Depression And Fatigue

[iLoveSugar]

Feeling pretty hopeless right now. Extremely depressed and tired all day. I talked with RP about diet for a little while, and I went on a pure milk/sugar/salt diet. I am not blaming this, because I felt this way before.

Very desperate right now as life all but sucks.

1) Very faint all day and wobbly
2) Very fatigued, even after 10 hours of sleep per night.
3) Depressed about feeling like I will NEVER get better

 

[haidut]

Feeling pretty hopeless right now. Extremely depressed and tired all day. I talked with RP about diet for a little while, and I went on a pure milk/sugar/salt diet. I am not blaming this, because I felt this way before.

Very desperate right now as life all but sucks.

1) Very faint all day and wobbly
2) Very fatigued, even after 10 hours of sleep per night.
3) Depressed about feeling like I will NEVER get better

I don't know if anyone has asked you this before, but have you had a continuous test of your stress hormones? Particularly, cortisol and adrenalin? There is a method of measuring 24h variation of the change in the stress response. If you have exaggeratedly high stress response, your digestive system simply will not work no matter what food you eat and how Peaty it is. Simply put, as long as cortisol is high beyond a certain point you will NOT digest food but will rather continue to break down muscle tissue and convert it into glucose. To make matters worse, under high cortisol conditions whatever food you do eat may stress you even more since the body will work harder to get rid of the "toxins", which is what it will perceive food to be under stress.
If your stress hormones are chronically high and show little change over a 24h period then it is probably time to talk to your doctors about medication that blocks both adrenalin and cortisol. Blocking both hormones can be dangerous and should only be done under doctor supervision, but if the stress hormones turn out to be the problem then the medication is a possible solution and can be done fairly quickly, normalizing digestion in as quickly as one week.
Not that I am suggesting it, but I also know of people who were starved/stressed for a long time and had to be sedated to control the stress response and fed IV for several days before things can normalize for them to eat on their own. One of the most significant effects of the chronic and high stress response is hyponatremia caused by deranged renin-aldosterone system. That system for some people can be so deranged that only IV sodium can bring levels back to normal and has to be done slowly over a period of several days to avoid brain damage. Without sodium, you will also not be able to absorb magnesium and that will simply prevent normal function of digestion and nervous system.
Anyways, just throwing things out there.

 

[natedawggh]

Hey Sugar,

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but again, no one can help out with such vague symptoms, and without any specific lab results, supplement regimen information, and diet information. Why don't you make a legible list (and not only of what you are doing recently), sectioned by hormone results, vitamin levels, mineral levels, and symptoms so that we can help figure out what exactly is going wrong, instead of just feeling sorry for you.

 

[haidut]

Hey Sugar,

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but again, no one can help out with such vague symptoms, and without any specific lab results, supplement regimen information, and diet information. Why don't you make a legible list (and not only of what you are doing recently), sectioned by hormone results, vitamin levels, mineral levels, and symptoms so that we can help figure out what exactly is going wrong, instead of just feeling sorry for you.

I think there are several other threads where Sugar posted specific symptoms and maybe even lab results. I have seen posts going back several months describing specific symptoms and things Sugar tried based on advice from forum members and/or Peat. I posted the thing about stress hormones b/c I have mentioned to Sugar in the past about maybe asking a doctor for drugs like clonidine to restrain the strese response. It seems that the one recurring generic symptom is that no matter what Sugar eats there is no change in temperature, heart rate, blood pressure, bowel movements or subjective responses like anxiety. The only cases where I have heard of something like this happening is in starvation experiments or people recovering from shock where 24h cortisol stays unchanged and as high as it is at 9am in the morning (the highest level). The body simply refuses to let cortisol go down out of fear that the brain will not be getting enough glucose even in the presence of food.
Just my 2c.

 

[johns74]

Have you tried vitamin E, maybe the doses haidut once suggested, grams a day? 4spectrum is one brand many like.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Thanks for the suggestion. Trying to find a doctor in the USA to help with that seems like the absolute impossible. If starving for a bit helped, I would do it. I also tried propronolol twice, and didn't notice anything. I have every hypothyroid symtom also, but thyroid meds don't help.

