. Nothing at all helps. My diet is very Peaty. Pretty much all my macros and nutrients are covered. The main bulk of my diet is milk. I will Itterate though, that this has only been the main part of my diet for the last two or three months. These issues are much deeper than that. But I do get pretty much all of my macros and nutrients cover daily, roughly 3000 cal per day. I do usually feel best waking up, then it starts going downhill from there. Even if I don't eat for the first couple of hours, my issue still come on strong. However, eating does bring it on quicker. I have tried 1 million things, pretty much every rabbit hole. I was on SCD before Peat, and tried many different diets. The list is too long in regards to what I have tried. Pretty much everything. Yes to the extreme diets. Recent test? Yes, I have had many done. Any in particular that you were wondering about? thyroid tests were normal at first, besides reverse T3. I then started supplementing with thyroid, in varying doses and now my labs are all out of whack. Low T4, high T3. But I recognize them numbers could be faulty due to current supplementation. Bowel movements absolutely suck. I go daily, and have the urge to go, but they are always dry and bloody. I also have very bad stomach cramping. My digestion is my longest known symptoms, and it is terrible. I have had nine colonoscopies and I am only 29 years old. They just say colitis and proctitis. I have tried magnesium, cascara, and all the regulars for this. Nothing seems to help. Carrot ihurts my stomach, bamboo shoots does also. Hair growth is very slow, and my hair is very dry. I pretty much keep my head shaved all times as it is very poor quality. Medications? Just about everyone known to man. My skin is decent, except for my face where I have huge rashes on each side like roseaca, chronic dark circles under my eyes that are getting worse, and read pettachie all over. Not really any cravings. The only cravings I would say would be mashed potatoes, pizza, and things that I should not have. I do eat potatoes occasionally, but it usually hurts my stomach. My teeth are so so. Could be better, definitely could be worse. No hunger, I ear whenever I feel hungry. Well, I drink it lately. Digestion sucks with just about everything. I have yet to find a good food, or I would focus on it only.
     
  4. tara

    tara Member

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    Given that you've tried so many other things, and say you are ingesting reasonable nutrients, I wonder if it would be worth seeing if you can improve on this, and whether it makes a difference?

    Constant hyperventilation, which it sounds like you are doing if you are always mouth-breathing, have breath-hunger, etc. can contribute to many of the issues that you have described.
    No matter how good your nourishment, if your cells are hypoxic from CO2 deficit, that is a continuous stress on your system. That can definitely cause frozen hands and feet, slowed digestion, high adrenaline, anxiety, fatigue, dizziness, hypersensitive nerves - more pain, blocked nose, to name some of the issues you've mentioned, and many more ...
    Ideally, you want to raise your metabolism and produce more CO2 in your cells. But for that to be happening reliably you need functioning digestion. Digestion can't function properly while you are hyperventilating.

    When you hyperventilate, the nasal passages swell and produce more mucous, possibly in a futile attempt to reduce your breathing - futile because you get around it by breathing through your mouth. I wouldn't have believed it till I tried it, but I now have now tried it through 3-4 colds when my nose has go thoroughly blocked. I taped my mouth shut before going to sleep. I felt like I was suffocating for a couple of minutes - which was horrible, but I figured if it got unbearable I could pike out. It got close to unbearable. But then my nose cleared and I could breath easier than I had been, and kept the tape on, breathing through my nose most of the night. When my hyperventilation gat too bad, I couldn't close my mouth because the air-hunger was too stressful. What helped then was getting up and doing things - moving gently and focusing on other things - I guess the movement got a bit of CO2 production going. And then I could close my mouth and calm down.
    Whether or not you try that particular method, I encourage you to persist with trying some techniques for retaining CO2. Bag-breathing for as long as is reasonably comfortable, even with your mouth open, many times a day.
    Really practice keeping your mouth shut as much as you can. Practice keeping your chest still and breathing with your diaphragm. I strapped up my chest a couple of times to activate my diaphragm and interrupt the chest-breathing habit - there are other methods, but this way was easy for me.
    I'm expect it will take more than breathing exercises to get yourself as well as you want, but addressing your hyperventilation habits may be a necessary step to getting the rest of your metabolism humming.
    If you are in a position to get a dry CO2 bath, you could see if that helps.

    I found normalbreathing.com informative. There are other approaches to slowing breathing too.
     
