Depo-Provera Sux

[alywest]

Has any other woman on this forum taken Depo-Provera? Or should I say, gotten an injection of it? And if so, has it screwed up your life?

Apparently while on Depo, you can experience some issues from lowered estrogen and progesterone, however the fun and games don't really start until after the Depo stops.

That's when the body goes into crazy mode and starts making estrogen like there's no tomorrow, and yet somehow forgets to make any progesterone to balance it out. Fun times!

Some of the fun side effects that you may experience: mood swings, extremely heavy menstrual flow, no menstruation at all, extremely sore breasts, relationship issues (hmmm I wonder why?)

This web page:
Stopping Depo-Provera: Why and what to do about adverse experiences - Society for Menstrual Cycle Research

Has a somewhat informative interview and the doc advises taking ibuprofin if you're having a heavy flow day. (Obviously I would substitute that with aspirin!)
She also recommends taking progesterone.

Another interesting thing mentioned was using an over the counter fertility test to figure out when to take progesterone:

"start checking for your urinary LH peak (with a fertility kit you can buy over the counter) in the evening when you notice stretchy vaginal mucus."

It makes me wonder how many of the women here have wound up in this forum because of taking this progestin-based birth control?

And I also have to wonder if Depo completely lowers estrogen, if you are never planning to have kids would it be a good thing to do and then replenish with plenty of Progesterone as prescribed by Ray Peat?

Thoughts?

 

[wild-bee]

I had one dose in my late teens and felt very low, crying over the slightest thing like bad pms so didn't go back for another shot. 10 years later those emotional symptoms were no longer confined to my period and I thought I was going crazy but progesterone cream brought me back to 'normal' after using it for a year - I now use the cream as contraception so far so good

 

[alywest]

I had one dose in my late teens and felt very low, crying over the slightest thing like bad pms so didn't go back for another shot. 10 years later those emotional symptoms were no longer confined to my period and I thought I was going crazy but progesterone cream brought me back to 'normal' after using it for a year - I now use the cream as contraception so far so good

That's great! I'm glad that you didn't do depo again after the first time. I was not the most observant person and had the shot (repeatedly) twice, once before I had kids and once after my second child. By the time that left my system and I stopped getting shots I was so depressed they put me on Zoloft! So that really helped (dripping with sarcasm) and then I was also hypothyroid so I was put on levothyroxine!!! A great combo. Pretty much as bad as it gets.

Have you ever heard of the Justisse system for birth control? It's like the rhythm method in that you chart your monthly cycle stages based on mucus quality and don't have sex when you are ovulating.

 

[wild-bee]

That's great! I'm glad that you didn't do depo again after the first time. I was not the most observant person and had the shot (repeatedly) twice, once before I had kids and once after my second child. By the time that left my system and I stopped getting shots I was so depressed they put me on Zoloft! So that really helped (dripping with sarcasm) and then I was also hypothyroid so I was put on levothyroxine!!! A great combo. Pretty much as bad as it gets.

Have you ever heard of the Justisse system for birth control? It's like the rhythm method in that you chart your monthly cycle stages based on mucus quality and don't have sex when you are ovulating.

I have heard of similar systems and look forward trying it when I don't have a full time partner, right now I don't like the idea of abstinence rules but mainly don't want to go two weeks without the cream. If I felt ok without the cream I'd try a cap so that bare sex when ovulating was possible! in a close relationship zero sex when ovulating sounds crap

Seems like the fake hormone drugs **** you up in the end, my grandma has Addisons and took cortisone for 40 years which has weakened her bones. Did you ever sort your thyroid? Do you use progesterone also?

Interesting thought on completely replenishing progesterone - it's very expensive? I have to use a lot in the luteal phase - as well as avoid any estrogenic herbs, otherwise I get my period early.

 

[alywest]

I have heard of similar systems and look forward trying it when I don't have a full time partner, right now I don't like the idea of abstinence rules but mainly don't want to go two weeks without the cream. If I felt ok without the cream I'd try a cap so that bare sex when ovulating was possible! in a close relationship zero sex when ovulating sounds crap

Seems like the fake hormone drugs **** you up in the end, my grandma has Addisons and took cortisone for 40 years which has weakened her bones. Did you ever sort your thyroid? Do you use progesterone also?