 

[johns74]

I wonder if ketones would be good for brain energy. I sometimes have half a teaspoon of Now Foods MCT oil with coca cola. It has good effects. MCT oil easily produces ketones. I sometimes feel bad if I take more than half a teaspoon, so be careful and don't tak a lot.

I don't have MCT oil with a meal, etc., because the meal typically triggers insulin secretion, and so does the MCT oil, and the combination reduces blood sugar too much.

 

[iLoveSugar]

I haven't tried E, except what is in Progest E. I take large doses of that occasionally.

 

[johns74]

I haven't tried E, except what is in Progest E. I take large doses of that occasionally.

I suggest you try. It's fairly safe. Try grams per day of a high-gamma supplement, such as 4spectrum. It can give you crazy salt cravings, be prepared with non-iodized salt to satisfy your cravings, and reduce your dose if that happens.

The idea to take grams of vitamin E is not something to do permanently I think, people at peatarian reported discomfort after a while. So a few days or a few weeks.

 

[natedawggh]

I haven't tried E, except what is in Progest E. I take large doses of that occasionally.

That should be enough to help, so if it doesn't then it's probably not going to (although some people can benefit from very high doses of E, it's not going to cure very difficult issues).

Have you ever had any Vitamin B injections? I just found out that one of the complications of hypothyroidism is a B12 deficiency. I was surprised because I had taken a general B supplement before, but it definitely wasn't absorbing because I felt the effects of the B12 shot, and if I'd been replete with B12 I wouldn't have felt any different. Also, if you're out of B12 and having digestive issues, you're very unlikely to get any or even enough from a normal diet. I used to have Celiac disease as well and that definitely interferes with B12 absorption, permanently. Your body also must have T3 in order to absorb and process B12, and in a related process metabolize carotene, so the other problem from being hypothyroid and B12 deficient is a build up of carotene, which is just as harmful as Iron.

 

[johns74]

That should be enough to help, so if it doesn't then it's probably not going to (although some people can benefit from very high doses of E, it's not going to cure very difficult issues).

Assuming Progest-E has a good amount of vitamin E, I'm not sure it has the right types. Do you know for a fact it contains gamma tocopherol?

it's not going to cure very difficult issues

I think that can vary from person to person.

 

[tca300]

Sounds like a protein deficiency to me, I know because I went through the same thing for about 4 years, until it got so bad that I tried to kill myself

 

[answersfound]

Feeling pretty hopeless right now. Extremely depressed and tired all day. I talked with RP about diet for a little while, and I went on a pure milk/sugar/salt diet. I am not blaming this, because I felt this way before.

Very desperate right now as life all but sucks.

1) Very faint all day and wobbly
2) Very fatigued, even after 10 hours of sleep per night.
3) Depressed about feeling like I will NEVER get better

I don't know if anyone has asked you this before, but have you had a continuous test of your stress hormones? Particularly, cortisol and adrenalin? There is a method of measuring 24h variation of the change in the stress response. If you have exaggeratedly high stress response, your digestive system simply will not work no matter what food you eat and how Peaty it is. Simply put, as long as cortisol is high beyond a certain point you will NOT digest food but will rather continue to break down muscle tissue and convert it into glucose. To make matters worse, under high cortisol conditions whatever food you do eat may stress you even more since the body will work harder to get rid of the "toxins", which is what it will perceive food to be under stress.
If your stress hormones are chronically high and show little change over a 24h period then it is probably time to talk to your doctors about medication that blocks both adrenalin and cortisol. Blocking both hormones can be dangerous and should only be done under doctor supervision, but if the stress hormones turn out to be the problem then the medication is a possible solution and can be done fairly quickly, normalizing digestion in as quickly as one week.
Not that I am suggesting it, but I also know of people who were starved/stressed for a long time and had to be sedated to control the stress response and fed IV for several days before things can normalize for them to eat on their own. One of the most significant effects of the chronic and high stress response is hyponatremia caused by deranged renin-aldosterone system. That system for some people can be so deranged that only IV sodium can bring levels back to normal and has to be done slowly over a period of several days to avoid brain damage. Without sodium, you will also not be able to absorb magnesium and that will simply prevent normal function of digestion and nervous system.
Anyways, just throwing things out there.

could cyproheptadine be an option for her situation? high doses of aspirin?

