Deep Fried Food, What Is Your Opinion?

[Captain_Coconut]

So I know clearly that frequently consuming food fried in PUFA is a major health risk, largely because it is PUFA but I suspect it is even more dangerous than consuming 'virgin pufa' - since frying will speed up the rate which the PUFA is oxidized.

What about food that is deep fried in palm oil or coconut oil? Should it also be avoided for health reasons or is it relatively as safe as consuming the same food with an equivalent amount of 'virgin' palm or coconut oil?

I have read that Advanced Glycation End-products are one of the main reasons fried food is not healthy, but I am not sure if this should be thought of as specific to deep frying - any form of dry heat cooking will raise the AGE, even if oil is not added to the cooking process. The Maillard reaction in cooking is what creates AGE.

Other than AGE, is frying doing anything else that would be bad to get a lot of? Or could it be that the negative health association here is mainly due to PUFA use being so common in fried food?

Palm oil is increasingly being found in many fried snack foods etc, while not as PUFA free as coconut oil - it has a similar fat profile to beef tallow or lard - so it seems favorable to something like canola.

Because I haven't reached a conclusion here yet on this subject, I keep avoiding fried food, even at home where the oil used is completely under my control. Am I just being silly? If I am living very close to the RP ideal diet, should I worry about AGE and low-pufa fried foods at all? Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Just emailed Ray with same question. Will post response here if I get an answer.

 

[Aaron]

Deep frying adds too much fat to food with no added value, but as an occasional treat, if you're counting calories, and you're sure the fat used was palm oil, it's not too bad.

If it's deep-fried in PUFA (in which case a lot of trans fats and preservative are usually present), there is no excuse to ever eat it.

 

[General Orange]

I read here somewhere I guess, that using high heat when frying makes PUFA change molecule structure and so it gets less absorbable relative to unheated veggie oils. This makes me think frying refined PUFA is preferable over consuming products with refined or unrefined vegetable oil, except olive and palm kernel, coconut-oil.
Also the composition of soy oil seems preferred choice by factories in making hydrolyzed fats for baking products etc. above other veg oils. The hydrolyzed soy oil shortenings are almost not absorbed by the body and so are less fattening and thus preferable over the others when consuming of jammy cookies etc. is highly desired.

edit edit: the hydrolyzed soy oil is has bio-availability of only 30% link

 

[Aaron]

I read here somewhere I guess, that using high heat when frying makes PUFA change molecule structure and so it gets less absorbable relative to unheated veggie oils. This makes me think frying refined PUFA is preferable over consuming products with refined or unrefined vegetable oil, except olive and palm kernel, coconut-oil.
Also the composition of soy oil seems preferred choice by factories in making hydrolyzed fats for baking products etc. above other veg oils. The hydrolyzed soy oil shortenings are almost not absorbed by the body and so are less fattening and thus preferable over the others when consuming of jammy cookies etc. is highly desired.

edit edit: the hydrolyzed soy oil is has bio-availability of only 30% link

No, it's not a good idea to eat hydrogenated PUFA in any amount. Is it EXTREMELY atherogenic.

 

[General Orange]

No, it's not a good idea to eat hydrogenated PUFA in any amount. Is it EXTREMELY atherogenic.

Well, that would be the trans fats from partially hydrogenation. Fully hydrogenated is just like saturated fatty acids, chemically.

 

[Aaron]

Well, that would be the trans fats from partially hydrogenation. Fully hydrogenated is just like saturated fatty acids, chemically.

Ah, I actually didn't know that. Nonetheless, the phytoestrogen, glyphosate, etc make it a good idea to avoid soy oil.

 

[General Orange]

Glyphosate has a Boiling point‎: ‎decomposes at 187 °C = 368.6 Fahrenheit (°F)
So deep frying it above that temp should destroy it.

Maybe a good idea to always deep fry our veggies :p

 

[Aaron]

Glyphosate has a Boiling point‎: ‎decomposes at 187 °C = 368.6 Fahrenheit (°F)
So deep frying it above that temp should destroy it.

Maybe a good idea to always deep fry our veggies :p

Damn bruh I need to spout "facts" at you more often so you can set me straight :p. You reminded me why I love this place.

 

[General Orange]

Effect of deep-fat frying on fat oxidation in soybean oil.

