December 17, 2019 - One Radio Network

[tara]

He specifically said endurance can lower metabolism by way of affecting the thyroid.

Of course.

He then went on however to say some endurance athletes probably have an adaptation that makes their tissues more resistant to forming the “wasteful lactic acid”. i don’t think he was promoting it simply saying how they manage to do it

Ah - runners being more likely to have this adaptation, not running causing it.

 

[yerrag]

@tara @yerrag

He specifically said endurance can lower metabolism by way of affecting the thyroid.
He then went on however to say some endurance athletes probably have an adaptation that makes their tissues more resistant to forming the “wasteful lactic acid”. i don’t think he was promoting it simply saying how they manage to do it. I can see the confusion however because right after he said coffee can produce a similar effect almost like he was equating coffee to endurance

Q: Athletes often have low pulse and sub-optimal thyroid function. I was a recreational athlete but I did a run- a full marathon in my youth. Pulse was always around 60 even though my body temp- dawn was always 97.6, rises to 98 during the day, and I breathe 5-6 times per min. So I'm wondering despite adequate temp the pulse could be related to consuming fewer breaths per minute than the average person.

Ray goes on to answer , as you just recounted.

Ray does not answer if the pulse is related to consuming fewer breaths, but confirms that endurance sports can lower metabolism.

He could have confirmed that the lower pulse is related to lower breathing rate, as the person already knows he has sub-optimal thyroid from his history.

But he then goes to talk about endurance athletes having the adaptation where tissues produce less lactic acid, and in this context, calls it more efficient.

I can relate lower metabolism to lower breathing rate, as less oxygen is needed with lower metabolism. But I can't relate higher efficiency to lower breathing rate, as, as I understand it, higher tissue oxygenation is needed to prevent lactic acid buildup due to anaerobic glycolysis. There is a need for higher breathing rate- to keep oxygen supply sufficient to prevent lactic acid buildup.

If the questioner is a newbie, he could easily get confused with Ray's answer.

Of course.

Ah - runners being more likely to have this adaptation, not running causing it.

I think that's what runners do?

 

[tara]

I think that's what runners do?

I mean that people who run a lot are generally self-selecting. People who happen to have inherited a variation that makes it easier for them are more likely to do it. That doesn't indicate that running (or other endurance activity) would have this effect for everybody.
That is, efficiency may cause running, not running causes efficiency.

 

[yerrag]

I mean that people who run a lot are generally self-selecting. People who happen to have inherited a variation that makes it easier for them are more likely to do it. That doesn't indicate that running (or other endurance activity) would have this effect for everybody.
That is, efficiency may cause running, not running causes efficiency.

I see your point.

But I'm not so sure about efficiency being built-in. I would agree though that there is a pre-requisite to long distance running- a very good supply of oxygen, and enough carbon dioxide. And certainly good thyroid and no deficiencies in nutrients and endogenous enzymes to enable oxidative metabolism. Then a lot of training to build the ability to run long distances. Perhaps what Ray considers efficiency has a lot to do with developing a strong heart as well, as the heart delivers oxygen to the tissues, and the more efficient the heart is, the less likely oxygen would run out, and the less likely lactic acid is produced and built up.

 

[gaze]

it does bring about the question that maybe one should aim for lowest possible pulse while maintaining adequate waking temperatures and tsh. I think olympic athletes are capable of this because of the thousands of calories they’re eating, but the average joe who thinks endurance is healthy and doesn’t eat 6000 calories to support it is where problems arrise with lactic acid and low metabolism. I agree ray did leave it quite open ended

 

[tara]

I guess I should listen to him before speculating any more about what he meant. :)

 

[Inaut]

Tacos or turkey...???

I love how that has become the most important part of the interview

 

[raypeatclips]

 

[yerrag]

Didn't Ray ever say poor thyroid leads to heavy buildup of earwax?

 

[gaze]

Didn't Ray ever say poor thyroid leads to heavy buildup of earwax?

in this podcast specifically?

 

[yerrag]

in this podcast specifically?

No, but he was testing his listeners in this forum in this podcast lol

 

[postman]

The mystery has been solved!

 

[Lynne]

I was happy to hear him finally clear up the arguments about how much fat he thinks is ideal, ie, not much, even of the 'good fats'..

 

[boris]

[...]
I'm more surprised about the starch factor, with how much he rags on it
[...]

I never understand why people say that. He says to avoid starch if you have gut problems or can't handle them for other reasons.



