DeFibron - Liquid Methylated SFA For Lab/R&D

[managing]

Macrophages are necessary of course, but they are also implicated in fibrotic and cancer states.

Potential role of apoptotic macrophages in pulmonary inflammation and fibrosis
Induction of apoptosis has been associated with a variety of exposures which result in inflammatory and fibrotic lung disorders. Macrophages are key regulatory cells in the lung; however, the role of apoptotic macrophages in those pulmonary disorders is not well characterized. In the present investigation, apoptotic macrophages were instilled into the lungs of rats to study directly the pulmonary responses to apoptotic cells. The effects of apoptotic macrophages on lung inflammation and fibrosis, as well as associated protein expression of TNF-α, TGF-β, and matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) were examined. Induction of macrophage apoptosis was carried out in vitro using a variety of known apoptosis inducers. Intratracheal administration of apoptotic macrophages (5 × 106 cells/rat) into the lung of rats caused an increase in pulmonary infiltration of macrophages and lung cell apoptosis 4 weeks after the treatment as indicated by terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP nick end-labeling (TUNEL) assay. In contrast, pulmonary instillation of saline or normal control macrophages had no effect. Histological analysis of lung sections showed collagen deposition and fibrotic lesions after apoptotic cell treatment but not in control groups. Immunohistochemical studies revealed increased expression of TNF-α, TGF-β, MMP2, and MMP9 in the treatment group 4 weeks after the treatment. These results suggest a role for macrophage apoptosis in the initiation of these lung disorders. This study provides direct evidence that apoptotic macrophages can induce lung inflammation and fibrosis and that this induction may be associated with increased expression of TNF-α, TGF-β, MMP2, and MMP9.

Anti-inflammatory and antifibrotic effects of methyl palmitate - ScienceDirect
Methyl palmitate (MP) has been shown earlier to inhibit Kupffer cells and rat peritoneal macrophages. To evaluate the potential of MP to inhibit the activation of other macrophages, RAW cells (macrophages of alveolar origin) were treated with varying concentrations of MP (0.25, 0.5, 1 mM). Assessment of cytotoxicity using MTT assay revealed that 0.25 and 0.5 mM are not toxic to RAW cells. MP was able to inhibit the phagocytic function of RAW cells. Treatment of cells with MP 24 hours prior to LPS stimulation significantly decreased nitric oxide release and altered the pattern of cytokines release; there was a significant decrease in TNF-α and a significant increase in IL-10 compared to the controls. However, there is a non-significant change in IL-6 level. Furthermore, phosphorylation of inhibitory kappa B (IκBα) protein was significantly decreased in RAW cells treated with 0.5 mM MP after LPS stimulation. Based upon the in-vitro results, it was examined whether MP treatment will be effective in preventing bleomycin-induced lung inflammation and fibrosis in-vivo. Bleomycin given by itself caused destruction of the lung architecture characterized by pulmonary fibrosis with collapse of air alveoli and emphysematous. Bleomycin induced a significant increase in hydroxyproline level and activated NF-κB, p65 expression in the lung. MP co-treatment significantly ameliorated bleomycin effects. These results suggest that MP has a potential of inhibiting macrophages in general. The present study demonstrated for the first time that MP has anti-inflammatory and antifibrotic effect that could be through NF-kB inhibition. Thus MP like molecule could be a promising anti-inflammatory and antifibrotic drug.

Nice. Thanks @ecstatichamster

 

[blackkzeus]

Most notable effects are reduced serotonin. I don't take this every day but I still get good effects with it.

What does reduced serotonin feel like?

 

[Constatine]

What does reduced serotonin feel like?

Expansive awareness, heightened senses, feelings of peace, mental clarity.

 

[denise]

I've been testing this out for a little over a month and haven't had great success with it. I started slow and ramped up slowly until I've done 5 drops a couple times a day for the last few days. I've been hoping to feel the same thing I felt with my Diamant/Gonadin combo but haven't. I realized today that my recent intermittent headaches/irritability/emotional instability must be due to taking this, so I'm going to stop for now and go back to Diamant/Gonadin. That combo is a home run for me ( mentally/emotionally in particular).

As part of my experiment I've been rubbing a drop of DeFibron into my thyroidectomy scar a couple times a day (I'll probably still do that), and although I have nothing to report on that front, I did realize something today. Like many others, I have a tooth that's become very sensitive since starting DeFibron. It's a tooth that about a year ago my dentist said was looking like it might end up with a cavity (it's less sensitive than it was a couple weeks ago, though). Today, though, I realized something else. Almost two years ago I had a subtotal thyroidectomy. In the past couple weeks I've noticed that sometimes my throat feels tight and sore (not like a sore throat when you're sick but the muscles in my neck are sore). I'd been thinking this soreness felt similar to two years ago, and I finally realized today that it might be the DeFibron. The soreness feels very much like how it felt after my surgery. Could this stuff be affecting the muscles damaged by the surgery? I really wish we all knew what was going on with these old wounds. Is this a good thing? Bad thing? Neutral?