Abstract
The frying performance and stability of pure soybean oil (PSBO), soybean oil blended with palm kernel olein and PSBO with an antioxidant mixture of butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA), propyl gallate and citric acid were compared.
The oils were subjected to intermittent frying (up to 15 fryings, without any 'topping up') of potato slices, at 180 degrees C for a period of and 337 min. Analytical determinations on the oils included the peroxide value (PV), iodine value (IV), free fatty acid (FFA) value, saponification value (SV) and the refractive index (RI). Changes in the product at the sensory level were also assessed.
Results showed that (1) fat oxidation hence, reduction of unsaturated fatty acids, as indicated by changes in the IV, was non-significant in the treated oils, (2) hydrolysis of fats, as shown by changes in the FFA value from the first to last frying, was lowest in the blended oil but highest in PSBO, (3) the same trend as above was observed for PV, an indicator of fat oxidation and rancidity, (4) changes in SV were non-significant in the treated soya oils while PSBO with the antioxidant showed the least change in RI, (5) treated oils exhibited no visual increase in viscosity or turbidity and (6) PSBO with the antioxidant had the lightest colour at the end of the frying period. Taste panellists were unable to discriminate between products fried in the treated oils and in PSBO. Sensory assessment showed an improved quality of the chips fried in the blend. Chips fried in PSBO scored the lowest ratings. Thus, the overall results showed an improved behaviour and quality of the treated oils in terms of thermal stability during frying.

Effect of deep-fat frying on fat oxidation in soybean oil. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[tara]

What would you deep fry? I'm guessing that large amounts of high-temp or maillard-reacted foods may not be great, but I happily eat deep fried potato chips occasionally from places that cook in beef fat. Dry starches have down-sides. Gluten grains have down sides, but could probably make gluten-free batters with gluten-free grains if you use enough eggs, or if you can cope with a bit of slow-leavened or sourdough wheat batter.

A lot of the snack foods round here that use palm oil also seem to have dry starches in them, or gums, and they have down-sides too.

I regularly saute veges in coconut oil. :)

For myself, I'd consider deep-fried occasional snacks, but not keen to make them staples.

 

[General Orange]

Fatty Acid Composition and Quality Characteristic of Some Vegetable Oils Used in Making Commercial Imitation Cheese in Egypt
Vegetable oil samples of four different variants : Shortening (un hydrogenated refined palm oil), Cocoa butter substitutes (hydrogenated palm kernel oil), Palm oil and Coconut oil were obtained from local markets in Cairo, Egypt.

All the chemicals used were of analytical grade. Pure standards of fatty acids methyl esters (FAMES) were purchased from (Sigma Chemical Company, St. Louis, MO, USA).

The data presented in Table 2 revealed that both cocoa butter substitute (CBSO) and shortening oil (SHO) have similar values of PV. The coconut oil (CO) and palm oil (PO) samples showed a significant (p<0.05) elevation in PV (by about 71%) compared to CBSO and SHO samples.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Alright this thread is a cookin’ now ;-)

Ray’s email response:

“
Heat damages all sorts of food, so for health I think meat should be heated quickly, just enough to destroy any biological pathogens, and keeping chemical pathogens to a minimum.

Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2017 Nov 22;57(17):3781-3793.
Dietary protein oxidation: A silent threat to human health?
Estévez M, Luna C2.
Protein oxidation has become a topic of great scientific interest in the field of food science and nutrition. Food proteins are known to be preferential targets of radical species, and protein oxidation has relevant consequences on protein functionality and food quality. Current trends in this field call attention to the nutritional and health dimensions of oxidized foods. Both lipid and protein oxidation products are accumulated in food during processing and storage and also upon food intake during the subsequent digestion phases. The gastrointestinal tract and internal organs are exposed to the cytotoxic and mutagenic potential of these species. While the molecular basis of the pathogenesis of particular dietary lipid oxidation products is well known, the impact of dietary oxidized proteins on human health has been largely ignored. The well-established association between in vivo protein oxidation and aging and age-related diseases urges scientists to investigate the contribution of dietary protein oxidation to particular pathological conditions. Recent reports indicate the involvement of dietary protein oxidation species on particular health disorders, which emphasizes the link between dietary and in vivo protein oxidation.

