Decoupling With Aspirin, Low Appetite

[Captain_Coconut]

If I dose myself every 4 hours with caffeine/aspirin/baking soda (300mg / 1.5g, 3g) I have found success in raising my body temperature to around 99.2 (oral reading) - this I can comfortably sustain for 12 or so hours before I start to get a bit groggy, it feels great to be warm and in good spirits but I also worry because I also end up losing my appetite for most of the day and will only feel enough hunger to want to lightly snack around 1200 calories for the day. Through monitoring my temperature the past couple months it has become clear that I am in my most happy state around 99 to 99.4, I have hit this temperature via other means but the aspirin caffeine approach has been the most consistent. I have been doing this around 3 days a week now since late February, perhaps because I am still new to this my body is burning off fat stores and therefore I am lacking the appetite.... I do notice the skin around my belly fat feels warmer... it does feel a bit like the honey-moon period I had with intermittent fasting where I felt like I had unstoppable energy during the day before I ate anything.... I am mainly curious what other members of this forum's experience has been with the aspirin / caffeine decoupling... can it turn in to too much of a good thing? How often is it healthy to do this decoupling? I am roughly 22% body fat currently and ideally would like to be around 15% or so. I really feel it is helping to improve my overall mood, even when my temp goes back around 98.6, so I don't feel like stopping - but I feel like there must be some caveats this forum can inform me of. I would also like to know what you make of having a low appetite while decoupling.

 

[theLaw]

I've tried the uncoupling with caffeine/aspirin/thiamine, but usually hit a wall after 48hrs and feel like hammered-sh*t.

It should be noted that it appears that I had excess iron, so this could easily explain that response.

In my experience, much higher calories are needed to uncouple properly, so I would be concerned with only 1200 per day.

You might consider using this as an opportunity to sip milk + sugar throughout the day, which might kick-start your metabolism. Most people are hungry caused by stress, so you might have an easy way to add milk into your diet.

 

[MrThyroid]

If I dose myself every 4 hours with caffeine/aspirin/baking soda (300mg / 1.5g, 3g) I have found success in raising my body temperature to around 99.2 (oral reading) - this I can comfortably sustain for 12 or so hours before I start to get a bit groggy, it feels great to be warm and in good spirits but I also worry because I also end up losing my appetite for most of the day and will only feel enough hunger to want to lightly snack around 1200 calories for the day. Through monitoring my temperature the past couple months it has become clear that I am in my most happy state around 99 to 99.4, I have hit this temperature via other means but the aspirin caffeine approach has been the most consistent. I have been doing this around 3 days a week now since late February, perhaps because I am still new to this my body is burning off fat stores and therefore I am lacking the appetite.... I do notice the skin around my belly fat feels warmer... it does feel a bit like the honey-moon period I had with intermittent fasting where I felt like I had unstoppable energy during the day before I ate anything.... I am mainly curious what other members of this forum's experience has been with the aspirin / caffeine decoupling... can it turn in to too much of a good thing? How often is it healthy to do this decoupling? I am roughly 22% body fat currently and ideally would like to be around 15% or so. I really feel it is helping to improve my overall mood, even when my temp goes back around 98.6, so I don't feel like stopping - but I feel like there must be some caveats this forum can inform me of. I would also like to know what you make of having a low appetite while decoupling.

just keep do work up until you feel bad i would add some vitamin c to speed up the fatburning process

 

[tara]

but I feel like there must be some caveats this forum can inform me of

Looks like you've found some caveats yourself - obviously burning hot and not supplying fuel can't be sustainable long-term.

 

[Vinero]

First eat a lot of calories, then do the caffeine/aspirin combo.
Eating 1200 calories a day is starvation. There have been studies were giving people only 1500 calories a day would make them completely hypothyroid and cold, moody, depressed etc.
Don't take large amounts of caffeine, aspirin, or other metabolism booster if you aren't even eating enough protein, carbs, and calories to sustain a normal metabolic rate.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

To be clear. I am consuming 2300 calories on the days I am not decoupling... those days I reach a 98.6 and have normal appetite. As soon as my temp goes over 99 my appetite seems to be half of the normal level. When decoupled if I force myself to eat beyond appetite my temperature drops back to 98.6.

 

[Vinero]

I think 2300 calories is still too low. Aim for at least 3000 calories a day. You need protein, carbs and calories to make metabolic uncouplers work.
Food is more important than supplements. Food will Always be number One. Only in a well-fed state will stimulating the metabolic rate make sense.
Losing your appetite is a classical symptom of high stress hormones.
When I take coffee and aspirin after a big meal I get warm and sleepy.