 

[managing]

I've been testing this out for a little over a month and haven't had great success with it. I started slow and ramped up slowly until I've done 5 drops a couple times a day for the last few days. I've been hoping to feel the same thing I felt with my Diamant/Gonadin combo but haven't. I realized today that my recent intermittent headaches/irritability/emotional instability must be due to taking this, so I'm going to stop for now and go back to Diamant/Gonadin. That combo is a home run for me ( mentally/emotionally in particular).

As part of my experiment I've been rubbing a drop of DeFibron into my thyroidectomy scar a couple times a day (I'll probably still do that), and although I have nothing to report on that front, I did realize something today. Like many others, I have a tooth that's become very sensitive since starting DeFibron. It's a tooth that about a year ago my dentist said was looking like it might end up with a cavity (it's less sensitive than it was a couple weeks ago, though). Today, though, I realized something else. Almost two years ago I had a subtotal thyroidectomy. In the past couple weeks I've noticed that sometimes my throat feels tight and sore (not like a sore throat when you're sick but the muscles in my neck are sore). I'd been thinking this soreness felt similar to two years ago, and I finally realized today that it might be the DeFibron. The soreness feels very much like how it felt after my surgery. Could this stuff be affecting the muscles damaged by the surgery? I really wish we all knew what was going on with these old wounds. Is this a good thing? Bad thing? Neutral?

I also experienced the intermittent headache and irritability when I tried to go up from 5 drops to 10 (3xd with meals). I can't decide whether it was too much dopamine or whether it was too rapid microbiome remodeling. I am convinced that this stuff is radically changing my gut microbiome in a good way. Presumably through its considerable enhancement of gut mucosa (and raising pH). So I cut back to 5 drops 3xd and that has been extremely happy for me. I'll probably pick it up again out of curiosity. But I'll wait a few months. Some changes proceed best when slow.

 

[denise]

I also experienced the intermittent headache and irritability when I tried to go up from 5 drops to 10 (3xd with meals). I can't decide whether it was too much dopamine or whether it was too rapid microbiome remodeling. I am convinced that this stuff is radically changing my gut microbiome in a good way. Presumably through its considerable enhancement of gut mucosa (and raising pH). So I cut back to 5 drops 3xd and that has been extremely happy for me. I'll probably pick it up again out of curiosity. But I'll wait a few months. Some changes proceed best when slow.

Thanks. I've been hoping for help with my gut too (and glycogen storage), which is why I was trying to ramp up higher. But maybe just using a few drops a day rubbed into my scar will give some long-term benefits but more gently. If it does make a difference in my scar at least it will be obvious that it's doing something good.

 

[managing]

Thanks. I've been hoping for help with my gut too (and glycogen storage), which is why I was trying to ramp up higher. But maybe just using a few drops a day rubbed into my scar will give some long-term benefits but more gently. If it does make a difference in my scar at least it will be obvious that it's doing something good.

I should mention I am taking it orally. This is probably necessary for the intestinal and liver benefits. Somebody noted that it burns the back of their throat like olive oil. The way I solved this is I put a small amount of water in a glass. Put drops of Defibron on surface, and drink it down all at once. Rinse the glass to make sure I get it all. And I am now always taking it with a meal.

 

[Constatine]

I notice the most benefits at 2 drops taken intermittently. I have not had good success on high doses. It makes me irritable as already stated here.

 

[Nokoni]

Hi @denise . You might want to try niacinamide for your scar. It's cheap as dirt (Bulk Supplements from Amazon) and it works for me. Plus it's great for the face:
Niacinamide: A B vitamin that improves aging facial skin appearance. - PubMed - NCBI
Easy too. 1/8th tsp (or less) in your palm, few drops of water (extremely hydrophilic), mix with finger, dab scar or wherever, remainder on face. Also clears FFAs from the blood very effectively.

I also use DeFibron, 2 drops oral, 3 on the face. (So it might actually be the combination that helped my scar.) I initially experimented with larger doses and got what I suppose to be a major dopamine rush, almost giddy, but after a while uncomfortable. Subsequently backed off to current level and feel good with it.

For irritability, have you tried metergoline? Notably improved emotional resilience and feels very nice. Again, had to back off to just 2 drops daily to find the sweet spot. Obviously won't work for everyone but for me it works a treat.

 

[denise]

Hi @denise . You might want to try niacinamide for your scar. It's cheap as dirt (Bulk Supplements from Amazon) and it works for me. Plus it's great for the face:
Niacinamide: A B vitamin that improves aging facial skin appearance. - PubMed - NCBI
Easy too. 1/8th tsp (or less) in your palm, few drops of water (extremely hydrophilic), mix with finger, dab scar or wherever, remainder on face. Also clears FFAs from the blood very effectively.