  5. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    Thanks a bunch for the reply. I really suspected that may be an issue, so I upped and moved across the USA to Colorado, and now live at 7,000 feet. I've been here for about 2 months. Problems only have gotten worse. Shouldn't that have really helped? What is a dry c02 bath? I have a sp02 reader and it's typically between 95-98.
     
  6. tara

    tara Member

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    Being adapted to altitude has some advantages. I wonder if already having chronic hyperventilation makes one more vulnerable to altitude sickness, and makes it harder to adapt? This is speculation, I don't know much about altitude.
    I think the spO2 reading shows that the haemoglobin is close to saturated with oxygen - or carbon monoxide if you've had recent exposure - the meter can't tell the difference - but most likely it's O2. In order fro the haemoglobin to let go of the O2 so it can get into the tissues and cells where it is needed, there needs to be enough CO2 around. If particular cells are producing good amounts of CO2, that helps release the O2 near those cells. If the cells are not producing CO2, you can have 100% O2 saturation in your blood, but it can't let go of the blood and get into the cells that need it. Cells that don't get enough oxygen don't function as efficiently as we want.
    I don't think commercial CO2 baths are very common. After reading about Peat and Peatarian (former poster here) doing DIY dry CO2 baths, I gave it a go. I haven't done it enough to be able to tell if it helps my issues.
    Here's my report: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3503&start=30#
    There are clinics, and some hospitals that use it - it has been shown to be helpful for cardiovascular disease amongst other conditions. I mentioned it just in case you happen to have such a clinic in your location.
     
  7. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    I definitely feel like hyperventilation is a big concern for me. Question. Could it cause chronic issues that completely debilitate me? How does one know for certain if it is an issue? Any tests? Bag breathing has never done much for me. My nose is so chronically stuffed, it's hard to breathe out of my nose, hence the reason for always mouth breathing.
     
  8. lindsay

    lindsay Member

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    @iLoveSugar: Have you ever taken an antibiotic for any length of time?? If yes, what effects did it bring? If no, have your doctors never suggested it with your digestive problems??
     
  9. tara

    tara Member

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    I have had periods in my life when I had constantly blocked nose, and breathed through my mouth. I have now learned that breathing through my mouth may have caused the blocked nose.

    I believe it can be debilitating, in conjunction with the other metabolic processes. My main source of info was Rakhimov's normalbreathing site, which describes Buteyko method, but there are others. Buteyko was a doctor who figured out he could turn around seriously ill patients by teaching them to breath less, along with some dietary and other factors. At one stage he ran a small hospital, taking only patients that the rest of the medical system had nothing more to offer and had given up on them. I think he only lost one of those patients - the rest were able to walk out. I don't think the whole Buteyko method is an easy process, but I think it has real potential.

    I got noticable benefit from a few of the easier techniques, and made some attempts have not pushed hard on the rest of it. I retrained nasal breathing, diaphragmatic breathing, and learned to hold my breath after any time I cough, sneeze, or yawn. When I'm in the car, or waiting for something, I practice calming my breath, sometimes using exercises.

    I had a couple of experiences of triggering migraines by trying some of the reduced breathing exercises, which is a known hazard for migraineurs. Intensive practice of the exercises can also set off panic attacks in people prone to them. If you have diabetes, there are some possible complications. My guess is it may be useful to check that your system is not too acidic before pushing the exercises far. Peat has said 24 hr UpH should ideally be between 6.3 - 6.7. Buteyko method, as well as Peat, emphasise importance of alkaline minerals like calcium. If I've understood it right, hyperventilating can cause respiratory alkalosis. If this is countering metabolic acidosis, then reducing breathing can result in a shift to the acid.

    The standard test in Buteyko method is the control pause. You can get a better description on that site, but basically you time how long you can hold your breath at rest after a gentle outbreath before you get that first involuntary impulse to breath. In really good health, it can be ~40 seconds. 25s is not bad. less that 10 seconds indicates serious ill health.

    There are a few places where Rakhimov's description of Buteyko method seems to be incompatible with Peat's ideas (eg he promotes fish oil). I think these contradictions probably result from a misunderstanding that anything that increases the control pause is good. Lowering metabolism can result in longer breath holds, and that is not what we want. But the basic idea of increasing CO2 by controlling breath seems compatible with Peat's view on CO2.

    There are a few teachers around who are trained in Buteyko method. There are other people who use other methods to help people retrain breathing. Pranayama is another method of controlling breath. I don't know if you would find any helpful teachers near you.
     