Mol Nutr Food Res. 2011 Jan;55(1):83-95.
Protein oxidation in muscle foods: a review.
Lund MN, Heinonen M, Baron CP, Estévez M.
Protein oxidation in living tissues is known to play an essential role in the pathogenesis of relevant degenerative diseases, whereas the occurrence and impact of protein oxidation (Pox) in food systems have been ignored for decades. Currently, the increasing interest among food scientists in this topic has led to highlight the influence that Pox may have on meat quality and human nutrition. Recent studies have contributed to solid scientific knowledge regarding basic oxidation mechanisms, and in advanced methodologies to accurately assess Pox in food systems. Some of these studies have provided insight into the reactions involved in the oxidative modifications undergone by muscle proteins. Moreover, a variety of products derived from oxidized muscle proteins, including cross-links and carbonyls, have been identified. The impact of oxidation on protein functionality and on specific meat quality traits has also been addressed. Some other recent studies have shed light on the complex interaction mechanisms between myofibrillar proteins and certain redox-active compounds such as tocopherols and phenolic compounds. This paper is devoted to review the most relevant findings on the occurrence and consequences of Pox in muscle foods. The efficiency of different anti-oxidant strategies against the oxidation of muscle proteins is also reported.

Adv Food Nutr Res. 2017;82:45-81.
Health Risks of Food Oxidation.
Estévez M(1), Li Z(2), Soladoye OP(3), Van-Hecke T(4).
(1)IPROCAR Research Institute, TECAL Research Group, University of Extremadura,
Cáceres, Spain. Electronic address: [email protected].
(2)The Laboratory of Food Nutrition and Functional Factors, Food Science and
Technology, Jiangnan University, Wuxi, China.
(3)Lacombe Research Centre, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Lacombe, AB,
Canada; College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan,
Saskatoon, Canada.
(4)Ghent University, Ghent, Belgium.
The impact of dietary habits on our health is indisputable. Consumer's concern on
aging and age-related diseases challenges scientists to underline the potential
role of food on the extension and guarantee of lifespan and healthspan. While
some dietary components and habits are generally regarded as beneficial for our
health, some others are being found to exert potential toxic effects and hence,
contribute to the onset of particular health disorders. Among the latter, lipid
and protein oxidation products formed during food production, storage,
processing, and culinary preparation have been recently identified as potentially
harmful to humans. Upon intake, food components are further degraded and oxidized
during the subsequent digestion phases and the pool of compounds formed in the
lumen is in close contact with the lamina propria of the intestines. Some of
these oxidation products have been found to promote inflammatory conditions in
the gut (i.e., bowel diseases) and are also reasonably linked to the onset of
carcinogenic processes. Upon intestinal uptake, some species are distributed by
the bloodstream causing an increase in oxidative stress markers and impairment of
certain physiological processes through alteration of specific gene expression
pathways. This chapter summarizes the most recent discoveries on this topic with
particular stress on challenges that we face in the near future: understanding
the molecular basis of disease, the suitability of using living animals vs in
vitro model systems and the necessity of using massive genomic techniques and
versatile mass spectrometric technology.”

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Honestly I’ve just been craving fallafel lately. FWIW, AGE should be much higher in high protein foods than in low protein foods. Pre-blanching, and then breading and flash deep frying - in the right oil could potentially bring out some Maillard reaction flavor / with less risk then pan frying or roasting ( both which require longer cooking times). If I’m not mistaken, longer cook times and higher heats are both bad for AGE.

 

[General Orange]

In the tentative to define a high or low AGE diet different authors measured AGE content in usual daily food intake. The average dietary AGE intake in a cohort of healthy adults from New York City area was found to be nearly 15000 KU/day [21].

CML is widely measured as an index of AGEs in foods, although it can be also formed endogenously. Liardon et al. [25] assumed that the dietary CML is the main source of the urinary CML. Nearly its 10% is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract and is delivered to liver and to other tissues. One third of this quote is excreted in the urine, and the remaining is accumulated in the body, leading to age-related damage [20].

Review of the Characteristics of Food-Derived and Endogenous Nε-Carboxymethyllysine

Fats
Almonds, roasted 66.5 kU/g
Oil, olive 120 kU/ml
Butter 265 kU/g
Mayonnaise 94 kU/g

Proteins
Chicken breast, broiled for 15 min 58 kU/g
Chicken breast, fried for 15 min 61 kU/g
Beef, broiled for 1 h 22 kU/g
Beef, broiled for 15 min 60 kU/g
Tuna, roasted for 40 min 6 kU/g
Tuna, broiled for 10 min 51 kU/g
Cheese, American 87 kU/g
Cheese, Brie 56 kU/g
Egg, fried 27 kU/g
Egg yolk, boiled 12 kU/g
Tofu, raw 8 kU/g
Tofu, broiled 41 kU/g

Carbohydrates
Bread, whole-wheat center 0.54 kU/g
Pancake, homemade 10 kU/g
Milk, cow, whole 0.05 kU/ml
Milk, human, whole 0.05 kU/ml
Enfamil (infant formula) 4.86 kU/ml
Apple 0.13 kU/g
Banana 0.01 kU/g
Carrots 0.1 kU/g
Green beans 0.18 kU/g