Peat quotes on starch:

That is just Rob Turner's biased compilation which is three years old. He should update that list with Peat's recent comments in the clips I posted above, the "if a person has healthy digestion" clip and also the clip about "getting as much sugar and starch in the diet".

He also left these ones out:

"Until your metabolic rate is higher, 80 to 100 grams would be better. Replacing it with sugar, or very well cooked starch, would support thyroid function."

"Potatoes are the only vegetable protein which is of quality equal to egg yolk. It's actually a little higher in quality because it contains precursors to the essential amino acids; it has more protein in effect than it actually has in substance. And people misjudge potatoes because they are given as 2 to 4%, because wet potatoes are measured, where beans are measured in the dry state and have 40% protein, but...you have to divide the bean protein by 10 to make it equivalent to potatoes."

“Two pounds of well-cooked mashed potato has the protein value similar to a liter of milk, about 33 grams of protein. A person would be able to live for a long time on two or three liters of either milk or 4-6 pounds of potatoes per day. The milk drinker would eventually need to supplement iron, the potato eaters would need to supplement vitamin A, possibly B12, but both of them are nearly perfect foods.”

Narouz asks: "How many grams of cooked starchy food(old potatoes,plantains) do you think is safe in the diet?"

"There isn't enough information to judge, but a fair part of the carbohydrate should be in the form of sucrose, fructose, and/or lactose. If it's well cooked, and eaten with butter, it's probably safe for many people."

"If you don't get much sunlight, and during the winter, a vitamin D supplement is necessary to use the calcium effectively. Plain white rice, well cooked, with butter is o.k. The calcium, vitamin D and vitamin A will greatly improve your immunity,the colostrum wouldn't be necessary."

"Masa harina (best), white rice or oats, and brown rice. The phytic acid in the oats block absorption of much of the calcium; cooking the oats much longer than usual might improve its nutritional value."

tca300 asks: "I'm going to be moving to an area that doesn't have any good animal proteins, do you think replacing animal protein with potatoes would work because of their keto acid content? Thank you very much!"

"Yes, people in New Guinea who eat nothing but potatoes for 51 weeks of the year (and pork the other week) have been studied and found to be healthy with no signs of protein deficiency."

_

I understand the point of Rob's article. The point is "concerns with starches" but it would be better named "potential concerns." It's too one way and doesn't emphasize the individual context enough. It's biased because in #3 on that list it focuses on painting starch as fattening because of insulin but not also mentioning the effects of dietary fat and not emphasizing the insulinogenic effect of protein as well. Like this quote on milk from one of the EastWest shows, Peat says "if you're gaining inches instead of muscle," (meaning inches on your waist as in your belly is getting bigger), "then you're probably eating too much fat and overall calories." He didn't say "you're probably eating too much starch." And he then goes on to say the "I've mentioned at times quote." So in that context he's not talking about pufa fat, he's talking about dairy fat. Not to mention the numerous other quotes on butter and cream I've posted. Saturated fat can be fattening too. It's all about context, right? Well don't forget the fat and assume that everyone is eating low fat, which is a crazy assumption. What I mean by that is don't just assume that a fat person who has insulin problems is only in that state because of starch.

It's also unscientific to use raw starch and animals that do not naturally cook starch in their native diet and do not secrete as much amylase as us as evidence for well cooked (which is really just normally cooked because no one eats raw starch) causing problems in humans. I know Peat wrote about those experiments about raw starch but to take those writings and apply them to a cooked human context is odd.

Rob also writes a lot about the negative effects of a "vegetarian" diet while ignoring that Peat's own personal diet is vegetarian by definition: “Daily - milk, fruit (mainly orange juice), eggs, butter, cheese, and coffee.” The occasional liver, oxtail, and pork rinds, are occasional. And those are unique foods. They're not muscle meats. The traditional term vegetarian originally meant one who consumes a diet based on milk, cheese, and fruit. Not a "vegetable" eater. The context here is that someone like Ray sees the intelligence in not eating meat, as in muscle meat, everyday, as opposed to the masses who think that one must eat muscle meats 3 times a day. They are inflammatory, contain too much iron, and cause too many problems when over consumed. Ray has said that muscle meats "turn off the thyroid gland." That's not to say they offer nothing. One may very well need the heme iron from red meat. No, we are not herbivores and we do not have a rumen, but we are also not carnivores, we're omnivores who cook our food and that food includes cooked starch and cooked plants and cooked meat. We cook meat not just to kill bacteria but to make it more digestible, contrary to what raw meat eaters claim. There is evidence that the protein in eggs is better absorbed from cooked eggs. So it's biased to love cooked meat and cooked eggs but hate cooked starch and cooked leaves and blame the cooked versions instead of solely the raw versions. No s*it they have to be cooked, that's obivous. So does meat and so do eggs. Fruit is really the only true raw food for humans. It's biased to think cooked greens and non-fried starch is contributing to the top killers of heart disease, hypertension, cancer etc.