I also use DeFibron, 2 drops oral, 3 on the face. (So it might actually be the combination that helped my scar.) I initially experimented with larger doses and got what I suppose to be a major dopamine rush, almost giddy, but after a while uncomfortable. Subsequently backed off to current level and feel good with it.

For irritability, have you tried metergoline? Notably improved emotional resilience and feels very nice. Again, had to back off to just 2 drops daily to find the sweet spot. Obviously won't work for everyone but for me it works a treat.

Hey, Don. Thanks for the reminder. Niacinamide for my skin is one of those things I keep meaning to get around to someday... Anyway, the scar isn't bad at all, so my DeFibron scar experiment is more about seeing if DeFibron does anything rather than a strident attempt to make the scar disappear. But if the experiment fails, maybe I'll finally get around to the niacinamide. :)

I have some metergoline and have never felt anything from it, unfortunately (I should probably just sell it to someone). But fortunately, the cure for the irritability I mentioned before is just to stop using so much DeFibron!

 

[Nokoni]

Yeah, it's done wonders for me. Here's proof:

 

[Wagner83]

Haha, Paul Newman was such a beast.

 

[Epistrophy]

I have been taking 1/2 tsp a day with no unwanted side effects people are talking about.

Being feeling relaxed and helps digestion food. Give to rats before meal and after meal temperature is raised with a tingle in the hands and feet

 

[Regina]

Haha, Paul Newman was such a beast.

Smokin' hot. I met him. He was a friend of my old boss and use to come in to have lunch with her. He was very polite and friendly.

 

[Nokoni]

Haha, Paul Newman was such a beast.

Smokin' hot. I met him. He was a friend of my old boss and use to come in to have lunch with her. He was very polite and friendly.

Implying that's not me :)

 

[grenade]

I'd love to hear what people's experiences are Defibron, hair-wise. It's interesting that fibrosis is implicated in hair loss and old injuries, and that a lot of people here are experiencing old injuries becoming painful again.

I began to experience hair loss and joint issues at the same time.

 

[haidut]

@haidut Since you have the longest R&D on Defibron, have you found out some ideal cycling program for it? For example, I think you have suggested 5 days on, 2 days off for Gonadin and perhaps 3 weeks on, one week off for Diamant. Any suggestion in this regard for Defibron?

I think it is wise to take some time off of any supplement simply because the body is an adaptive machine and changes its function in a way to accommodate the metabolism/excretion of these supplements. Given that DeFibron is just saturated fat, I think it can probably be used for longer but I would try to get at least 3 days off for every month of use. Also, if methyl palmitate does indeed act as an androgen agonist as per the drone study it probably needs some cycling to let those "receptors" reset. But if somebody feels great effects form using it and they do not diminish with time then I don't see a reason not to keep using it.
Just my 2c.

 

[haidut]

@haidut what do you think about:

1. Topical application on top of subcutaneous lipomas. They are contained in fibrous sacs. I've tried a few times but not daily. Would this absorb directly down into tissues and would a DMSO carrier be compatible and possibly better?

2. Topical application on scrotum---any concerns or danger at 10-20 drops? I have tried this an it seems to supercharge libido and seemingly lower prolactin. However I put a few doses of diament in my bottle probably about 2-3mg per 20 drops...And in that thread I mentioned that diament did the same at higher doses so not sure which is causing

But want to ensure there in danger here

I think there is some validity to application on skin lipomas. The vitamin E may also help dissolve them and DeFibron has some of that too. Probably no need to put on the scrotum. Given how even very low doses of methyl palmitate were androgenic in that drone study I think any topical application of 10+ drops would likely give all the androgenic effects one wants. Last but not least, DeFibron should combine great with Diamant but not well with DMSO-based supplements as fat and DMSO do not like each other.

 

[haidut]

A mail from Ray:
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

I'm not sure if he was concerned about the unsaturated vitamin a and maybe e, I understand it as if he just doesn't want to mess with changing the lipids environment at all.

Well, we do use pure mixed tocopherol and the lab test showed there is no tocotrienol content in the vitamin E we use or the methyl esters in DeFibron. But still, other than steroid precursor I don't think there is need to apply anything else to the gonads.

 

[haidut]

Scar on forehead now pretty much imperceptible. (Friend: "What happened to the bump on your forehead. It's gone now.")

(Been there 50+ years, collision on pop-up, doc couldn't find bleeder squirting on the wall beside me so just stitched it close, cyst forms around remaining pieces of teammate's teeth, surgery to remove cyst, remove stitches and wound opens right back up, more stitches to close again, so fair amount of scar tissue.)

Not sure if credit goes to Defibron or niacinamide, both of which topical on face daily.

Wow, amazing! Thanks for sharing!