Dentist Without X-rays

Discussion in 'Oral Health' started by David, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. David

    David Member

    Dec 3, 2012
    Does anyone go to a dentist that doesn't require or use x-rays at all on their patients? According to Ray Peat, there are safer alternatives to x-rays and dental x-rays shouldn't be needed at all if the dentist is very competent. Where would you find a dentist like that? So far I haven't been able to find any information on Google about these types of dentists.
  2. key

    key Member

    Jan 27, 2013
    You could talk to the dentist to see if they'll do it. I had a cavity that fell out and the dentist put a new filling back in without taking x-rays(I didn't have insurance so probably wanted to save me money), but I imagine that is a lot easier than most dentist visits.
  3. Mephisto

    Mephisto Member

    Feb 10, 2013
    I asked my dentist if i could skip the xray and he laughed at me and started ridiculing me whenever I asked questions... hopefully I won't have to go again. Good luck finding one that's not an ***hole!
  4. Bryan

    Bryan Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Don't you know the new digital x-rays are perfectly safe? You know, it's like radiating energy so it's basically no different than the sun and stuff.

    Kidding aside, I've never found one. Maybe one of the weston price-type dentists, the ones still around that is, would be outside of the mainstream enough to at least listen to your concerns. Most dentists are insane though, I mean who would want to drill holes in peoples diseased mouths all day?!
  5. OP

    David Member

    Dec 3, 2012
    Sorry to hear that, himitsu. Did you go ahead and let that dentist x-ray you after that? I wouldn't want to pay a dentist like that for anything. I have found a yahoo answers question with someone that apparently went to a dentist that never suggested x-rays and used a small camera instead. Here is the link: ... 209AA3e0CH

    I found this laser dentistry and thought maybe they can use lasers instead of x-rays, but I read a couple of bad reviews about them. Now I'm emailing various dentists around me asking if they will work on patients without performing any x-rays. I've got a few responses so far, but as I expected they are saying they will need to do x-rays and how digital x-rays are low radiation. One even told me their digital x-rays give the same radiation from a walk in the sun. I will keep searching.

    Bryan, I'm not aware of these Weston Price type dentists. Do you have any more information about them ?
  6. Bryan

    Bryan Member

    Feb 2, 2013
  7. OP

    David Member

    Dec 3, 2012
    Thanks for the links, Bryan. Actually I got the idea of using lasers instead of x-rays from here: It says that the lasers can detect developing cavities long before the convetional methods. But I also contacted them asking about x-rays and they told me that they do need to perform x-rays.

    I was asking about the Weston Price dentists that are still practicing today. Do you know where you can find them?

    That's an interesting article about healing cavities. Since I have been following Ray Peat's recommendations since December 2009, I thought I would have been getting enough Calcium, Phosphate, Vitamin K2, and Vitamin D3. But for at least the first half of my time on the diet I was not regularly consuming oysters, liver, or gelatin, but was eating kiwis regularly which have some vitamin K. In fact I had almost no meat or gelatin at all for my first couple years on the diet and was practically on a vegetarian diet (with no vegetables except potatoes and carrots) until I started eating pork rinds in the last year or two for the gelatin and just last year started having liver weekly, oysters weekly or once every 10 days, and making broths with beef feet, beets, potatoes, onions, salt, garlic, and ginger. However, I still got a chip in the furthest back top left tooth at some point in the last year. And yesterday about a 10th or less of one of my molars fell off as I was eating potato chips. It looks sort of like the arrested cavity example on that blog, but not as bad because it is only about a 10th or less of the tooth and is on the front side of it rather than the top. That molar just happens to be next to a root canal I had years ago which has a dark color on the gumline.

    I also have some small rough exposed spots on my top two front teeth. A few years ago my two front teeth were very sensitive to salt but that stopped a couple years ago. I do not feel any pain in any of my teeth and have not felt any sort of tooth pain for years since that salt sensitivity stopped. There was no pain even when the piece fell off. I just thought it was a piece of the potato chip that got stuck and was trying to floss it out until I realized it was a hole. All of these problems occurred in the last 3 years or so. I have been avoiding dentists for about 5 years now because of the x-rays. The piece falling off yesterday just motivated me to try to find an x-ray free dentist again.