 

[MrThyroid]

To be clear. I am consuming 2300 calories on the days I am not decoupling... those days I reach a 98.6 and have normal appetite. As soon as my temp goes over 99 my appetite seems to be half of the normal level. When decoupled if I force myself to eat beyond appetite my temperature drops back to 98.6.

help me to try understand why you opened the thread , because i think i still dont understand to 100 % why you opened.
On the one hand you write that everything is perfect you loosing fat have high temp etc. on coupling days. On the other hand you feel bad about because you have low appetite etc. .
I can say to 100 % that it is normal to feel low appetite on uncoupling/stimulants, because they surpress the hunger and also like you mention you re feeling warm burning fat.
So just keep the thing up, the only thing i would worry about is to dont get enough vitamin e and in general to get enough micronutrients while you burning fat in this low calorie days.
When you reached your prefered weight then you can start go up again with calories

 

[Captain_Coconut]

help me to try understand why you opened the thread , because i think i still dont understand to 100 % why you opened.
On the one hand you write that everything is perfect you loosing fat have high temp etc. on coupling days. On the other hand you feel bad about because you have low appetite etc. .
I can say to 100 % that it is normal to feel low appetite on uncoupling/stimulants, because they surpress the hunger and also like you mention you re feeling warm burning fat.
So just keep the thing up, the only thing i would worry about is to dont get enough vitamin e and in general to get enough micronutrients while you burning fat in this low calorie days.
When you reached your prefered weight then you can start go up again with calories

Thanks for the tips. It is actually too soon to say if the decoupling is causing any fat loss, though I suspect it is. I opened the thread to see what this forum with all of it's knowledgeable members had to say on the subject, to hear what their experiences have been with caffeine and aspirin to get above 99 fahrenheit, and to hear opinions on caloric intake vs body temperature while decoupling. I am very new to this, I haven't done anything like this before and I could not find many detailed accounts here from members sharing their experiences with decoupling, so I decided to ask. Caffeine and sometimes tyrosine are the only stimulants I have routinely used - but never explicitly to raise metabolism - more for alertness. So far I'm assuming decoupling this way (in moderation) is not very dangerous as I have not felt any real crash, but it seems too good to be true, so I would like to hear more anecdotal success / failure accounts if possible, out of due diligence.

 

[Wagner83]

@Captain_Coconut Were you inspired by a joyful and easy bowel movement when you picked your avatar?

 

[Captain_Coconut]

@Captain_Coconut Were you inspired by a joyful and easy bowel movement when you picked your avatar?

Absolutely.

 

[stevrd]

Hey everyone. Just to speak from my experience, and following some of Steve Richfield's work, along with reading the literature involving heat and central/peripheral nervous system, hormones, etc. If you are able to warm yourself up by taking hot showers, wearing long underwear/warm clothes, eating hot foods, drinking hot liquids, etc, your calorie requirement for thermogenesis is lower, and thus the amount of aspirin needed for uncoupling is lower as well. To put it another way, the body uses adrenaline/cortisol simply to try to maintain a homeostatic body temperature. Obviously this is not a good thing as it is a sympathetic nervous system response, which opposes the anabolic hormones, uncoupling proteins. But by supporting your central and peripheral nervous system, by any means necessary for keeping yourself warm, you lower the sympathetic response, if not completely halt it, and thus prevent things that block uncoupling proteins. You still need plenty of calories and protein, but not nearly as much.

I think controlling ambient temperatures, wearing warm clothes, eating only hot food/beverage, is one thing that the Peat community is missing. Peat has always said it himself, that if something increases body temperature it is a good thing. Think about the pig study, where pigs wore sweaters and their adipose tissue became more saturated.

This goes along with thyroid requirements as well. People need more thyroid in the winter because cold is a stress and to combat the subsequent adrenaline/noradrenaline/cortisol, more thyroid is needed. But this is not the case if we wear warm clothes, take hot baths, eat warm food, drink warm beverages etc. If we are doing all these things, less thyroid is needed, or not even any at all. Just food for thought.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Hi stevrd, that is a lot to take in for me all at once, interesting things to contemplate. To kind of hijack my own thread here, and add to what you wrote about ambient heat and calorie requirement / thermogenesis; I have always noticed a very subdued appetite when out on the beach during the day in the summer, I usually just want to lightly snack and will naturally feel inclined to have a medium breakfast and large dinner (cooling off indoors and when the sun is not at it's fullest).... The decoupling feeling isn't all the different from the beach analogy, I feel warm and happy like at the beach, not that hungry, hunger appears later when my temp drops.

 

[Vinero]

Hey everyone. Just to speak from my experience, and following some of Steve Richfield's work, along with reading the literature involving heat and central/peripheral nervous system, hormones, etc. If you are able to warm yourself up by taking hot showers, wearing long underwear/warm clothes, eating hot foods, drinking hot liquids, etc, your calorie requirement for thermogenesis is lower, and thus the amount of aspirin needed for uncoupling is lower as well. To put it another way, the body uses adrenaline/cortisol simply to try to maintain a homeostatic body temperature. Obviously this is not a good thing as it is a sympathetic nervous system response, which opposes the anabolic hormones, uncoupling proteins. But by supporting your central and peripheral nervous system, by any means necessary for keeping yourself warm, you lower the sympathetic response, if not completely halt it, and thus prevent things that block uncoupling proteins. You still need plenty of calories and protein, but not nearly as much.