Interesting thought on completely replenishing progesterone - it's very expensive? I have to use a lot in the luteal phase - as well as avoid any estrogenic herbs, otherwise I get my period early.

Supposedly there is a short time that you actually have to actually abstain, like one week, because after a day of ovulating you go into the luteal phase during which you're not in danger of getting pregnant (supposedly~you can check out the website Fertility FAQs - Justisse For Women ) I agree about progesterone cream being expensive, though, it's a lifesaver. I use the progest-e type stuff that is dissolved in vitamin e and MCT oil and I rub in my gums. I don't use it for birth control.

I added a t3 supplement for my thyroid (tyronene) and still using levothyroxine. The most challenging thing right now is getting my liver and gut back in good health! I'm also really watching out for calcium intake as the Depo apparently also messes with your ability to absorb calcium and vitamin D!

 

[alywest]

Yeah, I just reread the website, as long as cervical mucus is present the sperm can actually live in it until ovulation occurs, so several days before you ovulate you are actually able to store sperm! The Justisse system teaches you how to track it and to test the mucus so you can tell if you're uterus will be able to keep sperm alive.

 

[catan]

I take my temperature upon waking and chart it with a fertility app. That and other signs like egg white cervical mucus would give you a pretty good idea when you ovulate. I’ve been doing this for a year now and it gives you a lot of information, whether or not you do ovulate, length of literal phase, etc. in healthy cycles the temperature shift is very obvious. I take progest-e after ovulation. Tracking has also gotten me to pay attention to the quality of my mucus and libido. The better I feel, the stretcher and more copious the mucus.

This also means a higher sex drive in the days leading up to ovulation, so abstaining during that period isn’t always realistic!

Knowing that I’m only fertile for some days of the month I don’t see the need for hormonal birth control...

 

[alywest]

I take my temperature upon waking and chart it with a fertility app. That and other signs like egg white cervical mucus would give you a pretty good idea when you ovulate. I’ve been doing this for a year now and it gives you a lot of information, whether or not you do ovulate, length of literal phase, etc. in healthy cycles the temperature shift is very obvious. I take progest-e after ovulation. Tracking has also gotten me to pay attention to the quality of my mucus and libido. The better I feel, the stretcher and more copious the mucus.

This also means a higher sex drive in the days leading up to ovulation, so abstaining during that period isn’t always realistic!

Knowing that I’m only fertile for some days of the month I don’t see the need for hormonal birth control...

My estrogen is so out of whack that I actually take progesterone all month long. Actually, this was the first month that I was able to not use it for one week (the week before I ovulated.) Do you use the progest-e as birth control or just as a supplement?

 

[SQu]

alywest, there's a thread or a post somewhere here about taking gelatin, i think it is about 54g (bit vague on exact amount but have found that it doesn't matter exactly, thereabouts will do) to slow / stop overly heavy / long flow. works like a bomb. i use it monthly.

 

[alywest]

alywest, there's a thread or a post somewhere here about taking gelatin, i think it is about 54g (bit vague on exact amount but have found that it doesn't matter exactly, thereabouts will do) to slow / stop overly heavy / long flow. works like a bomb. i use it monthly.

Thanks SQu! I think I need to scout out some more info about estrogen dominance, there is just so much information on this forum that sometimes I don't even know what I'm looking for until I find it. I really appreciate the tip!

 

[wild-bee]

The Justisse system teaches you how to track it and to test the mucus so you can tell if you're uterus will be able to keep sperm alive.

I read a super cool thing that infertile sticky mucus catches sperm like a sponge/web and kills it with acidity also stops it getting into the uterus, but fertile mucus has sperm super highway channels which point them in the right direction!

Knowing that I’m only fertile for some days of the month I don’t see the need for hormonal birth control...

I wish I had been taught this, it should be basic education

 

[alywest]

I read a super cool thing that infertile sticky mucus catches sperm like a sponge/web and kills it with acidity also stops it getting into the uterus, but fertile mucus has sperm super highway channels which point them in the right direction!