    Here is a response I got when I asked Ray Peat about replacing root canals in 2010:

    "There's normally no need to replace root canals, and x-rays aren't necessary even when having a root canal done if the dentist is very competent. The Japanese are probably more aware than Americans of the damage done by diagnositic x-rays. Systemic toxic effects have been demonstrated from a single set of dental x-rays.

    Nippon Hoshasen Gijutsu Gakkai Zasshi. 2009 Feb 20;65(2):254-62.
    [Factors impacting public acceptance of medical radiation exposure]
    [Article in Japanese]
    Tsuji S, Kanda R.
    Regulatory Sciences Research Group, Research Center for Radiation Protection,
    National Institute of Radiological Sciences, Japan.
    We undertook a survey to determine the public acceptance of medical radiation
    exposure throughout Japan, and 1,357 responses (67.9% response rate) were
    obtained using a two-stage systematic stratified random sampling method. The
    acceptance of exposure of children was generally similar to that of adults. For
    each of the attributes, 45-60% of the participants were accepting of exposure for
    cancer treatment and diagnosis, but only 30% were accepting of exposure for X-ray
    diagnoses of bone fractures and dental caries. In general, the presence of a
    child did not markedly affect women's acceptance of exposure. Factor analyses
    identified 3 factors influencing the acceptance of child exposure: symptomatic
    diseases to determine treatment, the possibility of high-risk diseases (or major
    organ diseases), and the association with cancer. Cluster analysis showed 4
    clusters: a positive group regarding children's exposure for the diagnosis of
    bone fractures and dental caries (12.9% of all participants), a positive group
    for major organ disease and cancer (15.5%), a negative group excluding cancer
    (55.2%), and a positive group for all cases (16.4%). The cluster distributions
    revealed that mothers with 10-to 18-year-old firstborn children showed a tendency
    to accept the medical radiation exposure of their children in all cases.

    Oral Oncol. 2009 Sep;45(9):e80-4. Epub 2009 May 12.
    The influence of different irradiation doses and desensitizer application on
    demineralization of human dentin.
    Bekes K, Francke U, Schaller HG, Kuhnt T, Gerlach R, Vordermark D, Gernhardt CR.
    Department of Operative Dentistry and Periodontology, University School of Dental
    Medicine, Martin-Luther-University Halle-Wittenberg, Halle, Germany.
    The aim of the present study was to evaluate the effect of different irradiation
    doses after desensitizer application on the onset of initial demineralization of
    human dentin in situ. The root surfaces of 45 freshly extracted caries-free human
    molars were cleaned, thereby removing the cementum. From each tooth two root
    dentin specimens were prepared. The specimens were distributed among the
    following experimental groups: 0, 0.5, 1, 2 and 5Gy. The irradiation dose was
    fractionally applied (0.5Gy/day). One dentin specimen of each group was inserted
    into both buccal aspects of nine intraoral mandibular appliances. On one side the
    specimens were additionally coated with the desensitizer Hyposen (H). On the
    other side, the specimens were left untreated (C). The appliances were worn by
    nine persons for five weeks day and night. During meals, the appliance was stored
    in 10% sucrose solution. After the in situ period, slabs (150microm) were ground
    and studied using a polarized light microscope. Concerning radiation dose,
    significant differences were observed between the control and 5Gy group (p<0.05,
    Tukey s test). Pairwise comparison showed that lesion depths in groups treated
    with Hyposen were significantly decreased. Within the limitations of this study
    it can be concluded that higher radiation doses seem to increase the caries
    susceptibility of dentin. The additional application of a desensitizer hampers
    the demineralization and might have a caries-protective effect on exposed
    irradiated root surfaces.