 

[iLoveSugar]

I'm a him, but no worries. Cyphrophetadine makes me incredibly tired, even at the smallest of dose. Currently getting about 100-125
G of protein per day.

 

[robertf]

I read some of your posts, though probably not enough. Bloating seems to be tied into the depression.

Get some powdered ginger, or those sugared ginger candies that are made of just ginger and sugar. Have about 1-2 teaspoons of ginger powder in sugar water or sweet juice. try one first, if no effect then two, etc. shoot for 3-4 doses per day. The candies, take about a 2-3 heaping tablespoons per dose, same deal if there is no effect take another dose.

If it was me and the meds didn't work I would stop, and stop everything that is not working. Start from a baseline of the simplest things that work or are neutral and then add in anything new one at a time.

You might also try a giant dose of of very good quality ripe sweet fresh-pressed pineapple juice, say about 1 quart.

How is your weight, over or under?

 

[Such_Saturation]

"Some fruits, including bananas, pineapples, and tomatoes, contain enough serotonin to produce
physiological effects in susceptible people."

Source: Serotonin Newsletter March 2011

 

[aquaman]

I read some of your posts, though probably not enough. Bloating seems to be tied into the depression.

Get some powdered ginger, or those sugared ginger candies that are made of just ginger and sugar. Have about 1-2 teaspoons of ginger powder in sugar water or sweet juice. try one first, if no effect then two, etc. shoot for 3-4 doses per day. The candies, take about a 2-3 heaping tablespoons per dose, same deal if there is no effect take another dose.

You might also try a giant dose of of very good quality ripe sweet fresh-pressed pineapple juice, say about 1 quart.

These are meant to be bloating cures?

 

[robertf]

ginger can increase stomach motility, break up gas, as act as general anti-pathogenic and anti-inflammatory. If you put some ginger powder in a glass of carbonated water you will see how effective it can be.

The pineapple idea was just a stab in the dark that he has some parasite thing going on. They can make you feel as he described and cause horrible bloating.

 

[Amazoniac]

Hi!

You have a lot of posts logging your struggles, maybe it would be helpful to condense all of your current struggles in a single post, rather than splitted. A lot of people will give you suggestions but you have to be objective and simple, I know it's hard. Maybe you could post it here!? But detail everything..

Some examples:

When it all started?
When you feel better?
When you feel worse?
How is your diet and lifestyle?
How do you feel after fasting, meals and upon waking up?
What have/haven't you tried?
Have done in the past any extreme diet?
Recent tests?
Bowel movements frequency and quality?
Hair growth?
Medications and supplements taken?
How is your skin, eyes, tongue and nails?
What made you improve and what made things worse?
How long do you feel these symptoms?
Any cravings? When?
Teeth?
Hunger or lack of it?
Problems with digestion? Problems with a whole class of foods? Isolated?
And so on..

Consider the ones that are (or seem) healthy doing the opposite that you do.
Keep looking for a great doctor but don't dismiss your own research..

ps.: Sent you a PM.

 

[Poppyseed13]

I will second natedawggh's suggestion for trying B-12---but I will go a step further and suggest Methyl B-12 (methylcobalamin). I use Solgar's Methyl B-12. Some people cannot metabolize regular B-12 (cobalamin)---the old MTHFR polymorphisms. Anyway, I had a great boost in energy from taking Methyl B-12 --and this is after a year of tinkering with my Thiroyd dosage.

Cheers,
Poppyseed13