I think controlling ambient temperatures, wearing warm clothes, eating only hot food/beverage, is one thing that the Peat community is missing. Peat has always said it himself, that if something increases body temperature it is a good thing. Think about the pig study, where pigs wore sweaters and their adipose tissue became more saturated.

This goes along with thyroid requirements as well. People need more thyroid in the winter because cold is a stress and to combat the subsequent adrenaline/noradrenaline/cortisol, more thyroid is needed. But this is not the case if we wear warm clothes, take hot baths, eat warm food, drink warm beverages etc. If we are doing all these things, less thyroid is needed, or not even any at all. Just food for thought.

Making sure you keep your temperature up is indeed very important, as Peat says here:

"Generally, people whose temperature (measured by an oral
thermometer) is below normal or whose thyroid function is low are likely
to have high estrogen and low progesterone. (Low temperature
stimulates the ovaries to produce excess estrogen, and retards the liver's
ability to excrete it.) A deficiency of protein and B vitamins can make it
impossible for your liver to excrete estrogen, leading to a chronically high
estrogen level. Excess fat tissue, especially after the age of 40 when
progesterone and thyroid may be low, is a major cause of chronically high
estrogen levels, and therefore is associated with an increased incidence of
breast and uterine cancer." Ray Peat

 

[Luckytype]

Making sure you keep your temperature up is indeed very important, as Peat says here:

"Generally, people whose temperature (measured by an oral
thermometer) is below normal or whose thyroid function is low are likely
to have high estrogen and low progesterone. (Low temperature
stimulates the ovaries to produce excess estrogen, and retards the liver's
ability to excrete it.) A deficiency of protein and B vitamins can make it
impossible for your liver to excrete estrogen, leading to a chronically high
estrogen level. Excess fat tissue, especially after the age of 40 when
progesterone and thyroid may be low, is a major cause of chronically high
estrogen levels, and therefore is associated with an increased incidence of
breast and uterine cancer." Ray Peat

What do we think would be the male equivalent considering the absence of ovaries?

5-ar comes up to increase dht to counter higher estrogen in presense of lowered T and thyroid ....and then increased risk of prostate cancer?

 

[Vinero]

What do we think would be the male equivalent considering the absence of ovaries?

5-ar comes up to increase dht to counter higher estrogen in presense of lowered T and thyroid ....and then increased risk of prostate cancer?

The testicles are the male equivalant, since the testicles produces Testosterone, Progesterone and also Estrogen.

"Estrogen is produced in fat (Siiteri, and MacDonald, 1973, Vermeulen, 1976) which tends to increase with age, when thyroid and progesterone are deficient. The conversion of testosterone to estrogen occurs in the testicle itself, but this conversion is also inhibited by the favorable hormonal environment of youth."
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/prostate-cancer.shtml

 

[sladerunner69]

just keep do work up until you feel bad i would add some vitamin c to speed up the fatburning process

how does vit c speed up fat burning?

 

[DaveFoster]

Taking multiple grams of aspirin daily has significant risks including GI ulceration and hemorrhagic stroke (brain bleeding).

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Taking multiple grams of aspirin daily has significant risks including GI ulceration and hemorrhagic stroke (brain bleeding).

I am definitely on a high dose of aspirin, however I was using aspirin in smaller doses daily for the past couple of years, so perhaps my body has adapted. Like I mentioned before: I try to do the Uncoupling / Decoupling around 3 times a week, on those days I will take 4.5 grams. On other days I tend to take ~2 grams (1 gram upon waking, 1 before bed). I'll have 3 doses throughout the day, along with strong sugared coffee. I take animal aspirin, a scant 1/2 tsp is around 1.5 grams aspirin, I combine in hot water with a 1/2 tsp of baking soda (~3 grams). At night I take glycine. Haven't had any problems with bleeding or easy bruising (I am prone to nosebleeds). I went off aspirin and all supplements for a whole week when I was traveling just recently and was surprised to notice that my body was feeling more pain-free than before I started doing this, so despite not being on anything for pain it seems that some lasting health improvements are being made. My impression is this must be helping me heal, because when I go off the aspirin I do not feel like crap or wish I had more aspirin, in fact I feel better than I used to.

 

[Peata]

Taking multiple grams of aspirin daily has significant risks including GI ulceration and hemorrhagic stroke (brain bleeding).

What did you make of this information?

The Benefits Of Aspirin Outweigh The Bleeding Risks