    Z Med Phys. 2006;16(2):148-54.
    Effect of tumor therapeutic irradiation on the mechanical properties of teeth
    Fränzel W, Gerlach R, Hein HJ, Schaller HG.
    Department of Physics, Martin Luther University Halle, 06099 Halle, Germany.
    Tumor irradiation of the head-neck area is accompanied by the development of a
    so-called radiation caries in the treated patients. In spite of conservative
    therapeutic measures, the process results in tooth destruction. The present study
    investigated the effects of irradiation on the demineralization and
    remineralization of the dental tissue. For this purpose, retained third molars
    were prepared and assigned either to a test group, which was exposed to
    fractional irradiation up to 60 Gy, or to a non-irradiated control group.
    Irradiated and non-irradiated teeth were then demineralized using acidic
    hydroxyl-cellulose gel; afterwards the teeth were remineralized using either
    Bifluorid12 or elmex gelee. The nanoindentation technique was used to measure the
    mechanical properties, hardness and elasticity, of the teeth in each of the
    conditions. The values were compared to the non-irradiated control group.
    Irradiation decreased dramatically the mechanical parameters of enamel and
    dentine. In nonirradiated teeth, demineralization had nearly the same effects of
    irradiation on the mechanical properties. In irradiated teeth, the effects of
    demineralization were negligible in comparison to non-irradiated teeth.
    Remineralization with Bifluorid12 or elmex gelee led to a partial improvement of
    the mechanical properties of the teeth. The enamel was more positively affected
    by remineralization than the dentine.

    SADJ. 2008 Nov;63(10):532, 534-7.
    Treatment and maintenance of a dentate patient with 'radiation caries'.
    Craddock HL.
    Division of Restorative Dentistry, Leeds Dental Institute, The Worsley Building,
    Clarendon Way, Leeds LS2 9LU, UK.
    Republished from:
    Dent Update. 2006 Oct;33(8):462-4, 467-8.
    Patients with xerostomia are presenting dental practitioners with challenges in
    caries control, long-term restoration and prosthodontic difficulties. In many
    cases, extraction may be the best option, but for younger, dentate patients, this
    may be inappropriate. This paper describes the management of a young partially
    dentate patient with severe xerostomia following irradiation of the salivary
    glands. Preventive and restorative management are discussed, together with
    treatment and healing of peri-radicular pathology. The case report demonstrates
    that long-term stabilization and management of caries and peri-radicular lesions
    are possible over a seven-year period for a patient with severe radiation caries.

    Caries Res. 2009;43(1):43-9. Epub 2009 Jan 19.
    Patterns of demineralization and dentin reactions in radiation-related caries.
    Silva AR, Alves FA, Antunes A, Goes MF, Lopes MA.
    Department of Oral Diagnosis, Piracicaba Dental School, UNICAMP, Piracicaba, Brazil.
    Radiation-related caries is a unique form of rampant decay and is a complication
    of head and neck radiotherapy that frequently causes generalized dental
    destruction and impairs quality of life in cancer patients. The aim of this study
    was to investigate the patterns of demineralization of caries in irradiated
    patients and to establish whether direct radiogenic damage to the dentition might
    be important in the progression of radiation-related caries. Teeth from patients
    who had concluded radiotherapy were examined histologically by polarized light
    microscopy, and the ultrastructure was examined by scanning backscattered
    electron microscopy. Cervical caries and incisal caries, a very unusual sort of
    lesion, were widely detected. Additionally, diffuse brown discoloration of the
    smooth surface of enamel was frequently observed. Polarized light microscopy
    suggested that these areas were incipient caries. Evidence of normal odontoblast
    function was observed in the detection of reactionary dentin and intratubular
    dentin deposition. In conclusion, radiation-related caries seems to have the same
    morphological and demineralization pattern as ordinary caries, with the presence
    of demineralized dentin, a translucent zone, dentin dead tracts, reactionary
    dentin and intratubular dentin deposition. Based on these findings, direct
    radiogenic destruction of the teeth seems to be not essential to the microscopic
    progression of radiation-related caries. Copyright 2009 S. Karger AG, Basel.

    And when I asked him about mercury leaching from root canals continuously and replacing it with a metal / mercury-free alternative:

    "It depends on what the filling material was (my dentist used calcium oxide), but the amount absorbed from amalgam fillings and food is probably much more significant."
  8. Bryan

    Bryan Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    I've heard Peat say thyroid helps with and estrogen promotes tooth decay. I don't know of any directories for the weston price dentists. You could try scouring google or something.
  9. Dan Wich

    Dan Wich Member

    Jan 22, 2013
    If you can't find a better dentist, you might be able to convince your dentist to skip the x-rays. I was able to convince mine by strongly reassuring him that I wouldn't take him to court if there was undiscovered cavity. I think that's their primary concern, supposedly court cases often go against the dentist if they allow a patient to "foolishly" refuse x-rays.
  10. OP