I wish I had been taught this, it should be basic education

That is cool! I definitely want to learn about it more, and I agree it should be taught in school. Sex ed in schools in the US is focused on telling kids not to have sex or do drugs, at least when I was in school! You get a really basic rundown on the female anatomy and that's it. No talk about hormones, what birth control does, what your body actually goes through...of course the teachers probably don't know anything about mucus and progesterone and all that!

 

[dfspcc20]

Just a cautionary tale if you're going to do the Justisse system or Fertility Awareness.

My wife and I had been using Fertility Awareness (which seems to be exactly like Justisse) for 10+ years. She got pregnant the two times we intentionally tried, and did not get pregnant any other time. Until now... baby 3 is due in May.

We did the withdrawal method (aka Pull-and-Pray) during fertile days. That was likely our undoing. Yes, we know sperm can be present in pre-ejaculate.

So if you do either method, absolutely be sure to abstain during fertile days or use a barrier method. And never get complacent and assume you know when you're fertile days are- always check temps and cervical mucous.

Luckily we're not at a point where another child would make or break us financially. My wife definitely wasn't happy with me, though. She was finally making strides in terms of weight loss and diastasis recti, and now that's on hiatus. She's lobbying hard for a vasectomy.

 

[wild-bee]

@dfspcc20 withdrawal doesn't work and bound to fail sooner or later, perhaps she should get the surgery instead of blaming you

 

[catan]

Do you use the progest-e as birth control or just as a supplement?

I use it as a supplement.

I probably would use barrier methods for birth control during fertile days.

 

[catan]

I read a super cool thing that infertile sticky mucus catches sperm like a sponge/web and kills it with acidity also stops it getting into the uterus, but fertile mucus has sperm super highway channels which point them in the right direction!



I wish I had been taught this, it should be basic education

It really should! When I started charting and realized this fact I couldn’t believe how I never knew this about my body. I was lucky to have avoided hormonal birth control (bad reaction when I tried) but no accidental pregnancies (no ovulation and no mucus for most of my 20s... in hindsight, a reflection of suboptimal health). I have two daughters and will definitely be sure they have greater awareness.

 

[alywest]

I use it as a supplement.

I probably would use barrier methods for birth control during fertile days.

There is a thread here that discusses using a diaphragm in combo with progesterone as kind of an added bonus...albeit an expensive one...

 

[wild-bee]

My estrogen is so out of whack that I actually take progesterone all month long.

how much do you normally use and how did you know to take a break?

alywest, there's a thread or a post somewhere here about taking gelatin, i think it is about 54g (bit vague on exact amount but have found that it doesn't matter exactly, thereabouts will do) to slow / stop overly heavy / long flow. works like a bomb. i use it monthly.

that sounds awesome will have to look into it

 

[alywest]

I do about three drops throughout the day, but lately I've been experimenting with pregnenalone during the day and progesterone only at night because progesterone makes me somewhat sleepy. I've been taking up to 800 mg of pregnenalone. I've been basing the break of progesterone on my cycle, so the week preceding ovulation is when I stopped taking it because that is when I am the least likely to get a headache. I didn't get a huge headache when I stopped and I didn't start my period early so that was good. I can take over 100 mg of progesterone at a time and not feel much, although I also base it on the veins in my hand and if they protrude when they are at waist level (a Ray Peat suggestion to determine if you're body's under stress.) I'd usually just keep taking the progesterone 3-4 drops at a time until the veins were down and then try to maintain that throughout the day and then a bigger dose at night.

 

[dfspcc20]

@dfspcc20 withdrawal doesn't work and bound to fail sooner or later, perhaps she should get the surgery instead of blaming you

The decision was both of ours; we know we're both at fault.
Vasectomy seems like the lesser of two evils when compared the common options offered to women (tubal ligation, estrogen- or progestin-based birth control, IUD, etc.) But I'm hoping we'll avoid that.

I agree that FAM/Justisse is the healthiest option. Just wanted to point out it requires constant vigilance and any lapse in judgement can bring unintended (though not tragic) consequences.