No it is not because the claim that "because of their glycemia, starches tend to cause blood sugar dysregulation compared to fructose and sugar (sucrose)," is simply not true. One's FFA status is going to be the primary factory in this.

He says "Well-cooked below-ground vegetables, masa harina, and hominy are some of the best starches to consume." That's contradicting to say in that article because of everything else said. He says "Gauge your individual reaction to starches vs. sugar," something that should be clear in the article but the entire article makes it seem as though they all must be avoided for everyone. One thing that needs to be emphasized is that not everyone does well with lactose and fructose/sucrose as their main carbohydrate sources. And not everyone achieves satiation with those sources and without starch. This is important. Starch warms many people up in ways that the other sugars don't. So one could be left clueless if lactose and sucrose don't work for them after reading that article. They won't know what to do because starch is painted as so bad.

.

He says "Well-cooked below-ground vegetables, masa harina, and hominy are some of the best starches to consume." That's contradicting to say in that article because of everything else said. He says "Gauge your individual reaction to starches vs. sugar," something that should be clear in the article but the entire article makes it seem as though they all must be avoided for everyone. One thing that needs to be emphasized is that not everyone does well with lactose and fructose/sucrose as their main carbohydrate sources. And not everyone achieves satiation with those sources and without starch. This is important. Starch warms many people up in ways that the other sugars don't. So one could be left clueless if lactose and sucrose don't work for them after reading that article. They won't know what to do because starch is painted as so bad.

 

[Lord Cola]

I was happy to hear him finally clear up the arguments about how much fat he thinks is ideal, ie, not much, even of the 'good fats'..

Does he say this? I thought he was cautioning about PUFA in mostly saturated fat sources like butter.

 

[schultz]

Tacos made with masa harina nixtamalizada will have most of the toxins neutralized. The protein is made more readily available to the body and the B vitamins get "activated" by the nixtamalization process. Frying in coconut oil will displace some of the pufa.

You can make tortillas with degermed corn, meaning the fat content is less than half of that of whole corn. But most masa harina products I've seen use whole grain corn...

The fat is saponified in the process of boiling the corn in lime and then discarded.

 

[postman]

The fat is saponified in the process of boiling the corn in lime and then discarded.

Source for this statement? All the masa harinas I've seen have a ton of fat.

 

[postman]

I never understand why people say that. He says to avoid starch if you have gut problems or can't handle them for other reasons.



Peat quotes on starch:

Nice. But who is this Rob guy? I don't agree with him on raw meat and from what I've read neither does Ray.

 

[schultz]

Source for this statement? All the masa harinas I've seen have a ton of fat.

That's how soap is made.

I don't know which masa harina products you've seen, or how they are manufactured, but they may not list the nutritional information accurately (it may reflect the whole corn pre-alkali treatment) or they may not produce the product in an ideal way (they speed it up, for example, to produce flour more quickly). The amount of saponification that takes place depends on the amount of lime or lye that is used, how long the solution is cooked and the amount of time the corn is left to steep. Something that the researchers who study the effects of nixtamalization may not take into consideration is the type of corn used. Different varieties have different characteristics that will affect the process, like the hardness of the endosperm. Dent corn, which is a more modern variety, would need to steep longer than something like one of the traditional flint corn varieties. I am guessing most companies that manufacture masa harina flour would use some variety of dent corn as it is more common and cheaper. Dent corn would not have been used traditionally as it was only 'invented' in the mid 1800's whereas flint varieties have been around for 1000's of years.

Interestingly calcium prevents the formation of acrylamide, so if the flour is made in such a way as to provide a high calcium content then tortilla chips made from this flour would contain significantly less acrylamide than tortilla chips made from a low calcium flour.

 

[boris]

Very interesting @schultz thanks for the info!
@postman no idea who this Rob guy is