    David Member

    Dec 3, 2012
    Do you think taking cynomel could reverse tooth decay? I have a bottle of cynomel but have never tried it before. I've started taking 1,000 mg vitamin D3, vitamin K, and increased my eggshell calcium from one teaspoon a day to two teaspoons, adding baking soda to my orange juice, swishing baking soda water in my mouth several times a day, oil pulling with coconut oil, and rubbing honey into my gums. I'm also thinking of buying Restore toothpaste that some have had success re-mineralizing and re-growing broken and missing teeth with.
  11. Bryan

    Bryan Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Ah-ha! Maybe it's not a cure-all but I bet thyroid is the missing piece as far as dental health, since your diet seems ok. I'm thinking of all those hormones, like cortisol, prolactin, estrogen, etc. that are bad for bone and are higher in hypothyroidism. You could always try it and see.
  12. jyb

    jyb Member

    Nov 9, 2012
    Maybe toothpaste is a baddie too for mouth health, as it contains fluoride and seems hardly useful anyway for cleaning mouth?
  13. OP

    David Member

    Dec 3, 2012
    The toothpaste I mentioned doesn't contain fluoride. It has NovaMin which can re-mineralize teeth. Here is some information about NovaMin:

    The biggest problem with my diet is probably that I don't always eat as much as I should. I aim for half a gallon of whole milk and a quart of orange or more a day, but on most days I don't actually reach that. It's more common for me to end up only drinking a quart or 6 cups of whole milk in a day along with a serving of cheese, two eggs with a tablespoon of coconut oil, one cup of coffee with two tablespoons of sugar and cream, a carrot salad with a teaspoon of coconut oil and one - two teaspoons of Apple Cider Vinegar, pork rinds, two kiwis, sometimes potatoes to replace one serving of orange juice. I typically will have two cups of milk with one cup of orange juice and a little salt separately. I don't like the taste of salt added to orange juice or milk. I add a tablespoon of chocolate syrup to one of the two cups of milk.

    I have been very low PUFA since December 2009 and just about never ate anything that Ray Peat doesn't consider beneficial since then. I can't remember the last time I was able to sleep through the night without waking up at least once to pee. I often wake up two, three or more times during the night. I don't have a consistent sleeping schedule; I sometimes go to sleep very late and wake up late, and sometimes sleep early. My temperature upon waking is usually in the upper 96s or low 97s. It typically goes a little higher after breakfast and into the afternoon, but I rarely ever reach 98.6 or even the low 98s. However, it seems to always reach the mid 98s or higher on the days that I eat liver. I fry my liver in a little more than a tablespoon of butter with an onion. I also noticed my temperature would sometimes reach the 98s after eating a mango, but I was not able to duplicate this as consistently as I do with liver. My pulse is usually between 75 and 95. Sometimes it will go a little over 100 or a little under 75 but not often. I take pregnenolone, niacinamide, and eggshell calcium daily but have never noticed any effect from any of them. I have also taken Progest-E before but also never noticed any effect. I have never been overweight. Currently I'm 5'11" and 157 pounds. Not long before finding Ray Peat, I was raw vegan for about 2 months and got my weight to as low as 119. I have not had any sickness, not even a cold since late 2006 when I had a cold for 2 days.

    Also for a long time on this diet I was only brushing my teeth with water because I didn't trust the commercial toothpastes and I thought brushing with baking soda was hard on my teeth. And I didn't start rinsing after drinking orange juice until recently.
  14. Gray Ling

    Gray Ling Guest

    'Mr. Crentist' is my dentist and he's braggy about being a lousy human being. I hate himand his bad drugs sooo much I feel like crushing his teeth with a pliers.
  15. bobbybobbob

    bobbybobbob Member

    Jan 10, 2016
    Tell them you had a chest X-Ray recently and you'd like to skip the dental x-ray this time. Just do that every time.

    They want to do the X-Ray so they can bill for it, and also bill for the dentist's examination of the x-ray. It's completely covered on most dental plans. Try telling them (wink-wink, nod-nod) that you really don't care if they bill for it or not, but you don't want one. Hey, it's not going to cost you anything. I'd bet a good number of offices would calm down and not care once you make it clear that you don't mind what shows up on the bill as long as it's fully covered.