  10. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    Yes, I have taken 50 mg Minocycline for 2 weeks at a time, but it aggravates my dizziness so bad that I have to stop.
     
  11. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    My is definitely under 10 seconds for holding breath.
     
  12. tara

    tara Member

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    That confirms it's a significant issue, though your description was already pretty clear.
    If you want to pursue Buteyko method, you can see if you can find a teacher or class near you and/or try following the instructions at normalbreathing (http://www.normalbreathing.com/learn.php) and/or see if you can get Patrick McKeown's books and/or or hunt out video lessons. I would follow Peatish eating over Buteyko diet, though they have some areas of similarity.
     
  13. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    A lot of illnesses start in the gut. You can have a severe dysbiosis and even eating 3000 cal/d can be feeding pathogens and infections. As a consequence, malnourishment, and then fatigue. Your feeling of hopelessness may be a lack in neurotransmitters that are manufactured in the intestines. Your brain could be inflamed since your intestinal barrier could be working improperly, leading to a leaky blood-brain barrier.
    Your gut rests considerably at night (while sleeping). The truce you experience after waking up could be that.
    Usually around 18:00 and post meals are the worst times regarding the gut, it's when microorganisms are most active.
    When you crave, you crave starch, which is a very desirable food for pathogens. When we have an infection in the intestines, it's not uncommon to crave the foods that will feed those pathogens.
    Your skin issues can be due to malnourishment and inflamation.
    Seems like you tried a lot but have you considered/tried a fecal transplant?
    If it was me, I would work from there..
    It's a desperate resource but if done properly, relatively low risk and with a lot of potential.
     
  14. tara

    tara Member

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    This seems theoretically like a reasonable possibility, though with risks. I've read one or two stories of remarkable recovery from life-sapping C. difficile infections. How would one pick a suitable donor with good intestinal biota? What method of transplant would you be considering?
    I guess a course of suitable antibiotics would give a good idea if this was the key issue? Ilovesugar, I can't remember if you have done pharmaceutical or herbal anti-biotics before, and what happened?
     
  15. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Hi Tara!
    Like I said, this is a desperate measure because I honestly don't think small tweaks will improve his life considerably. I can be wrong and maybe there is one thing that's missing, that he haven't tried that will do the change, but he seems to have done a lot..
    Of course it has to be done under the supervision of a reliable doctor and test the donor for diseases, infections, etc. Even if the person seems very healthy outside.
    By himself would be the last option. Ideally should be done with a doctor. Taking a strong antibiotic for a given time and then transplanting. Better without surgery. Trying to deliver in a capsule to reach the intestines.
     
  16. johns74

    johns74 Member

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    if you haven't tried high dose vitamin e, try it before fecal transplant (which I wouldn't personally do. if the intestine is permeable, i don't think the transplant cures that.)
     
  17. pboy

    pboy Member

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    fecal transplant...LOL ...you guys are way out tripping if you even consider that as an option. Taking someone elses ***t and literally putting it inside you? The point of your senses and intellect is to avoid other peoples ***t...dude I cant believe that is even a real thing and people don't just immediately laugh when they hear it. Can you imagine telling your kids that you had a fecal transplant? LOL ( I literally am laughing, and they would too)
     
  18. LucyL

    LucyL Member

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    Do you have kids pboy? I'm guessing not, or you would know that children conduct "fecal transplants" regularly. I'll never forget the day I turned around and my 1 year old was holding a dog-log like it was a breadstick. Yes, there was a bite missing.

    Dogs, cats, farms etc are good for kids for this very concept. Our sterile society has come up with some convoluted ways to get the benefits of a teeming environment. I'm not sure I would go down the human transplant method path though. I think a vacation on a dude ranch where you never wash your hands might be better.
     
  19. pboy

    pboy Member

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    that's because they eat and taste everything at a young age to know if its food or not, even toys and anything around...im sure after one bite theyd never go back again
     
  20. jyb

    jyb Member

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    That's been making the news for years, just fyi. And one reason is that it is allegedly much more effective than usual medical options.

    I don't think its too surprising as an idea. We've heard of probiotics for years too. We also know that the gut contains a very heavy amount of bacteria. Since commercial probiotics/yogurts are said to be useless because they contain trivial quantities, transplanting that bulk of bacteria seems natural. But I'm not sure how it compares to a heavy consumption of properly fermented dairy. The transplant thing allegedly works in emergencies and with fast results.
     
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