 

[General Orange]

Anti AGE's: Antioxidants and ROS scavengers :
Vitamin C ; Vitamin E ; NAC N-Acetyl-Cysteine
Garlic / aged garlic
Curcumin / kurkuma
food with high flavonoid content
food with high ORAC value

In order to prevent these undesired affects and to cease the lipid oxidation reactions, various compounds can be added into the frying oils as thermally stable synthetic antioxidants such as butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA) and tertiary butylated hydroquinone (TBHQ) [4]. However, commercially used synthetic antioxidants have been strictly controlled therefore people are more aware against the use of these food additives and they are interested in the use of natural antioxidants.

Investigation of the Effect of Olive Leaf and Clove Extracts Mixture on the Stability of Sunflower Oil During Repeated Deep Frying of Potatoes

 

[General Orange]

Palm oil is increasingly being found in many fried snack foods etc, while not as PUFA free as coconut oil - it has a similar fat profile to beef tallow or lard - so it seems favorable to something like canola.

Palm oil is not the same saturated fat as tallow or lard and cannot be compared with them. See here:
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/on-palm-oil-and-cocoa-butter.1018/

Even if palm oil is 50% saturated fat, like pork fat, there is a biological subtlety linked to the distribution of fatty acids in the 1,2 and 3 positions of the glycerol.
The biodisponibility of a fatty acid is maximal when this one is linked to the position 2 of the glycerol.
In Palm oil, like in cocoa butter, the unsaturated fatty acids are in the bioavailable position (position 2) whereas, for example, satured fatty acids occupy that position in lard.
Palm oil has to be considered like an oil which is rich of unsaturated fatty acids, like cocoa butter, and not like a source of saturated fatty acids because, when ingested and after digestion, palm oil’s saturated fatty acids are mostly evacuated via the bowel (the calcium salt of the saturated fatty acids are insoluble and are then excreted) due to their position (1 and 3) of the glycerol and their non-utilisation by the body.

The lard and tallow is as bad as the absorbed toxic vegetable oils that are eaten by the animal.
The better lard and tallow would be from animals th're grass-fed.

 

[SOMO]

Glyphosate has a Boiling point‎: ‎decomposes at 187 °C = 368.6 Fahrenheit (°F)
So deep frying it above that temp should destroy it.

Maybe a good idea to always deep fry our veggies :p

Decomposition into what?

Any evidence that Decomposition doesn't mean breaking down into even more toxic byproducts?

I read here somewhere I guess, that using high heat when frying makes PUFA change molecule structure and so it gets less absorbable relative to unheated veggie oils. This makes me think frying refined PUFA is preferable over consuming products with refined or unrefined vegetable oil, except olive and palm kernel, coconut-oil.
Also the composition of soy oil seems preferred choice by factories in making hydrolyzed fats for baking products etc. above other veg oils. The hydrolyzed soy oil shortenings are almost not absorbed by the body and so are less fattening and thus preferable over the others when consuming of jammy cookies etc. is highly desired.

edit edit: the hydrolyzed soy oil is has bio-availability of only 30% link

PUFA Breakdown = MDA and Acrolein.
Even if Bioavailability of MDA and Acrolein is less than that of PUFA, they're more toxic as far as I know.

 

[General Orange]

Decomposition into what?

Any evidence that Decomposition doesn't mean breaking down into even more toxic byproducts?

What I could find about Glyphosate thermal decomposition is vague, but cooking should not break it down:

"When heated to decomposition it emits very toxic fumes of /nitrogen and phosphorus oxides/."

The results showed that the thermal decomposition temperature of glyphosate was above 198 C. And the decomposition process was divided into three stages: The zero stage is the decomposition of impurities, and the mass loss in the first and second stage may be methylene and carbonyl, respectively.

In the first stage of hot mass loss, the initial temperature was at around 230 C, so the result demonstrated that the decomposing phenomenon occurred with the melting process of glyphosate. By analyzing the infrared spectrum of the sample which is processed by rising temperature to 260 C at the heating rate of 6 C min-1, the most possible group loss in this stage may be methylene.
Study on thermal decomposition and the non-isothermal decomposition kinetics of glyphosate

 

[General Orange]

PUFA Breakdown = MDA and Acrolein.
Even if Bioavailability of MDA and Acrolein is less than that of PUFA, they're more toxic as far as I know.

Milk thistle and Taurine are effective at preventing or reducing oxidative stress damage from TBARS like MDA.